It's one thing when companies agree to fix prices, but is agreeing to not do something--recruit each other's employees--really that bad? As long as employees are free to interview elsewhere and aren't rejected because of their current employers, I don't really mind this.
@sample032: Sure this is that bad: they're agreeing that nobody's going to make you a better offer than your current crappy salary. If you're a star engineer working for Google, this means that there's no chance that Apple will offer you a million bucks and a promotion to jump ship.
@sample032: And who's to tell if the offer was solicited or not?
That's the problem with a 'gentleman's agreement'. Since you already know you're doing something shady, you have no way of knowing that your counterparty isn't being even more shady by 'only' hiring people who they 'say' approached them.
In fact, the only way an agreement like this will stick is if there's no (or virtually no) movement between the companies.
Unfortunately for the companies, this stuff is matter of very accessible record (as in tax records) so it shouldn't be too hard for the Feds to see if there was not only an unusually low amount of cross-hiring, but also the date at which that phenomena started, how quickly it became the norm, and if there have been any significant lapses along the way.
For companies that are all about search, tech, and data, these seems like extraordinarily dumb moves.
Reminder: being aggressively stupid counts as evil. Sorry, but it's true.
Once again, the Obama campaign did a lot of tough talk during the campaign and now find themselves hard pressed to turn those words into (substantive) action.
Might there be some collusion in this area? Sure. Is there likely to be a paper (or e-mail) trail no. Is it likely that some third, smaller, upcoming company is harmed by this in any way? No. In fact I'd say the smaller companies are blessed by the fact that these has-beens are doing all their job-hopping among the majors, dragging them down with their big salaries and small, re-cycled ideas.
There are so many ways that big business present a barrier to competition from smaller ones it could fill and encyclopedia. Instead they go after something nobody cares much about. In fact, any DOJ action in this area is sure to be a benefit to the Googles and Microsofts of this world.
We DO know that the DoJ and other agencies can't account for millions of dollars they spend each year. How about a scaled back accounting, just for IT expenditures:
(1) Every IT dollar spent on major vendors: IBM, Microsoft, Google, and the major Beltway bandits (they don't call them that for nothin').
(2) Publish the minutes (or best approximation) of every meeting DoJ purchasing people had with these vendors on pricing issues, delivery problems, etc., so that we can see exactly how you negotiate with these monopolies on purchases that taxpayers bear the brunt of.
I guarantee you if you can put enough information out there you won't have to pay anyone to track down problems with your own budget. And pairing back monopoly companies abuse of government spending will go a long way toward pairing back the monopoly power these companies have.
It gets worse in H2-B (non-agricultural worker visas) and H2-A (argo). The rubes are petitioning the DOL to change the rules so that these visa applications are nameless -- in other words not assigned to specific people. As it is these visas are bartered and traded before the workers arrive. And placement agencies are allowed to petition for these visas. Nameless visas would further turn these people into commodities. YAY!
PS: The Department of Homeland security will not disclose H visa information, such as how many applications were approved, nor will it provide the public copies of the forms businesses submit to apply for foreign temps. These are public information, and I am waiting to see if Obama will release this information. The Southern Poverty Law Center has been trying to get the DHS to divulge more of these public docs for years.
And find out who in your city has applied for foreign temps in nice big downloadable XLS files, but the DHS (which actually issues these visas) has the data of how many of these approved applications resulted in visas issued.
