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New York, 8:55 AM
Tue Dec 1
57 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of snuggleupagus snuggleupagus
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    That's odd. No one has called to offer me a fucking job yet.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice promoted this comment snuggleupagus was starred snuggleupagus was unstarred
    Image of homovegetarian homovegetarian
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    yes, using the word that describes the actual thing is silly, let's get a cute term so that we can *feel like we know what is going on, without actually learning or knowing any more than we did before!

    does this metaphor help: the tumor is no longer growing.

    and i'm not saying i agree with the fed, i'd have to say that i don't really know. i work for myself, and i am seeing a little uptick in business after a dismal and terrifying summer.
     Reply
    Edited by homovegetarian at 09/16/09 1:57 PM homovegetarian was starred homovegetarian was unstarred
    Image of The Lone Scout The Lone Scout
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    It's not over yet. Commercial real estate will be the next domino to fall.
     Reply
    The Lone Scout was starred The Lone Scout was unstarred
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    I invested in an index with my tax return and made some insanely crazy returns this year. So yeah. If you're employed and had a little coin to spare you might have made out like a bandit this year.
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of labyrinthine IS DOING THIS labyrinthine IS DOING THIS
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    dear Fed guy: find me employment. otherwise I'm not buying it.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice promoted this comment labyrinthine IS DOING THIS was starred labyrinthine IS DOING THIS was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    Well, John, I'm sure you know this, but the statistical end of a recession - economic growth, the bottoming of inventory statistics - usually precedes the social end of a recession. Employment, in particular, is expected to follow.

    If you're jobless, a sense that there might be ANY light at the end of the tunnel seems helpful, no? Unless, of course, you're writing this from the radical perspective of a man who hopes that ongoing discontent with the economy will foment some sort of cultural reconstruction or reformation. To which I say, haha, how dare the economy not solve all of our problems!
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of homovegetarian homovegetarian
    09/16/09

    @Unsolicited Advice: don't be ridiculous! you should measure the economy by how you feel today, just like the dow. using the established means to determine that things have probably stopped getting worse is the loser's way out of unending hysteria.

    where is your commitment to drama, bullshit, and senseless handwringing? afterall, how can we fix a problem, if we know what it is? we should keep trying to end this endless recession, and stop working on economic recovery.
     Reply
    homovegetarian was starred homovegetarian was unstarred
    Image of depardoo depardoo
    09/16/09

    In reply to Oracles Declare Recession Over: Prepare to Feel Statistically Better
    "Recessation"?
     Reply
    depardoo was starred depardoo was unstarred
    Image of morninggloria morninggloria
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    I've decided to rechannel my rage into the fucking over of others. Much more profitable, and better for the ol' chest ticker.
     Reply
    morninggloria was starred morninggloria was unstarred
    Image of MrInBetween MrInBetween
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    When you've got $10 trillion in debt -- and the bailouts and stimulus cost you a combined $1 trillion-plus -- getting back $14 billion is like finding two quarters buried between the couch cushions.
     Reply
    MrInBetween was starred MrInBetween was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    @MrInBetween: Well, the idea is that this might happen more and more as debts are repaid. If we make enough in interest and fees from those who repay, that will help to defray the losses from those who end up not being able to, or possibly (in some magical Americaland where even horrible shit always has a silver lining) turn a profit.

    I'm thinking that the end result will be something more in line with the former rather than the latter. In which case, many of the individual loans we gave out will end up having been subsidized by those who took loans to begin with. Not such a horrible outcome, all told.
     Reply
    Edited by skt.smth at 08/31/09 10:30 AM skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of MrInBetween MrInBetween
    08/31/09

    @skt.smth: I'll be stunned if the US Government makes enough in interest and fees to make up for the losses of those who can't repay. Has there been a single government bailout in US history that ended up benefitting taxpayers?
     Reply
    Edited by MrInBetween at 08/31/09 10:50 AM MrInBetween was starred MrInBetween was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    @MrInBetween: Well, any returns in the form of interest and fees necessarily defrays those losses, at least to some extent. It may not be much, but it's better than nothing.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    It's kind of cocky to boast about "returns" on our tax dollars this early on in the process. By definition, the people who pay up earliest on loans are those who can best afford to do so. Let's wait to see which of the 600 some odd TARP beneficiaries who still owe us can afford to do so when all is said and done.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of Uncle_Billy_Slumming Uncle_Billy_Slumming
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    A little bleary brained this morning, but some enterprising fellow looked a little beyond the numbers we were hearing regarding hidden american money in UBS accounts. IIRC it's something close to $1 Trillion just at UBS. Remember.. there are plenty of other swiss banks. And then there's Panama, Antilles, Jersey, and a few hundred other tax havens. Haha.. they took our money. Haha. Fooled us. (And wouldn't you know it, we hide money for people from other countries too, right here in the land of the free). Ha ha.
     Reply
    Uncle_Billy_Slumming was starred Uncle_Billy_Slumming was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    08/31/09

