Not a failure at all. You'd have to be pretty deeply involved in Beltway nonsense to see it as a failure. For me (one of those people who doesn't give a shit about the sideshow of politics), I was engaged by the rhetoric (using the word in the best sense), and informed about the vision for healthcare reform.
I'm pretty sure this presser was for people like me, and not snarky blog editors.
@Cajunboy: Agree with you 100%. Healthcare reform is so complex--we need particulars, we need details.
The Gates comments, alas, show he is immature and has poor judgment; he's impulsive. Sitting presidents do not and should not casually comment about ongoing police matters, regardless of what he thinks. He even admitted he didn't know "the facts" yet he jumped right in. That's even scarier than the generic health care blah blah blah.
@Novaload Misses Murilee: Yes, sitting Presidents offer their opinions about current events. The whole "ongoing investigation" dodge was pretty much invented by George Bush so he wouldn't have to comment on Scooter Libby, et al.
That wasn't the place to whip out the Powerpoint charts.
At the "presser" I was watching Obama discussed capping income tax deductions on the wealthy to help pay for this because he doesn't want to burden the already encumbered middle class. He also claimed his proposal would cover 2/3rds of the costs, leaving one-third to be worked out. He also cited examples, such as saying his proposal would eliminate insurance industries' freedom to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. (That's a nice detail.) Those are details I heard him mention, and I only watched 5 minutes of the speech.
Obama has been sneaky and evasive on other fronts, like breaking his promise to shut down Guantanamo. But when it comes to this I think he's probably wise not to turn his press conference into a complicated lecture about the mechanics of his national health care proposal. (And we have this wonderful thing called the Internet, where the curious can find more and more details as this issue progresses.) If he had turned his press conference into a lecture with charts, people would still find reasons to fault him. Instead of being too vague, the criticism would have been that he threw too many numbers at us.
Americans are masters of finding something to complain about in just about anything. Anything a president says or does, X% of Americans will say it's evil and wrong. He will not please everyone, but if he lowers my cost and gets rid of stupid pre-existing condition clauses in insurance contracts, he's got my support. If it means millionaires can only write off $3,000 worth of taxes instead of $6,000, I really don't care because that is not my problem.
@gawkimo: Not only that, but most of us wish we had problems like millionaires have. If I were in that top 1%, the last thing I would be worrying about is paying a couple grand extra in taxes. I would worry more about the government's ability to meet its obligations.
As much as Republicans like to claim they're on the side of small business, if that were actually true, they'd have been screaming for the sort of reform President Obama wants years ago. It would have been done, and that's that. Unfortunately, GOPers have a nasty habit of musing loudly and publicly about how things ought to be, while at the same time refusing to do anything at all that might bring that state to reality.
And I agree that the whole point of this presser was not to lay out a detailed plan, but to remind people why we want and desperately need health care reform. It was mainly to neutralize the wharrgarbl coming from the other side of the aisle that is affecting certain spineless Democratic members of Congress. That is what he did; I hope it takes.
"His opponents are using every political scare tactic in the political scare tactic playbook to win the battle for public opinion on this issue, while doing virtually nothing to offer up their own solution..."
uh, that IS their solution...also, in my opinion, the most likely outcome. to the people who "matter" (i.e. olds, riches, people with "real jobs"), healthcare for those who don't matter (poors, youngs, people who don't have "real jobs") just isn't much of a concern, from what I've seen.
You know how Bush left office with a 17% approval rating? And I looked around trying to figure out who in the hell would still actually approve of Bush?! Well, I’ve started to think that that’s going to be me for Obama. I just love the guy. (Not that I believe Obama will ever reach Bush lows – no one fucks up a country quite like Bush).
I actually thought that the press conference wasn’t a complete strike out… But an Oval Office address would have been much more effective. These Q&As need to end. I’m tired of having to see Jake Tapper go all arrogant dick mode whenever he speaks. Spare me, pls.
Yes, Obama was short on specs. And yes, I am disappointed in that. However, IMO, you're going way too far in labeling the entire thing as a failure. Obama was really not talking to liberals tonight, and he was not really intending to address the particulars of his plan.
