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'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Heath Ledger, Actor: 1979-2008
Mr. President, I've Got a Nutty Idea...

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madam.margie
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Oh, I just read all the comments, and now I feel downright ashamed. Last week my kindergarten aged son said the Pledge of Allegiance ON THE LOUDSPEAKER FOR THE WHOLE SCHOOL. It was his turn. They all do it. Here's the part I'm ashamed about: I hung around the school and listened AND WAS PROUD. Seriously. It was so retro, I thought, and wholesome and American and all that and believe you me, there's not a lot of wholesomeness around our house.

What's happening to me? Has the joy of motherhood robbed me of my liberal outrage?
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PandoraSpocks
11/30/08

@madam.margie: Really. Like Theaodora said, when it comes to your kids, all bets are off. I would have listened to mine read from the phonebook.
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onebadclam
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Oh, Pareene! Did this last election not teach us that there is no such thing as a "good kind" of Socialist?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@onebadclam: Something about a dead Socialist?
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onebadclam
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: I think Hannity did mention something along those lines, but it is hard to differentiate the barking sounds that pass for Hannity speaking.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/30/08

@onebadclam: We must be on different frequencies: I only hear grunts.
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Tremonius
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Why doncha name the others in that historic photo? Ike is in the act of being introduced to none other than J Edgar Hoover, off duty.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Tremonius: Naw, I think that J. Eddy liked her hair down.

And isn't that Clive Davis in the background?
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Baroness
11/29/08

@Tremonius: Off duty diva!
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Baroness
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Before the 1930's, US schoolchildren saluted the flag/pledged allegiance with their arm extended straight out, not over their heart. For obvious reasons after the war, this was changed. But in the 1910's and 20's, it was standard, as old photos attest.

And yes, it was identical to what looks like a Nazi salute.

Just find this interesting, not making any point; it's always a mistake to ascribe our retrospective knowledge backwards to another era. The past really is another country. They couldn't have known how we'd see it now.
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Tremonius
11/29/08

@Baroness: There's a photo somewhere of Jackie Bouvier as a child in a period costume with a swastika affixed. It was an authentic Aztec dress, and that was a good luck symbol. The only reason Nixon didn't use that photo as a hit piece in 1960 was his fear of alienating all those nazi voters.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Shifting seamlessly to the wonderful world of religion, I also refused to make the Legion of Decency Pledge, which would have had the effect of making the Catholic Church arbiter of what movies I could see. My memory of my parents and I being the only ones in church refusing to rise and raise their hands is pleasantly acute.
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Private Hangnail
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: So does Satan give you his commands in person or does he appear in dreams?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: Man, that's hardcore! When I was a child, I used to not say the bits of the Nicene Creed I didn't believe in (namely that on the third day, Jesus rose again in accordance to the scriptures, and ascended into heaven).
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Private Hangnail: She speaks through her attorney.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: I don't even remember the Nicene Creed (not can I come up with a decent joke about it). If it wasn't in the Baltimore Catechism, we didn't do it.

We had the Sisters of Notre Dame, who were considered the Pope's enforement arm in America. Today they would all be locked up -- ramming kids' heads into the blackboard for talking in class. I did not make that up.

The only thing anomalous about my Catholic school experience in the 50s was the complete absence of anti-Semitism. Looking back I think wow, with all the other shit how did that happen?
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SaraRueful
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: But how can you fight the Legion of Doom if you don't pledge yourself to the Legion of Decency?!? Good god, man, THINK!
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@SaraRueful: Darlin', I am the Legion of Doom.
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TheodoraGoesWild
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: Holy shit. That is amazing. Were you and your family shunned? Excommunicated?
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@TheodoraGoesWild: No. He edited the local paper and they had to be nice to him. There was this time that he questionned one of their decisions (they raised money to build a new wing on the school but dillydallied about starting contruction) and the priest denounced him from the pulpit. We were in the third row. The three of us got up and marched out down the main aisle while the congregation looked stunned. He paced back and forth outside the back door ... whatever the hell you call it where the priest comes and goes from ... until the mass was over. Then he ambushed the priest and reamed him out. I was never so proud (other than when his decades-old predictions about Nixon proved to be true) of him. The priest never tried it again.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: That's pretty cool. The Nicene Creed is the one that starts with 'we believe in one god, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.' They say it in the Anglican church too, and I always took especial delight in pronouncing Pontius Pilate as Pe-lah-TEE. Like the calisthenics.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: That's pretty ubiquitous in the Judeo-Christian tradition. I've been to enough Jewish services to get the impression that the typical one is 45 minutes of the Lord's Prayer interrupted by an "Old Testament" reading and a sermon.
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Tremonius
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: If you're a Catholic, then you have to accept a lot more bizarre pixie dust than patriotism can account for. Like, that wafer and Mogen David? You have to, MUST believe that is the actual Body and Blood of Jesus, and you ain't allowed to cough up samples for DNA tests neither.

