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manchops
04:20 PM

In reply to James Lipton Sez: No Dick Pics
I'm having trouble believing James Lipton has ever been "asked" for a photo of his genetalia...
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BookishLookish
04:08 PM

In reply to James Lipton Sez: No Dick Pics
Sagacious-hilarious. Bravo.
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senatormayer
04:08 PM

In reply to James Lipton Sez: No Dick Pics
I have always loved James Lipton. I fell out of my chair when he started making cat noises.
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iplaudius
03:46 PM

In reply to James Lipton Sez: No Dick Pics
From James Lipton in the Intimate Spaces of Thirteen-Year-Olds: A Series.
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yourfriendandneighbor
03:32 PM

In reply to James Lipton Sez: No Dick Pics
taking his beard off is genius.
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Mrs. Beeton
02:39 PM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
One of the best Christmas gifts I ever received was The God Delusion, from a Catholic. Giving gifts you know the recipient will enjoy trumps all dogma, regardless of the source. Score one for the god of presents!
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BookishLookish
02:14 PM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
Jeffrey Dahmer was a humanist, he liked to eat on humans. Was that the joke?
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lionel-mandrake
01:02 PM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
This is a little OT, but here goes...

I've been under the impression that money-lending (especially of the interest-charging kind) was a big no-no, historically speaking, for the more devout Christian types.

If this is the case, why are so many evangelicals and born-agains so supportive of the American economic system? Especially since our system relies on various forms of interest-based lending that by even the most lenient definition would be called usurious.

The prohibitions against usury, please correct me if I'm wrong, are pretty far up the mortal sin ladder. It isn't one of "oh, you can only collect six goats in payment if your wife gets trampled by the neighbor's herd", anachronistic to the modern era, kind of things. Am I wrong about this? I'm too lazy to look it up.
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flavorflav
01:17 PM

@lionel-mandrake: Equally OT reply: The main cathedral in Quito, Ecuador has a giant mural depicting hell and the many terrible things that befall sinners sent to hell. The sin was listed next to people who were being stabbed, burned, impaled, disemboweled, or eaten. One of those sins was usury.
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Julio Esquivel
01:20 PM

@lionel-mandrake: No, you're pretty much on "the money," there. Usury had always been considered a sin, but like most religious beliefs, they don't usually fit with economic interests, no pun intended.

It's funny, because for religious belief, it HAS to be one thing or the other when it comes to sins, but it never ends up that way. Although, as far as Abrahamic beliefs go, I think the Jewish faith has an easier time dealing with usury, as it's a varied affair in what's tolerable.

I guess, in the end, as long as you're still willing and able to judge others and proclaim them sinners, on behalf of your god, then you'll be fine. They're just hoping that their god is winking back. Unfortunately for them, it's just the flickering of a distant star.
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lionel-mandrake promoted this comment Edited by Julio Esquivel at 12/02/09 1:25 PM Julio Esquivel was starred Julio Esquivel was unstarred

BadUncle
01:23 PM

@lionel-mandrake: Before Ronald Reagan aligned the GOP with the evangelicals, there was a strong tradition of populist labor and farm politics in the Bible Belt.
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
01:39 PM

@lionel-mandrake: Yeah, Dante put the usurers in the same circle of Hell as the sodomites. And it was pretty strongly support for a while, which is why medieval Jews were historically the only moneylenders--for the Jews, it was immoral to take an unfairly high interest, while for Christians it was immoral to take any.

Why this one fell to the wayside and homosexuality didn't probably had to do with the fact that moneylending is a really good way to make a lot of money, and rich people traditionally get to make the laws.
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lizdexia
01:43 PM

@lionel-mandrake: The concept of usuary has somewhat evolved over the centuries (at least in Catholic-speak). My understanding is that usuary used to be defined as chargin any interest at all on a loan. In ancient economies, there really wasn't a very good way to generate wealth. Most people engaged in subsistance agriculture, trade or whatever, so giving back a loan plus was a serious harship. As economies have modernized and it's possible to not only produce goods and services but also to generate wealthy, usuary has been redefined to mean 'exhorbitant interest".

Related, there's a good piece in this month's Atlantic about prosperity gospel and it's role in the economic collapse.
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Trai_Dep
01:50 PM

@lionel-mandrake: As interestingly, I still marvel how many Conservatives rally around an impoverished rag-head of Middle Eastern descent who advocates struggle against the wealthy and powerful... AND routinely used witchcraft to achieve His goals.
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lionel-mandrake
01:57 PM

@lizdexia: My understanding though, is that the easing of those restrictions has been a fairly recent thing, like the last five centuries or so. Furthermore, that prohibitions against usury, and the wages extracted for such sins, are fairly unvarnished in their language, and have been pretty literal in definition since day one. This would make usury much more clearly a sin than some other, more actively debated points of contemporary dogma (like abortion or the morality of war).
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Spy from the Land of Rainpeople
02:03 PM

@lionel-mandrake: I did it for you on Wikipedia.