He was primarily addressing the issue of Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats, both of whom are caving in to pressure from the insurance industry. For instance, Sen. Max Baucus, Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee is a direct beneficiary of contributions from the insurance lobby. It's not for nothing that Obama stressed that Congressmen had great health insurance. He was making it clear to the American people living in Blue Dog states that their representatives' asses were covered no matter what. Blue Dog Democrats are the people who're actually holding up healthcare reform right now, not Republicans. What Obama did tonight, by talking up his healthcare plan was to bypass the middleman, talk directly to citizens in Blue Dog states and undermine the Blue Dog Senators' efforts to sabotage healthcare reform. Specs would have helped make a better case, for sure. But the lack of them does not make his press conference a failure.
@Wrapitup: It's a beautiful, humane plan they've got. Unfortunately, it will streamline the hot money flow into the hands of the bad guys. The sweetheart deals are already printed up, just waiting for signature.
@Pinekatz: And I know when I'm on fire and should stop but on this, I can't.
I work in the medical-industrial complex and all this quibbling, bitching and posturing over politics and soundbites will stop movement forward as if our train just ran into the wall.
These are the facts: Everyone will get sick. Everyone will eventually develop a terminal process. Some are quick. Some are slow. The slow ones can be held in check, like diabetes, until a faster process takes over and the curtain closes.
We will go to doctors or to the emergency room if we don't have insurance. Medicaid (in California it is Medi-Cal) will pay for it if we're poor. If we have assets, we will lose them to save our lives. Our family members will lose right along with us.
We can pay for it now, when its cheap, as in the case of early diabetes, or we can pay for it later as in the case of amputations and dialysis for under-treated diabetes. EITHER WAY, we are all going to pay.
So, doesn't it make more sense to provide health insurance for everyone, to give patients access to professionals who will stress preventative medicine and risk modification, just like other developed nations do? Because either way and deal with the reality, you and I are going to pay.
I'm guessing that if some smart person pulls out their big calculator, and figures in lost productivity for just complications from the flu every year, it will show we have ourselves a big-ass problem.
@Wrapitup: I agree. Yes, I personally would have liked more details and specifics on the bill, but I’m a political junkie. Most people are not. The anti-reform campaigns are spreading lies about general, high-level topics – for instance, trying to scare people that they’ll lose their current plan and be forced into the public plan. These aren’t people who are following or likely interested in a deep-dive conversation on reform details. (However, most of these people probably didn’t sit through an hour of our Professor/President go on… and on at times.)
Overall, I think it’s a sad reflection on the level of discourse in our Country, but pointing out that Congress has great healthcare, emphasizing that people will still have their choice of plans & highlighting the cost of healthcare to families that they aren’t even full aware of… well, these are the points that we need to get across to the Blue Dog Dem’s constituents. Assuming that was the goal of the press conference, I don’t think it was a total failure for Obama.
@Wrapitup: Besides, he only had an hour, and 3/4 of that hour was devoted to responding to questions from reporters. That's why it's called a press conference. Have you ever been at one of those annual "open season" meetings where HR explains company benefits? That usually takes 90 minutes to two hours.
Now, if reporters were demanding details, they should have asked for them. They had a golden opportunity to do so. They had the undivided attention of the President of the United States for nearly a whole hour. When you ask this President a question, he tries to answer it thoughtfully, clearly, and thoroughly. My question to them, and to The Cajun Boy, is why did they ask the usual inane questions instead of going after the sort of details we were supposedly hoping for?
Also, I have no problem with calling out the Cambridge knucklehead. People can mouth you in their own homes, sir, there's no statute that says we have to like you. And you're a cop in Cambridge, surrounded by brilliant people of all races, nationalities and creeds. Show some fucking humility. Don't know who Henry Gates is? Fuck you. Read a fucking book.
@Mediahohoho: Also, you have to love how cops are civil servants when they're being criticized; when you deal with them in real life, they don't really see the connection.