Over the sacreturn of the Baptist church where I was taken was the inscription "ONLY BELIEVE." Meaning, don't ask questions. Since an early age, I have not understood how you can be commanded to believe, how belief can be a doctrine.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Tremonius: I was only sent to Catholic School because my mother went and it was expected. But everyone regretted the whole thing in time. For one thing, is was so opposite the family political and literary interests. I hated the church for years for all that but recently made my peace with them. I don't have any big insights. I just don't care anymore.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: I've always been fascinated with American brand Catholicism, because it seems so different to what we have here. I know not all of you are Bill O'Reilly-esque blowhards, but compared to the Catholicism I grew up with (our parish's Catholic Women's League was teeming with middle-aged mums that were feministy, anti-nuclear, pro-choice, and had protested the 1981 Springbok tour; our parish priest had majored in some obscure form of physics and still comes round for cups of tea and to talk evolution with my Atheist dad; my school was overrun with feministy Catholic teachers, and our religious studies department was taught by a staunchly anti-war nun), your Catholicism scares me.

(whew, that was a bit too much to insert inside such tiny brackets!)
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Weegee's bored
11/30/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: My understanding is that it's changed entirely since Vatican II. But I was so furious at it for years that I refused to even look in its direction. My impression now is that the American Catholic Church no longer churns out its stereotypical alumni: cops, robbers, drunks, nuns, whores, barflies, priests, mean bitter politicians like Rudy Giuliani (my hatred for him partly comes from the shared background -- I could see where HE comes from a mile away), the occasional pasty faced middle American cypher, and of course drunken smartass writers.
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Lizawithazee
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Not only are the schoolchildren of Texas forced (excuse me, "expected") daily to say the Pledge of Allegience, they also have to say the TEXAS pledge -

"Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible"

AND there is a minute of silence each and every day.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Lizawithazee: That is creepy. What/who is the minute of silence for? At my school, we only sang the national anthem at our end of year mass (although at my intermediate school we sang it each week, in assembly), and the only requirement was that you learn and sing each of the verses in both English and Maori. I guess we had to pray as well, but I went to a Catholic school, and I know that not everyone prayed, they were just respectfully quiet and nobody forced them to behave otherwise.
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apocalypse-nowish
11/29/08

@Lizawithazee: Hate to disagree with you, but as a proud Texian, I can tell you right now I never had to do any of that. I think it's district by district. I think we looked at the Texas Pledge once, in all my 12 years of schoolin'. But yes, we do have our 45-60 seconds of silence still going on.
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hellosunshine
11/29/08

@Lizawithazee: Really? I totally didn't have to do that in R(ichardson)ISD! I think it's probs a district thing. I'm intrigued, I don't think I've ever memorized the Texas state pledge! I can, however, sing and dance to "Deep in the Heart of Texas" thanks to drill team :)
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Lizawithazee
11/30/08

@apocalypse-nowish: It's been a state law since 2003.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Someone enlighten me. Is this the only country on the face of the planet where the citizenry has to be reminded what nation they live in before they can watch a fucking ball game?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: I hear North Korea has a similar custom...
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: You mean you have to pledge fealty to the dude in the pajamas?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: You Americans could learn a lot from the elaborate rigmarole those North Koreans put on!

I guess National Pride is such a key part of American culture (capitalised for impact), hence the flag fetishism and the need to sing the national anthem at any public gathering.

We don't really do the same thing, but we do also have the haka, which is usually performed by our All Blacks (and other various sports teams on a national level) at sports events. It's traditionally a war dance; it's intended to be a challenge to the opposition, but can also be used to display respect for the mana of an opponent or an individual (Maori culture is very formal; perhaps even more so than the English).
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Mount_Prion
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
"The Commie-hating clergyman responsible for adding God to our pledge just died!"

