Oh, and if you were thinking about making any snide remarks about my typos, well, you can just go to hell. Reading is hard enough. Writing is a minefield. Also, when I go to heaven I'm going to put in a request for virgins that can type. (I said 'that' and not 'who' because, as we all know, women aren't people).
@Freegan: You know what another difference is between us and the Hajjis is?
That's a serious question. I can't think of any myself. Hoping you've got some other ideas. If so, kindly note them here. I'll check in later, but right now I have to go fuck a goat, mutilate some genitals, then get down to the town square in time to throw rocks at that little fourteen year old slut who was saying disrespectful things about the goats.
If writing stuff down is hard because, well, you know, that whole literacy thing can be taxing, then why don't we just catch up at the next embassy riot? Somebody is going to take offense at something sooner enough, so I'm sure we won't have long to wait. And after that, we can go out a kill someone having a beer.
Had forgotten this until I checked Col. (Ret.) Janis Karpinski's page on Wikipedia: The 60 Minutes episode which broadcast the Abu Ghraib photos, thus bringing them to the attention of many people for the first time, aired in April 2004.
Five years ago, that was. People who saw the photos at or before the 60 Minutes report have known about those acts for five years.
If there are photos depicting rape, sodomy and child molestation, I don't give a fuck about whether they are the same photos that Obama is trying to suppress or another set of photos that Taguba saw. I want criminal prosecutions. This country cannot tolerate rapists. I don't need to see the pictures. I only need to know that justice will be served.
I really don't understand all of the photos in which there is a grinning soldier posing next to a human being in a thoroughly humiliating position as though that person was a 12 point buck that the soldier had just shot. Then again, I don't really get the 12 point buck photos either.
To be honest, the chain of events confuse me a bit, but the fact that there are entirely different sets of abuse photos is disturbing in and of itself. I get a little more nauseous every day.
Right now it seems inevitable that these photos are going to leak.
I'm wondering if that hasn't been Obama's plan all along. This way, he gets to play the good cop to the CIA and military, while at the same time feeding the grassroots demand for high-level accountability.
No wonder Cheney has been blustering so hard lately.
@saintjim: Given that a grass-roots demand for accountability was pretty much the basis for his entire campaign, I really don't see how he can expect to renege.
Financial promises are one thing - a history changing implosion in the last 60 days of a two year effort is going to lead to some major policy adjustments. You'd have to be a real asshole to wonder why he's 'flip-flopping' on anything having to do with spending right after the country has just put itself a few trillion in hock.
But that only amplifies the larger accountability demand. He must understand that you don't get to "move on" from cancer unless you actually cure the cancer. And the civil rights mess left behind by Shrub & Co. is - unequivocally - cancer.
Call me cynical, but the "military" superiors who pressured Obama to change his mind and not release the photos are the individuals most likely to suffer some blame, if not actual prosecution, for what went on in Abu G--and they are brazen enough to hide behind the argument that the ordinary soldier in the field would bear the brunt of revenge for said photos.
I agree with you, Sweetie,--time for the Brass Hats and policy makers to be held accountable.
An interesting not-so-theoretical and relevant question here for those with the instant answers: It has come out in the last few years that at the conclusion of world war II, some of the American military in fact abused, beat, and murdered several of Hitler's finest,including the infamous SS troops that committed countless atrocities against Jews and others. Would you have prosecuted those GI's? Remember, especially if you're Jewish, some of those SS troopers might have exterminated some of your family members, maybe some of mine.
@hatchetman: the difference being that it was pretty easy to identify a nazi. they wore fucking uniforms.
what we have here is the indefinite detention, torture and rape of any suspicious brown-skinned man or woman in an attempt to dredge up evidence that didn't exist or to get them to admit to atrocities they did not commit.
would i have prosecuted those GIs? i don't know. but i certainly wouldn't have excused them for their actions.
The rape of the boy was mentioned in the Red Cross report. He's a civilian. The civilians brought in under contract who tortured and raped are not subject to military tribunals and escaped prosecution.
Ever since I read Jon Ronson's The Men Who Stare at Goats, about the exploration by military intelligence professionals of some fairly far-out theories of psychological warfare, I've wondered how likely it was that these baroque humiliations of captured prisoners were exclusively the work of low-level soldiers.
When the Abu Ghraib story appeared to fade, I concluded we'd never discover whether there was more to the story than that. Now I wonder if we will, after all.
@skahammer: i certainly hope so. if dick cheney's vague "by any means necessary" bullshit certainly jibes with that mentality. even if they didn't directly order these kinds of atrocities, i wouldn't be surprised if they left things a bit open for interpretation.