Matt Yglesias had a really good post today about healthcare and senior citizens....
basically noting that the segment of the population that already gets government sponsored health insurance (medicare) is also the group MOST opposed to expanding healthcare coverage.
@Botswana Meat Commission FC: That's because they all live on like massive amounts of medication and doctors visits. They don't want us infringing on their phat benefitz. My 88 yr old grandmother goes to the doctor at least 3 times a week.
Here's a shocker...I was just watching Ed Shultz on MSNBC and ever he thinks Obama struck out tonight. Wow, I'm actually kind of shocked by that...didn't think there was any way he's ever turn on the president.
@Pinekatz: Hmm, sort of both. Ed was pissed that Obama was too soft (ie: not passionately tough enough) on the Blue Dogs and should have been more clear in calling them out for their obstructionist maneuverings. Further, he was upset that Obama didn't demand congress give up their vacay.
If they had my tennis coach, BHO and the Cambridge Police would both be called 'dullards'. He was from the south. Play it wrong, and you got the moniker for the rest of the day.
The last guy was able to go to war and to destroy and occupy a country based on what anybody in their right mind could see were incredibly flimsy grounds.
Somehow it is easier to urge your country into a decade or more of brutal war than to guide the US into joining the rest of the civilized world in providing healthcare for its citizens.
It would be a huge shame if so little of Obama's promise - or should I say what Obama promised the US electorate - was realised.
I was really hoping for more details too. In part so that I can defend the plan against uncaring conservatives. I'm getting my MA in Public Health so I better be able to understand this!
Also, was anyone else hoping for a Matrix reference when Obama started on the "take a red pill or a blue pill"??
07/23/09
I'm pretty sure this presser was for people like me, and not snarky blog editors.
07/23/09
The Gates comments, alas, show he is immature and has poor judgment; he's impulsive. Sitting presidents do not and should not casually comment about ongoing police matters, regardless of what he thinks. He even admitted he didn't know "the facts" yet he jumped right in. That's even scarier than the generic health care blah blah blah.
07/23/09
07/23/09
At the "presser" I was watching Obama discussed capping income tax deductions on the wealthy to help pay for this because he doesn't want to burden the already encumbered middle class. He also claimed his proposal would cover 2/3rds of the costs, leaving one-third to be worked out. He also cited examples, such as saying his proposal would eliminate insurance industries' freedom to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. (That's a nice detail.) Those are details I heard him mention, and I only watched 5 minutes of the speech.
Obama has been sneaky and evasive on other fronts, like breaking his promise to shut down Guantanamo. But when it comes to this I think he's probably wise not to turn his press conference into a complicated lecture about the mechanics of his national health care proposal. (And we have this wonderful thing called the Internet, where the curious can find more and more details as this issue progresses.) If he had turned his press conference into a lecture with charts, people would still find reasons to fault him. Instead of being too vague, the criticism would have been that he threw too many numbers at us.
Americans are masters of finding something to complain about in just about anything. Anything a president says or does, X% of Americans will say it's evil and wrong. He will not please everyone, but if he lowers my cost and gets rid of stupid pre-existing condition clauses in insurance contracts, he's got my support. If it means millionaires can only write off $3,000 worth of taxes instead of $6,000, I really don't care because that is not my problem.
07/23/09
As much as Republicans like to claim they're on the side of small business, if that were actually true, they'd have been screaming for the sort of reform President Obama wants years ago. It would have been done, and that's that. Unfortunately, GOPers have a nasty habit of musing loudly and publicly about how things ought to be, while at the same time refusing to do anything at all that might bring that state to reality.
And I agree that the whole point of this presser was not to lay out a detailed plan, but to remind people why we want and desperately need health care reform. It was mainly to neutralize the wharrgarbl coming from the other side of the aisle that is affecting certain spineless Democratic members of Congress. That is what he did; I hope it takes.
07/23/09
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/us/23race.html
07/23/09
07/23/09
uh, that IS their solution...also, in my opinion, the most likely outcome. to the people who "matter" (i.e. olds, riches, people with "real jobs"), healthcare for those who don't matter (poors, youngs, people who don't have "real jobs") just isn't much of a concern, from what I've seen.