Amen.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
The Pledge of Allegiance: did you Americans really have to say it each morning at school? Do you still have to? Will bad things really happen if you don't?
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Meg
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: We had to say it on Mondays, and when I refused, I was told to go live in Russia or Nazi Germany, by my homeroom teacher. He was also the German teacher.
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mmstk101
11/29/08

@Meg: Seriously?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Meg: I read so many books as a child about kids that refused, and shit got almost Chocolate War-esque for them. Is it compulsory? Do you have to hold your hand over your heart? It's ironic that people make such a big deal about not being able to lead prayers at school, when this is one is practically mandated...
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Oh are we ever on my turf here! I refused to do it when in school during the McCarthy era, at least partly because the John Birchers were threatening to kill my leftie newspaperman father. I haven't thought about it much in a few millennia, but two weeks ago I heard the words of the execrable oath coming out of my son's room when his at-home teacher was working with him. I'm not saying that I was out of my chair pretty fast,but you can still find the crater my head left on the ceiling.
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: The way I remember it, no one gave a damn between second grade and junior year, from about 1992-2001. Of course this all changed and we were told to say the pledge every damn morning at 8:00 a.m. after September 11, 2001. My teacher did not require us to stand, to say it, or to put our hands over our hearts. She was awesome and told us that blind faith never leads anywhere you want to go, so learn to think for yourself. I think it's because she was an artist, and this was art history class.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Meg: Another reason I love you. Let's start a cabal.
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Meg
11/29/08

@mmstk101:@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Yes, I'm serious. Technically, he couldn't do anything about it, because they can't force you to say it. I know he wanted to send me to the office, but he had no legit reason, so he just lashed out instead. But he was a total asshole, and was actually recently fired for sending inappropriate emails to an underage student. So, yeah.

@Weegee's bored: Awww, thanks!
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@alysbrangwin voted for Kay Hagan: Yeah, I can imagine things changed after 9/11, but nonetheless, isn't it kind of odd that it is expected to be recited (even if not, as you said, always enforced)? Maybe it's just because I'm from a secular country, but I find the religiosity and ceremonial aspects slightly unnerving...
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SaraRueful
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: We said it in elementary school -- mid 70s -- and again in high school, 1985-88. I don't know if it was up to the school or the district or what. Anyway, in high school I had "come out" as an atheist -- shocking where I'm from -- and wouldn't acknowledge it. I just did last-minute homework or read. One homeroom teacher, the French teacher, yelled at me, but I said I wasn't going to say it, and I knew she couldn't make me, and so did she. So that was that.
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TheodoraGoesWild
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: When I refused to stand and pledge c.1970, my homeroom teacher sent me to the principal's office. I calmly and carefully explained my reason for boycotting the Pledge, discussing my rights as a U.S. citizen, my opposition to the Vietnam war, and so on. He was silent for a moment, then slapped his desk and said decisively, "When in Rome!" I was too stunned to deliver the obvious smart-ass reply.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Meg: That's slightly/unbelievably unprofessional. Was he ever reprimanded for that? (I'm guessing not).
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Spirit Fingers
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Yes, there was that fear of being sent to the "office". Meaning, the principal's office, I suppose. Now as an adult with free will, I'm curious to know what the principal would have actually said. As someone raised in the south this could have meant a myriad of things. A lifetime of fish sticks, the inability to work on our Trans Ams in our front yards, or perhaps, eternity wearing backwards baseball caps and saying "Hey, y'all" at every gathering. All monumental sins against nature.
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Dickdogfood
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: My memories about this are a little sketchy, but the older I got, the less interested the adults around me were about us kids doing the Pledge of Allegiance. This went from high-minded heavy-handedness in Kindergarten (this is in 1976), to sometimes-we-have-to-do-it-sometimes-we-don't in junior high, to not ever doing it at all (I think) in high school. The Iranian hostage crisis was something of an uptick in occurences, to the point where we'd have to do it (and moments of silence) before assembly programs.

I got chewed out by a jr. high homeroom monitor for mumbling the POA. "Don't you KNOW how many people DIED for the PLEDGE of ALLEGIANCE and you STAND there and MOCK the FLAG BLAH BLAH."
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Meg
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: No, but I never said anything, either. I wish that I could say he was the most inappropriate teacher there, but alas, he was not.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@TheodoraGoesWild: 1970 I believe is the year when my father said something about the Weather Underground that would make Sarah Palin shit a moose. I guess you could say I had an atypical upbringing.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@SaraRueful: Ha, I 'came out' as an Atheist in first year, and then realised that my family have been well-disguised Atheists all along.