    @Uncle_Billy_Slumming:

    Whose money is it? It sure as hell isn't "ours." Pointing at those offshore accounts dreaming of all the bridges Congress could build is a pretty sick mentality, but then I guess I don't take perverse pride in being a net negative contributor to the tax base.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    I'm sure there's a T account out there for this, but the risk-weighted return on this is dogshit. Of course that's not how a regulator thinks or should think, so this whole meaningless accounting effort on the part of the media really needs to end.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of Astigmatism Astigmatism
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    So I guess this means we all get bonuses, right? Does this mean we have to go to Scores now?
     Reply
    Astigmatism was starred Astigmatism was unstarred
    Image of skahammer skahammer
    08/31/09

    @Astigmatism: You mean you normally comment from somewhere other than Scores?
     Reply
    skahammer was starred skahammer was unstarred
    Image of son of spam son of spam
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    $14BB is a shitload of money, except when you're talking about bailouts.
     Reply
    son of spam was starred son of spam was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @son of spam: Exactly. To put it in perspective, it is 1.4% the cost of the proposed health care legislation.
     Reply
    flossy promoted this comment Edited by momof3wildkids at 08/31/09 8:09 AM momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Or if you want some real perspective, 1.4% of Bush's disastrous little adventure in Iraq.
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of Thomas Paladino Thomas Paladino
    08/31/09

    @flossy: Ask the people who don't have to live under Saddam anymore how disastrous it was. And the 'healthcare' proposal will be disastrously costly forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever, as opposed to Iraq, which will not. So apples/oranges there.
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead promoted this comment Edited by Thomas Paladino at 08/31/09 9:23 AM Thomas Paladino was starred Thomas Paladino was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @flossy: Not quite. [costofwar.com]
    Good point though.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Okay, I'll give that source the benefit of the doubt and assume those numbers are correct. What did that money buy us?

    --4,000+ American casualties
    --Tens of thousands of Iraqi casualties
    --A fractured Iraq that is more of a threat to regional stability than was Saddam's regime in 2003
    --A huge black mark on our international reputation

    And I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that "investment" to turn a profit.
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @Thomas Paladino: Jesus Christ. And yet you know how to use a computer. Progress, Corky!
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @flossy: Don't forget millions displaced. And the way in which women's place in society has been downgraded.
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    In reply to Fed Nets $14 Billion on Bailout
    Where is the leak about our return on the auto bailout(s)?
     Reply
    skahammer promoted this comment momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of skahammer skahammer
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Check your coolant line.
     Reply
    skahammer was starred skahammer was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Well, while you were apparently not paying attention, this summer G.M. and Chrysler made it through the process of bankruptcy restructuring in record time. But don't let that get in the way of complaining!
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of Thomas Paladino Thomas Paladino
    08/31/09

    @flossy: HAHAHAHAAAAAAAA... Anyone who thinks that our auto industry will EVER be able to function as normal, profitable companies so long as the unions are allowed to continue to operate unchecked has got their head, neck and shoulders buried in some pretty dense sand. That 'bailout' money will never be seen again. Believe that.
     Reply
    Edited by Thomas Paladino at 08/31/09 9:28 AM Thomas Paladino was starred Thomas Paladino was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @flossy: I said RETURN. Getting through the process of bankruptcy does not mean that we will see one dime back from the money we gave them.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't have bailed them out. I don't think we will see our money again. I also find it amusing that the good numbers are leaked without mention of the numbers that suck.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: I find it amusing that Fairfield County cares.
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @daveyjonesisdead: Why do you find that amusing? A fair number of Fairfield County's residents are employed by Wall Street type firms or real estate which obviously have been hard hit by the economic downturn.

    Additionally, residents of Norwalk and Bridgeport (especially) are also taking it on the chin because many of their residents are employed by manufacturing and other industrial businesses which are closing rapidly.

    Fairfield County doesn't merely comprise of Greenwich, Darien, New Caanan and Westport.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of theMoJo theMoJo
    08/31/09

    @Thomas Paladino: Oh yes, because the real problem is that stupid people think they should be getting paid "fairly". Silly assholes. How dare they assume that they are worth treating humanely. Why should we care to pay and support our workers, when we could just pay them all in table scraps and nickels?

    Everytime one of you retarded trolls mentions the bailout as "our" money I throw up a little bit. Yes, like no amount of government money has ever been spent on you, directly or indirectly. Like you've never ever taken a single cent of government money. You fuckers act as if the money used for the bailouts were your own personal savings account. Give it up....you aren't going to make it long enough to cash in your SS policy, what with all the right wing/Faux noize/Glenn Beck semen you swallow every night forming a cancer in your gut.
     Reply
    theMoJo was starred theMoJo was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: I jut thought a real estate bailout to protect your husband's rental properties might be foremost on your mind. Or did the pre-nup only give you just enough of a share of his wealth to stay home and neglect your kids?
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @theMoJo: You really don't look at it as our money? Really?