07/22/09
I actually thought that the press conference wasn’t a complete strike out… But an Oval Office address would have been much more effective. These Q&As need to end. I’m tired of having to see Jake Tapper go all arrogant dick mode whenever he speaks. Spare me, pls.
07/23/09
07/22/09
Yes, Obama was short on specs. And yes, I am disappointed in that. However, IMO, you're going way too far in labeling the entire thing as a failure. Obama was really not talking to liberals tonight, and he was not really intending to address the particulars of his plan.
He was primarily addressing the issue of Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats, both of whom are caving in to pressure from the insurance industry. For instance, Sen. Max Baucus, Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee is a direct beneficiary of contributions from the insurance lobby. It's not for nothing that Obama stressed that Congressmen had great health insurance. He was making it clear to the American people living in Blue Dog states that their representatives' asses were covered no matter what. Blue Dog Democrats are the people who're actually holding up healthcare reform right now, not Republicans. What Obama did tonight, by talking up his healthcare plan was to bypass the middleman, talk directly to citizens in Blue Dog states and undermine the Blue Dog Senators' efforts to sabotage healthcare reform. Specs would have helped make a better case, for sure. But the lack of them does not make his press conference a failure.
07/22/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
I work in the medical-industrial complex and all this quibbling, bitching and posturing over politics and soundbites will stop movement forward as if our train just ran into the wall.
These are the facts: Everyone will get sick. Everyone will eventually develop a terminal process. Some are quick. Some are slow. The slow ones can be held in check, like diabetes, until a faster process takes over and the curtain closes.
We will go to doctors or to the emergency room if we don't have insurance. Medicaid (in California it is Medi-Cal) will pay for it if we're poor. If we have assets, we will lose them to save our lives. Our family members will lose right along with us.
We can pay for it now, when its cheap, as in the case of early diabetes, or we can pay for it later as in the case of amputations and dialysis for under-treated diabetes. EITHER WAY, we are all going to pay.
So, doesn't it make more sense to provide health insurance for everyone, to give patients access to professionals who will stress preventative medicine and risk modification, just like other developed nations do? Because either way and deal with the reality, you and I are going to pay.
I'm guessing that if some smart person pulls out their big calculator, and figures in lost productivity for just complications from the flu every year, it will show we have ourselves a big-ass problem.
Now get serious about solving it!
07/23/09
Overall, I think it’s a sad reflection on the level of discourse in our Country, but pointing out that Congress has great healthcare, emphasizing that people will still have their choice of plans & highlighting the cost of healthcare to families that they aren’t even full aware of… well, these are the points that we need to get across to the Blue Dog Dem’s constituents. Assuming that was the goal of the press conference, I don’t think it was a total failure for Obama.
07/23/09
07/23/09
Now, if reporters were demanding details, they should have asked for them. They had a golden opportunity to do so. They had the undivided attention of the President of the United States for nearly a whole hour. When you ask this President a question, he tries to answer it thoughtfully, clearly, and thoroughly. My question to them, and to The Cajun Boy, is why did they ask the usual inane questions instead of going after the sort of details we were supposedly hoping for?
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/22/09
07/22/09
07/22/09
07/22/09
07/22/09
basically noting that the segment of the population that already gets government sponsored health insurance (medicare) is also the group MOST opposed to expanding healthcare coverage.
http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/07/1970s-health-care-counterfactuals.php
Don't you fuck this up for us, olds!
07/22/09
07/22/09
07/23/09
07/23/09
07/22/09
I think the police will wear it longer.
07/22/09
Somehow it is easier to urge your country into a decade or more of brutal war than to guide the US into joining the rest of the civilized world in providing healthcare for its citizens.
It would be a huge shame if so little of Obama's promise - or should I say what Obama promised the US electorate - was realised.
07/22/09
Also, was anyone else hoping for a Matrix reference when Obama started on the "take a red pill or a blue pill"??