It is disgusting that they continue to try to whitewash vicious and horrifying torture. Are we proud of it? No of course not, except for a small psychotic portion of our society. We can never hope to regain "moral authority" or restore the standing of what was once a hopeful light of freedom in this world. Even if it was always a bit of a pipe dream.
Once upon a time we supposedly were decent and just and though made mistakes, once something came to light. There was at least an attempt at justice. There is instead a concerted and frankly disturbing drive to thwart justice at all costs. Do people actually think the rest of the world does not know what we did? Why the hell do you think so many "enemy combatants" are out there? Because of our long standing unjust foreign policies and continuing mounting evidence of crimes against humanity.
There must be a reckoning for all things and if we are even to a small degree what we have so often claimed to be? Then justice must be served. This was not a couple bad apples, it was systemic and horrific. It was fucking policy people,, honestly WTF is wrong with people? IT WAS AND IS TORTURE! The continuing lies and crimes do not reduce hate against our soldiers. It does not save the precious lives of our loved ones, being used like pawns on a chessboard. It protects those who set the policy. It protects a corrupt power system. Plain and simple. Piss and moan all you like,, it is a fact. Even if you don't fuckin like the truth, it is what it is.
It does not matter how many times they pretty up the words and call it "enhanced interrogation techniques". One simple word exists already to describe it. Torture. Torture. Torture. We are not supposed to do that, not as a country, not by our very own laws and international treaties. Not to mention from a decent human being standpoint. It is disgusting and quite telling about the rot that infests the powers that be in this country. As well those everyday citizens who cling desperately to delusion about the reality of this world we live in and what was done in our name.
At this point you are either a psychopath in your own right if you think things are ok, or that this torture was acceptable. Or you are willfully ignorant and just as culpable. Neither should make you feel good or safe. Because you are not. For those with a functioning brain and perhaps a realization you may not have had before. Try researching psychopaths. Not the movie version and over used slang. But what the successful ones are like and the things they gravitate towards. Then take a second look at what is going on in this world. For those others,, who will flame or try to distort my point? You are of no import and I will not wast my time with you. For those who notice the stench and wonder what might be rotting? A book or two that might prove interesting are called Political Ponerology, and Snakes in Suits among several others. None of which I am personally connected to, but terrifyingly interesting. May what ever justice exists in this universe be on the side of the sane.
The Islamic creeps would have set-off dirty bombs in every major US city if we let them. People get upset over something done to our men and women in every war. Perhaps we should have allowed them to set-off their bombs and murder half our population or more w radiation contamination. When my country & family is threatened & murdered, any means necessary will be used to stop these sicko's who use their sick God's name to wipe us out.
@BlackXacto: Most of the people so abused were picked up in sweeps and subsequently released when no evidence was found against them. Perhaps you should get to know more about the entire issue.
@tailpipebananna: Try: troll with secret fantasies about raping young Arab men in bondage. I mean that's the only way to explain the logic that says that raping Arab men in bondage helps make America safe. He has a boner for raping young Arab men in bondage and liberals are freaks? The only cure for this desire to rape young Arab men in bondage is to head to the nearest public bathroom frequented by Republican men and start doing the Wide Stance Dance. Conservatives are fricking weird, man.
@downwithdebbie: I completely agree. What the hell is wrong with our soldiers. This, and the recent news nearly made me vomit. How does war turns our soldiers into psychotic rapists and murderers?
@MyrtleWilloughby: how? how about when you lower military recruiting standards enough to include already borderline psychotic rapists and murderers and turn them into "soldiers"?
@Motoko Kusanagi: Seymour Hersh and several other reporters knew the extent of these atrocities and talked and wrote about them years ago. It's just that Americans weren't paying much attention then.
@persimmon: Yep. Which pretty much makes everyone who voted to keep Shrub & company raping and murdering and rapist and murderer. Ignorance is no excuse in this day and age. I've known about these specific allegations--and the trail from them that leads to the desk of Don Rumsfeld--since March 2004.
05/31/09
05/31/09
05/31/09
That's a serious question. I can't think of any myself. Hoping you've got some other ideas. If so, kindly note them here. I'll check in later, but right now I have to go fuck a goat, mutilate some genitals, then get down to the town square in time to throw rocks at that little fourteen year old slut who was saying disrespectful things about the goats.
If writing stuff down is hard because, well, you know, that whole literacy thing can be taxing, then why don't we just catch up at the next embassy riot? Somebody is going to take offense at something sooner enough, so I'm sure we won't have long to wait. And after that, we can go out a kill someone having a beer.