I have no cultural experience of my own to compare what y'all have said to. I went to a small, liberal Catholic school where a compulsory 10% of the students were not Catholic, and we weren't really forced to do anything bar participate in the school Passion Play (and in 2003 this was more of an anti-war march) and various powhiri (which is part of our culture, anyway). And even then, I don't know if that counts...
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pocahaunted
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored:

You are amazing. And I found you on the internet. Miracles CAN happen
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TheodoraGoesWild
11/29/08

@Weegee's bored: Perhaps your father and I have crossed paths! Would love to know what he said, BTW. PM me if you feel so moved.
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happymisanthrope
11/29/08

@pocahaunted: whereas my high school was filled with people who just mumbled the pledge, if we said it at all.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@TheodoraGoesWild: He's long gone. To know him you would have to be older than me, and that's unlikely. You weren't in the NYC newspaper world during the 50s, 60s, and 70s, by any chance? If so you might have run across him.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@pocahaunted: You're not a cop, attorney, or bill collector I hope.
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@pocahaunted: If miracles really could happen, someone would have set me up with Courtney Love by now. She's the woman of my dreams.
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clergymen from molluscs
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: I don't think anyone has answered your question. No, you certainly do not "have to". A teacher or school official may lead the pledge, but no student "has to" stand, put their hand anywhere, or say anything, and no one can punish a kid for refusing. Saying it is "mandated" is just silly. Sorry my answer isn't more amusing.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@TheLorax: That's okay, I have no cultural experience to which I can compare it to, so the whole thing has always stumped me. And, of course, my perceptions of what the whole thing entails have been shaped largely by poop culture, hence my understanding that it was in some way mandatory.

Regardless of whether or not one is expected to stand and the consequences of refusing to comply, is it a part of some kind of school regulations that it be recited each morning? I mean, is the ritual a purely sentimental one, or is there another reason?
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Ooh, typo; please read 'poop culture' as 'pop culture', although the terms may be used interchangeably, at your discretion.
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SaraRueful
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: I like "poop" better, and I think I shall start using it.

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: And also, seriously, Jedis, as in the Star Wars movies? Seriously?!? Wow. I think I love your country. How hard is it to get in? :) (Not because of the Jedis, because that's not my thang, but because of the agnostic and the atheist as head guy. I'm dreaming of the day it happens in the US!)
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pocahaunted
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith:

O, Vivian! You are the same searcher who tested incredulously, 'Wait, but you can't simply be fired without notice, like that?' Yes?

The Earthly Paradise you occupy so that our accounts of our country shock and awe must be sweet, green. You are Dante led through the Inferno. Behold, the Nine Circles of Freedom!
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clergymen from molluscs
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: ah that is the "word substitution to comic effect" of the month! I was wondering myself if teachers are expected to lead it or can choose to at their discretion. I don't know. The recitations expose one to group stupidity on several levels, as most teachers and students put a period after the word "America" and a comma after the word "stands", which makes no sense at all. (Find the text and you'll see what I mean.)
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@pocahaunted: Ha, yes. I come from such a ridiculously liberal country that, while it may well improve the quality of my life, has left me truly naïve to the nefarious ongoings of other supposedly similar countries. It's somewhat amusing, as most other aspects of my everyday life are imbued with unmistakeable cynicism.

I am beginning to prefer to think only of America as Bill Bryson wrote it; I'm almost too afraid to find out any more than that.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@SaraRueful: Ha, apparently the highest concentration of Jedis appeared to be in university towns, particularly at Canterbury, in Christchurch.

Our (newly-elected) Atheist PM John Key is not particularly offensive, but he is also the leader of our biggest centre-Right party, and is more pro-privatisation and pro-market reform than I care for. That said, you should have seen our last one! Helen Clark was PM for nine years, led our biggest centre-Left party, and legalised civil unions, legalised prostitution, repealed Section 59 (a loophole in our laws allowing parents to discipline their children with 'reasonable force' that was invoked by the Defence in multiple child abuse cases), and was hardline anti-nuclear and against New Zealand's involvement in Iraq. Even though I voted Green rather than Labour, I truly miss her, and it hasn't even been a month!