Here's the prohibition encyclica:
[en.wikipedia.org]

And here is the common way around it:
[en.wikipedia.org]
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lionel-mandrake promoted this comment

ms_priestypants
02:09 PM

@lionel-mandrake: You know that Onion article "Area Man Passionate Defender of What He Imagines Consititution To Be"? This is sort of like that.
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lizdexia
02:12 PM

@lionel-mandrake: Oh, it's definitely a new(ish) position. And I completely agree that the churches are failing by not calling out economic systems, especially with respect to how they oppress the poor. If you listen to religious blowhards these days, you'd think they Bible was 30% about abortion, 30% about teh iky gehyz, 20% about everyone one else's sex life, and a little left to fight over who's crazy ideas of morality are more godly.

Apparently sex is just more interesting than social justice.
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Lysergic Asset
02:26 PM

@braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.: You are, as usual, completely correct. Awesome insight.
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Lysergic Asset
02:29 PM

@braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.: Also: too bad no one figured out a way to make huge amounts of money off homosexuality in Dante's day.
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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
03:09 PM

@Julio Esquivel: Money lending was one of the few professions European Jews were allowed to work in, by the Christian village rulers.
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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
03:10 PM

@braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.: And what about the lobster and the pork?
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
03:19 PM

@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: Replacement theology.
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Spirit Fingers
12:48 PM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
Scientology is probably quite miffed that the atheists' recruitment tactics are far simpler and have nothing to do with the, "Bring in a new member and get a card key to Beta 7, plus free enrollment to the beef of the month club" pyramid scheme the Dianetics Sleestack monsters say is the next best thing to Jesus.
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pheiticeira
01:53 PM

@Spirit Fingers: I love you for this. You make religion seem like one big game a la Super Mario Bros.
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westward ho
03:04 PM

@Spirit Fingers: This is the Comment of the Day, as determined by me.
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Spirit Fingers promoted this comment Edited by westward ho at 12/02/09 3:05 PM westward ho was starred westward ho was unstarred

Spirit Fingers
03:13 PM

Danke Schoen.
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BookishLookish
12:19 PM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
Hey, I'm a Reform Jewess and therefore a stone cultural agnostic, but if this campaign means one less "Jesus Is the Reason for the Season!" sign, one less Horrendous Christmas Sweater burning my eyes, and one less smarmy "You have a blessed day!" uttered at me from the checkout line at Target Greatland, I say bravo.
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Edited by BookishLookish at 12/02/09 12:20 PM BookishLookish was starred BookishLookish was unstarred

Looker
12:46 PM

@BookishLookish: The "You have a blessed day" is the worst.
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RheaPollstry
12:48 PM

@BookishLookish: I love it when you use the term Jewess. Reminds me of Gilda Radner's parody commercial for Jewess Jeans. Wish I could find it on the youtubes.
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BookishLookish
12:59 PM

@Looker: My husband gets so embarrassed because I give them a seriously evil look that basically says, "You do not have the power to bless me. You do not even have the power to amuse me," aka European Bitchface (TM).
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Edited by BookishLookish at 12/02/09 1:00 PM BookishLookish was starred BookishLookish was unstarred

BookishLookish
01:00 PM

@RheaPollstry: I like the "ess" endings that have fallen out of fashion.
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Buttafooco
01:11 PM

@RheaPollstry:
[www.break.com]
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RheaPollstry
01:24 PM

@Buttafooco: I SO heart Gilda Radner! Thanks!
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Buttafooco
01:26 PM

@RheaPollstry: I may be in the minority but I still believe in Father Christmas. Enjoy!
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BookishLookish
02:42 PM

@RheaPollstry: "Guaranteed to ride up." LULZ
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Lysergic Asset
11:57 AM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
I think this is the best 2-1/2 minutes on this topic (religion vs. no religion).
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restless
12:19 PM

@Lysergic Asset: Hearted. This rules.
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mfnher
12:23 PM

@Lysergic Asset: Love!
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Lysergic Asset
12:27 PM

@restless: I found it yesterday and I cannot stop posting it or forwarding it. It's like: You cannot argue with this, people!
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gabbo
12:59 PM

@Lysergic Asset: nice video, but let's give Plato & Socrates some credit where credit's due. in the euthyphro, Socrates points out: "Is the pious loved by gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?" If the former, then who needs the gods? If the latter, how does that work? Can gods make any old thing pious?
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Lysergic Asset
01:07 PM

@gabbo: Thanks for the infusion of erudition - it's always welcome!
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Benny
04:16 PM