05/31/09
Five years ago, that was. People who saw the photos at or before the 60 Minutes report have known about those acts for five years.
05/30/09
I really don't understand all of the photos in which there is a grinning soldier posing next to a human being in a thoroughly humiliating position as though that person was a 12 point buck that the soldier had just shot. Then again, I don't really get the 12 point buck photos either.
To be honest, the chain of events confuse me a bit, but the fact that there are entirely different sets of abuse photos is disturbing in and of itself. I get a little more nauseous every day.
05/31/09
05/30/09
I'm wondering if that hasn't been Obama's plan all along. This way, he gets to play the good cop to the CIA and military, while at the same time feeding the grassroots demand for high-level accountability.
No wonder Cheney has been blustering so hard lately.
05/30/09
Of course the way things are going, next week we'll learn of some whole new, unintended mess...
05/31/09
Financial promises are one thing - a history changing implosion in the last 60 days of a two year effort is going to lead to some major policy adjustments. You'd have to be a real asshole to wonder why he's 'flip-flopping' on anything having to do with spending right after the country has just put itself a few trillion in hock.
But that only amplifies the larger accountability demand. He must understand that you don't get to "move on" from cancer unless you actually cure the cancer. And the civil rights mess left behind by Shrub & Co. is - unequivocally - cancer.
05/30/09
05/30/09
05/30/09
06/01/09
05/30/09
I agree with you, Sweetie,--time for the Brass Hats and policy makers to be held accountable.
05/28/09
It has come out in the last few years that at the conclusion of world war II, some of the American military in fact abused, beat, and murdered several of Hitler's finest,including the infamous SS troops that committed countless atrocities against Jews and others. Would you have prosecuted those GI's? Remember, especially if you're Jewish, some of those SS troopers might have exterminated some of your family members, maybe some of mine.
05/28/09
what we have here is the indefinite detention, torture and rape of any suspicious brown-skinned man or woman in an attempt to dredge up evidence that didn't exist or to get them to admit to atrocities they did not commit.
would i have prosecuted those GIs? i don't know. but i certainly wouldn't have excused them for their actions.
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
When the Abu Ghraib story appeared to fade, I concluded we'd never discover whether there was more to the story than that. Now I wonder if we will, after all.
05/28/09
05/28/09
Once upon a time we supposedly were decent and just and though made mistakes, once something came to light. There was at least an attempt at justice. There is instead a concerted and frankly disturbing drive to thwart justice at all costs. Do people actually think the rest of the world does not know what we did? Why the hell do you think so many "enemy combatants" are out there? Because of our long standing unjust foreign policies and continuing mounting evidence of crimes against humanity.
There must be a reckoning for all things and if we are even to a small degree what we have so often claimed to be? Then justice must be served. This was not a couple bad apples, it was systemic and horrific. It was fucking policy people,, honestly WTF is wrong with people? IT WAS AND IS TORTURE! The continuing lies and crimes do not reduce hate against our soldiers. It does not save the precious lives of our loved ones, being used like pawns on a chessboard. It protects those who set the policy. It protects a corrupt power system. Plain and simple. Piss and moan all you like,, it is a fact. Even if you don't fuckin like the truth, it is what it is.
It does not matter how many times they pretty up the words and call it "enhanced interrogation techniques". One simple word exists already to describe it. Torture. Torture. Torture. We are not supposed to do that, not as a country, not by our very own laws and international treaties. Not to mention from a decent human being standpoint. It is disgusting and quite telling about the rot that infests the powers that be in this country. As well those everyday citizens who cling desperately to delusion about the reality of this world we live in and what was done in our name.
At this point you are either a psychopath in your own right if you think things are ok, or that this torture was acceptable. Or you are willfully ignorant and just as culpable. Neither should make you feel good or safe. Because you are not. For those with a functioning brain and perhaps a realization you may not have had before. Try researching psychopaths. Not the movie version and over used slang. But what the successful ones are like and the things they gravitate towards. Then take a second look at what is going on in this world. For those others,, who will flame or try to distort my point? You are of no import and I will not wast my time with you. For those who notice the stench and wonder what might be rotting? A book or two that might prove interesting are called Political Ponerology, and Snakes in Suits among several others. None of which I am personally connected to, but terrifyingly interesting. May what ever justice exists in this universe be on the side of the sane.
05/28/09
When, and who?
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
But. . . rape? Is that really an effective tool for. . .
Oh, never mind.
05/28/09
troll
05/28/09
05/28/09
2) WhyTF were they taking pictures?
While I'm leaning toward not releasing pictures of assault, the charges and trials should be public.
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09
05/28/09