    While the money didn't come directly out of my personal savings account, I won't be able to add as much to my savings account in the future because of the increased taxes I am going to have to pay.

    I'm not saying the bailouts shouldn't have happened. I frankly don't know if they should or shouldn't have occurred. But to say that it isn't going to personally cost me, and all Americans who pay taxes, is the height of ignorance.
     Reply
    skt.smth promoted this comment momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Paul Krugman, of all people, thinks that we should be running an even higher budget deficit right now. Yes, we are massively in debt--by around 70% of our GDP--but historically speaking, this is not unusual, and there are countries that have run much steeper budget deficits (in terms of % GDP) and managed just fine.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @daveyjonesisdead: No bailout or prenup here. Your concern is overwhelming. {Sniff} I think I'm getting verklempt, if that is possible for an Irish Catholic girl.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @skt.smth: Why is it telling that Krugman thinks we should have a higher budget deficit?

    I'd love to see the list of countries thriving with higher deficits. I think our definition of managing just fine may be different. Regardless, I'd love to see the list.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: You live in Fairfield County. You are not Irish Catholic. Irish Protestant, perhaps.
     Reply
    Edited by daveyjonesisdead at 08/31/09 10:50 AM daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Okay, well one way to assure we'd never see a return on any of that money was to follow Bush's example of throwing bailouts at the big three and just hoping they'd take it as a sign to straighten up and fly right. Obama did (by necessity--letting them fail would have kneecapped our already struggling economy) throw good money after bad in a bid to save the industry, but he did the right thing by stepping in to take over and guide those broken companies through a swift and tidy bankruptcy. That is the first step back toward profitability. These things don't happen overnight.
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    08/31/09

    @Thomas Paladino: The unions took it on the chin right along with other investors when G.M. and Chrysler went into bankruptcy. If that's the best straw man you can find, you might just want to give up on the trolling this morning.
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @daveyjonesisdead: My grandfather, Patrick McVerry, is rolling around in his grave right now. Orange? Hell no.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Perhaps we'll marry well.
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Umm, it's telling because Krugman is an economist of some note, who routinely says pretty brilliant things about economics, and his message is that we should be running a higher deficit. I'd not be too surprised if an Obama surrogate came out and said the same thing, but I wouldn't be nearly as convinced it was a good idea in that case. Krugman, in other words, is trustworthy, and he says that, historically speaking, we're not as deep in doggy doo-doo as those who focus only on the raw number (rather than the % GDP) would have us believe.

    [www.nytimes.com]
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @flossy: Well, I found a point of agreement between us! Bush was a a tool.

    I hope you are correct that the automakers will return to profitability. I would love to be wrong about this.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of daveyjonesisdead daveyjonesisdead
    08/31/09

    @Thomas Paladino: the housing bubble and financial crisis existed because Greenspan used rising housing values to replace rising salaries (because salaries weren't rising any more, despite record productivity) in an effort to keep the consumer-driven economy alive. And so here we are.

    Fordism worked and will work again, and unions will be a part of ensuring that.
     Reply
    daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    08/31/09

    @skt.smth: Thanks for the link to the article. It was an interesting read.

    Belgium and Italy are your examples of countries that are managing well? I suppose they are if you are into chocolate and shoes; but they don't jump to mind when I think of countries with great financial power or acumen.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids:

    Keep in mind that valuing bailouts is not a matter of credits and debits. You're also accounting for potential lost GDP when industries collapse etc., to say nothing of tax revenues and the like that would have been lost. Then you've got hidden costs like the lack of bond market function thanks to how the administration handled the owners of GM's obligations, the general mispricing of risk, and the fact that now we've invited American agency debt into investor analysis of basic corporate operations.

    In other words, hey morons, the money and "my taaaaaxes!" are the least important aspect of any of this.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of theMoJo theMoJo
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: I'm saying quit sitting up by the door waiting for some sort of check to return to you within a year. All kinds of money gets pissed away by government, and I'm sorry to bring up this old horse, but I'd rather it go into American businesses and keeping many many Americans employed than watch it go into useless Military Technology and cameras for Gitmo guards to take photos of naked prisoners.
     Reply
    theMoJo was starred theMoJo was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    08/31/09

    @momof3wildkids: Exactly, and those countries were in debt by over 100% of their GDPs. America--a country with great financial power--is only in debt at about 70% of its GDP. I think if Belgium and Italy can deal with being completely underwater, we can wade through a pool that only goes up to our chests.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
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