@sample032: For some reason the DHS denies these requests. I believe the Southern Poverty law Center is in the process of demanding the DHS provide the forms employers fill out to get the visas. As it is: you can only see who has petitioned for workers (including lots of juicy info like names and addresses at the aforementioned FLCDataCetner website) but the actual visa issuance comes from DHS -- which has blocked lawyers' requests for details about who actually gets how many visas, names of workers (which would be unavailable if the rubes win the lobby for nameless visas), salary paid, etc. Basically, it's very hard to find out who out of the overwhelming number of petitions for foreign temps actually gets the limited number of visas available. Not sure what the quota is for H1 but for H2-B it's 66,000 visas a year (with post-Katrina -- the Gulf needed lots of welders to fix our rigs and other reconstruction gigs -- exemptions that greatly increased the annual number in 2005-2007). I don't think there's a quota for H2-A (agricultural workers). Not sure what the quota is for the H1 visa category (technical high-education jobs). Frankly, I think the "creative class" should be expected to complete globally to some degree. But for the H2 category: there's no reason why we need foreign workers for landscaping, welding, pipefitting, hotel housekeepers, etc. An augment could be made that if we're going to give Free-Trade status to countries (like Mexico) for some categories (like the seafood industry) then our businesses have a right to recruit labor form those countries -- but in America nobody give a shit about that -- all they want is cheap shrimp casserole.
There is also the pernicious tendency of tech firms to take on H1-B workers, whose visa status is tied to a particular job, which makes them more vulnerable to abuse and easier to underpay than citizens or green card holders. It's hard to believe the tech execs' poor-mouthing about the paucity of quality workers already here once you know some of the tech layoff stories of 2000 and 2001.
06/04/09
06/04/09
06/04/09
06/04/09
That's the problem with a 'gentleman's agreement'. Since you already know you're doing something shady, you have no way of knowing that your counterparty isn't being even more shady by 'only' hiring people who they 'say' approached them.
In fact, the only way an agreement like this will stick is if there's no (or virtually no) movement between the companies.
Unfortunately for the companies, this stuff is matter of very accessible record (as in tax records) so it shouldn't be too hard for the Feds to see if there was not only an unusually low amount of cross-hiring, but also the date at which that phenomena started, how quickly it became the norm, and if there have been any significant lapses along the way.
For companies that are all about search, tech, and data, these seems like extraordinarily dumb moves.
Reminder: being aggressively stupid counts as evil. Sorry, but it's true.
06/03/09
Once again, the Obama campaign did a lot of tough talk during the campaign and now find themselves hard pressed to turn those words into (substantive) action.
Might there be some collusion in this area? Sure. Is there likely to be a paper (or e-mail) trail no. Is it likely that some third, smaller, upcoming company is harmed by this in any way? No. In fact I'd say the smaller companies are blessed by the fact that these has-beens are doing all their job-hopping among the majors, dragging them down with their big salaries and small, re-cycled ideas.
There are so many ways that big business present a barrier to competition from smaller ones it could fill and encyclopedia. Instead they go after something nobody cares much about. In fact, any DOJ action in this area is sure to be a benefit to the Googles and Microsofts of this world.
We DO know that the DoJ and other agencies can't account for millions of dollars they spend each year. How about a scaled back accounting, just for IT expenditures:
(1) Every IT dollar spent on major vendors: IBM, Microsoft, Google, and the major Beltway bandits (they don't call them that for nothin').
(2) Publish the minutes (or best approximation) of every meeting DoJ purchasing people had with these vendors on pricing issues, delivery problems, etc., so that we can see exactly how you negotiate with these monopolies on purchases that taxpayers bear the brunt of.
I guarantee you if you can put enough information out there you won't have to pay anyone to track down problems with your own budget. And pairing back monopoly companies abuse of government spending will go a long way toward pairing back the monopoly power these companies have.
I dare ya.
06/03/09
PS: The Department of Homeland security will not disclose H visa information, such as how many applications were approved, nor will it provide the public copies of the forms businesses submit to apply for foreign temps. These are public information, and I am waiting to see if Obama will release this information. The Southern Poverty Law Center has been trying to get the DHS to divulge more of these public docs for years.
You can go to FLCDataCenter.com: [www.flcdatacenter.com]
And find out who in your city has applied for foreign temps in nice big downloadable XLS files, but the DHS (which actually issues these visas) has the data of how many of these approved applications resulted in visas issued.
06/03/09
06/03/09
06/03/09