I don't know how hard it is to get into NZ from the US, but I do know that it is a lot easier to gain residence and citizenship here than it is there, and that the only thing that really distinguishes the two is the ability to run for office and the eligibility for a New Zealand passport (my father has been a Permanent Resident for the last forty or so years, and he is as entitled to vote and receive free healthcare as I am as a citizen).
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@TheLorax: Ooh, just found this (I really should have looked here first):

"It should be recited by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform, men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. People in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute."
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SaraRueful
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: A friend of mine from Oregon took a job at a newspaper there, but he only lasted a year. (Reading between the lines of his emails, I think Wifey wasn't a fan.) It sounded amazing and beautiful and unspoiled to me. Maybe I'll look into if my contract here (I'm in France now, and happy, but who knows?) isn't renewed.

But the most important question: How do funny, decent, fully-toothed New Zealand men feel about fat chicks? I'm not going nowhere I can't get laid, sister!
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/29/08

@SaraRueful: Fully-toothed? What kind of men do you think our men are?!

I'm not going to pretend I can speak for the men of my country, but I'm pretty darn sure they don't really care (more importantly; are you fully-toothed?!). Besides, this is a country that raises its young on red meat and dairy; 'strapping young lass' is a term bandied around here with alarming alacrity.

Which newspaper did your friend work for/where did he live? My family has a generations-deep tradition of being immigrants (or at least marrying them), and while some of my family have encountered a bit of a culture shock (namely my Orthodox Jewish cousins, who struggled to remain observant in a country with such a minuscule population of Jews), they all seem to prefer here to wherever they came from. At least, that's what they say.
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SaraRueful
11/29/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Oh, no, no, I wasn't besmirching the dental work of New Zealanders. I was just thinking of the typical man who hit on me in NYC. Often homeless, old, and mostly toothless. (Not including the falafel guys and Bangladeshi cab drivers who thought I was quite a catch.) Also, my teeth are very near perfect, and I didn't even have braces. Even the little chip in the front one from an over-exuberant drink from a beer mug has almost smoothed out, after about 18 years. :)

My friend went to Auckland, the NZ Herald. His wife was a teacher and there was some rule where she had to have all this extra schooling on top of what she had in the States to teach there, or something? And maybe couldn't work? I'm not clear on the details. But the stories of his day trips -- and week trips, etc. -- and the pictures he sent were just awesome.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
11/30/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: I'm from a liberal part of the country, so we didn't have to in high school and some teachers didn't.
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Private Hangnail
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
I like the version in which pork sausage is praised much better.
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American Dreamer, Again, Some More
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
I always enjoy hearing about a life well spent by another morally uprighteous person such as myself. I expect our dear lord god to award me with a long life because I always put others ahead of myself.
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Private Hangnail
11/29/08

@The King of the Puppy Bears: And what of all the other incarnations of yourself that you've led to execution with your assinine commenting? What of their souls? Certainly they deserved a shot at the American Dream(er) as much as you do.
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Meg
11/29/08

@The King of the Puppy Bears:
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hellosunshine
11/29/08

@The King of the Puppy Bears: In your statement, shouldn't God be capitalized? Just saying.
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hellosunshine
11/29/08

@hellodarling!: See also: Lord, although you don't need to use "Lord" and "God" in the same sentence, if you're using it in the Judeo-Christian sense, as it's pretty redundant. Either "Our dear Lord" or "Our dear God" - not both. Then again, what do I know.
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Spirit Fingers
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Anybody remember this one:

I pledge allegiance to the flag
Michael Jackson is a f*g
Diet Pepsi burned him up
Now he's drinking 7 UP!

Yes, this was apparently how we showed our patriotism in the 80's. Was this not the intent?
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Spirit Fingers
11/29/08

@javysan: Hee! I was beginning to think no one here was cool like me.

That was the whole reason why we said "diet," because it somehow legitimized Jackson's, um, shall we say ambiguous sexual nature. He was essentially all fake, but, uh, sugary.

We still had love for him, though. He was Michael Jackson, for goodness sake.
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Sproing
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
When I was a kid, this dude's pledge-meddling caused me to believe that God was "in the visible," making me wonder why I didn't see God everywhere I looked.
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fileunder
11/29/08

@Sproing: Heehee, maybe I was just a prescient kid, but I used to think it was 'injustice for all.'
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Weegee's bored
11/29/08

@Sproing: Yeah. It added yet another reason for me to refuse to stand and pledge allegiance, which added yet another reason for my immense popularity in high school.
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maude_flanders
11/29/08

In reply to 'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97
Is that Bob Casey I see there?
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maude_flanders
11/29/08

@maude_flanders: Senior I guess...not junior
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skahammer
11/29/08

@maude_flanders: Are you making an obscure reference to Pennsylvania state politics?

If so, bravo.
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'Under God' Rev. Dead at 97

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