@Lysergic Asset: Well, I mean you can argue with it, really. You can argue that literal Hell doesn't exist, so it's irrelevant. You can also argue that the modern concept of Hell has more to do with medieval traditions than the gospels, which make hardly any references to Hell at all, and do so in such a way as to denote the ungodly, uncharitable life through metaphor in the vaguest possible way.
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AzureTexan
11:55 AM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
Historical Fact: The Three Wise Men were bearing the gifts of lold, common sense and mirth.
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mfnher
11:54 AM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
I'm an atheist who has no use for Christmas. My husband and I like to go to Vegas over the holiday. The hotel rooms are cheap, and there are great spa deals. Also, we're often the only Americans. We get extra attention from croupiers because we are the only ones who tip.
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Tremonius
12:01 PM

@mfnher: And why does an Atheist tip? For even better service next time. In other words, to store up goods in heaven. You cannot escape.

These days, you'll apparently be the only ones on your whole floor, and not because everyone else has the holies.
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DahlELama
12:20 PM

@mfnher: Being a Jew with no use for Christmas works too. Man, is New Orleans cheap that time of year!
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AzureTexan
12:24 PM

@mfnher: For me it's a little different. I'm as devout an atheist as there is, but I still enjoy Christmas. It gives the warm yuletide fuzzies I had as a kid, and it's the one time I don't mind Christian music, as long as it's in rockin' carol form, ala Andy Williams. So it ain't cognitive dissonance, it's cognitive consonance, and I like it.

P.S. I have to hand it to you: Las Vegas, aka Sin City, is an awesome Christmas counterattack. Please say hello to Satyr Claus for me.
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mfnher
12:31 PM

@AzureTexan: I love all the Christmas stuff, but since it's been starting in October, I find myself pretty much over it by mid-December. @DahlELama: The funny thing is, I thought there would have been more Jewish people in Vegas there during that time, but it's actually like Persia in Sin City. They bring in a lot of the famous Persian singers to perform. My friend Hassam, his whole family goes up there every year. So, it was just my Catholic husband, WASP self, Persians, and a ton of Vietnamese. I LOVED it!
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AzureTexan
12:35 PM

@mfnher: Re the early Xmas start, I hear ya. I can't wait for next year's Fourth of Julistmas Fireworks Show.
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RollsRoyceRevenge
11:49 AM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
Evidently Humanism also has something to do with an urge to punch someone's Santa hat right off their fucking head.
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
11:55 AM

@RollsRoyceRevenge: See? Yesterday you would have hit them right in the face.

The ads are making you good!
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i'm a bottle
11:46 AM

In reply to Atheist War on Christmas Proceeding Smoothly
I don't see anyone attacking Kant for attempting to unlink religion from morality. His point was that you're crazy to think that you'll get rewarded for acting within the dictates of good conduct that you arrived at through reason. This is old news, really, and pretty much the only people who pay attention are American conservatives and Pope Benedict, both of whom are complete idiots.
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Tremonius
12:05 PM

@i'm a bottle: yeah, but Pascal said you should lay your bets with god, just in case, you know? It's like Lenny Bruce told of this scary club owner; for six months after he died the bartenders didn't steal in case it was a trick.

And somebody else said, Pascal's god must be an imbecile to accept those just there for the reward, faking it like trophy wives.

I think I have my quotes all right.
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i'm a bottle
12:42 PM

@Tremonius: I like that a lot. I've always disliked Pascal's wager, it really isn't a good reason for belief with one's whole being, especially when the odds are stacked against God's existence. He also said that there's nothing to lose for believing. That's not true, think about how much time you'll have to give up dealing with those born again assholes at week-long spirituality workshops, and then there's the hit to your personal integrity, selling your rational doubt out for a shot at eternal happiness that you know deep down probably won't come to fruition. No, just give me art, literature, friendship, great food, family and sex.
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BaconCat
12:44 PM

@Tremonius: And Voltaire countered that Pascal assumed several things:
1. that god rewards belief in him.
2. that he rewards belief made so flippantly, based on losing nothing by believing.
3. that it's a christian god.
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i'm a bottle
12:50 PM

@BaconCat: Living nowadays in the US makes you wonder whether there really was an Enlightenment. You could argue that the nation as a whole is a result of Enlightenment principles, but even that historical truth has been systematically destroyed by The Idiots.
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Edited by i'm a bottle at 12/02/09 12:50 PM i'm a bottle was starred i'm a bottle was unstarred

BaconCat
12:59 PM

@i'm a bottle: Well, the world is getting more intolerant the more crowded it gets, but there's also free porn on the internet. Without the enlightenment we get no empirical method or women's freedom; without those we don't get the internet or porn with plots and dialogue.
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