and now she's dead

posts about #andnowshesdead more →
Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
R.I.P. Mary Travers, 72
The Girl Who Flipped Off Simon Cowell
Farrah Fawcett, 1947-2009
Dana Milbank Steals Man's Underwear on Normal Saturday Night
Bea Arthur, Beloved Gay Icon, 1922-2009
Pinup Queen Bettie Page, 85, Dies
Comatose Heiress Sunny von Bülow Dies
Odetta, Folk Singer Of The Gods

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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
10/15/09

In reply to Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
also: "women's section" style section #newyorktimes
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Lymed
10/15/09

@if_i_only_had_a_heart: I wonder if they only changed the name because they realized gay men like that stuff too. #newyorktimes
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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
10/15/09

@Lymed: alas, thursgays, we knew you well #newyorktimes
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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
10/15/09

In reply to Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
not so long ago, at all: 3rd wave feminists please take note -- this is what your grandmas did #newyorktimes
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BookishLookish
10/15/09

In reply to Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
Let this badass lady go straight to heaven, God. #newyorktimes
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BettyCrocker
10/15/09

In reply to Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
That's sad - she sounds like she was exactly the kind of person I like to sit next to at dinner. #newyorktimes
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goetz
10/15/09

@BettyCrocker: She looks like my grammy. #newyorktimes
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goetz
10/15/09

In reply to Nan Robertson, New York Times Woman of Distinction
All along I thought the only way to get toxic shock syndrome was by removing a tampon with your teeth. #newyorktimes
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Novaload
09/26/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
There were quite a few Manson children, whereabouts unknown. Charlie had several of his own. Out there. Somewhere.
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SudeviUsopp
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I appreciate John Waters, but I don't understand pursuing any relationship or friendship with these women - on any level. I know that he embraces and celebrates the seedier and more transgressive elements in our culture in his films, but these individuals or neither marginal nor misunderstood, they did a very evil thing, as evil as evil can be.

They tortured and murdered seven innocent people, and expressed no remorse nor fully admitted to their wrongdoing in a public forum. My mother was 9 months pregnant with my older brother,her first child, in August 1969, and I cannot help imagining her murder in the place of Sharon Tate.

I understand that John Waters keeps a painting by John Wayne Gacy above the bed in his guest bedroom, so that "guests do not stay too long". I don't find the humor in this, nor I'm sure do the families of the 33 boys found murdered underneath his floorboards.

Call me humorless... but this extends beyond embracing bad taste. I find it disturbing.
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snugbug
09/25/09

@SudeviUsopp: I honestly don't understand John Waters' motives on a logical level either. But I do admire him greatly, as an artist, which is why I pay attention to what he says and don't discard it off-hand as rubbish. I thought Waters' Leslie Van Houten book moved beyond his usual provocative MO--it's a sincere effort to understand and try to absolve a very, very terrible person who did a terrible, terrible thing, but has since atoned for it. I dunno, it's an interesting thing to contemplate. It brings up interesting questions about the nature of evil, and society's default rules to forgive vs. forget.
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nellicat
09/25/09

@snugbug: I don't think it's rubbish, either, and I agree that the nature of mercy, the capacity for evil and for good, the concept of redemption, etc. are all very worthwhile things to think about and debate.

What bugs me about the excerpts I read is that Waters can't seem to understand why people can't just see the BEAUTY of LVH and let go of that nasty little incident in the past . . . his capacity for compassion for the survivors seemed so much less than his capacity for compassion for the killer. That strikes me as very wrong.
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BookishLookish
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I think of Sharon Tate all the time. I never think of those wretched women in prison who killed her. They can rot in hell, and Monday is Yom Kippur and I don't even care.
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TheBusinessGuy
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Good. Not soon enough, and I hope it was very painful. 'Nuff said.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Remorse is a powerful thing.

When the guy who raped and sodomized me was being sentenced, the judge intimated that if he'd only shown some remorse, he would have gotten a lighter sentence. Idiot stilled cried consensual and ended up in the slammer for 12 years--for a first offense.

Peeps, when it gets to the sentencing stage, always say you're sorry (unless you really didn't do it, of course).
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snugbug
09/25/09

@Eringowaaaah: Oh God. I am so sorry this happened to you. May I suggest a beautiful piece of literature that deals with this kind of ordeal? It's a chapter from David Foster Wallace's "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men"--the "B.I. #20 12-96, New Haven, CT" chapter in the book. It's one of my favorite things in the world, and just thought I'd share that here.
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HypocriticalOath
09/25/09

@Eringowaaaah: 12 years? He should have gotten 12 lifetimes.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

@snugbug: Ordering right now. Thanks.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

@HypocriticalOath: Thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Whatever he did to me in no way makes up for being Bubba's bitch for all this time. I'm sure he'll come out worse than he was when he went in. Especially if he's still lacking in that good old dose of remorse.

He gets out next year so am actively seeking suggestions for places to live besides NYC. Amsterdam is a top contender.
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CarlinaZeikfried
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I dont have anything constructive here. Nothing exceeds like excess I guess.
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snugbug
09/25/09

@CarlinaZeikfried: Yeah, it's a bit of a letdown. I was hoping for some kind of back-and-forth about how and why a naive young girl from a middle-class, albeit dysfunctional, family, lost her mind under the influence of drugs and the ridiculous rantings of a misogynistic, illiterate pig. That's the part I never got--these young women testifying that they were so ensnared by Mason's spiel that they obeyed his orders like zombiebots. I also don't get Jim Jones, or the Nike sneaks cult, etc.
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Conchie Birdie
09/25/09

@snugbug: That's because you're probably (somewhat) sane and have a mind of your own.
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snugbug
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
On a related note, John Waters has just written a book about the friendship he developed over the years with Leslie Van Houten--the third infamous Manson girl, along with Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkel. He's been championing for her release for years.

Excerpt here, if you've got some time to burn. Quite an interesting addendum to this.. sad, horrible saga.
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mattchew03
09/25/09

@snugbug: Thanks! Going to read it.
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HollyAesacus
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Susan Atkins didn't stab Sharon Tate, she held her down so Tex Watson could. SA was a big talker who embellished a lot of what happened that night. All I can hope is that her death was excrutiatingly painful.
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Private Hangnail
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
My brainwashing cult leader renames me Sadie Mae Glutz? I stay home when they go a' murdering.
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scroll_lock
09/25/09

@Private Hangnail: "I'd love to go, but I just washed my brain and I can't do a THING with it!"
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Private Hangnail
09/25/09

@scroll_lock: "Killing pigs? You know, I think I'll just sit in this here closet and sing folk songs."
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Cfegrl
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
"Bitch, I have no mercy for you." - Susan Atkins to an 8-month pregnant Sharon Tate just before she stabbed her 16 times.
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snugbug
09/25/09

@Cfegrl: Drugs + brainwashing. It's chilling how these two things can so effectively strip people of their humanity.
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