Can someone please explain RICO and what it has to do with Vick's case to the black people in this thread? I'm too exhausted from being witness to their stark ignorance to bother.
And he's got his original job back, playing football. Doesn't mean he should get a show too.
I guess I'm stating something obvious to everyone else here, but he's getting a show BECAUSE of the dogfighting, or at least, his being caught, and I think that's f*cked up and trashy, but we're talking about it, which is what BET wants. He got caught, couldn't pay someone (a rape victim, a girlfriend or mistress, etc.) off, and got face time in the media. Plus this case is juicy because of the bullshit idea floating around that dogfighting is okay because the only foundation for disgust is elitist, racist valuing of animals over people.
I wasn't aware being disturbed by animal torture (even if you don't give a shit about pets) is just white peevishness. Or that people can only take offense at violence or abuse of one's wealth/fame against animals OR humans, but not both. Kind of undermines the blogosphere's love of Chris Rock after that stuff he said on Jay Leno. Like someone else on this board, he compared the Vick case to the Polanski case. And like plenty of other fucking idiots (and I LIKE Chris Rock's stand-up), in the interview he referred to the Polanski case as "sex with a thirteen year-old" and made the argument that if it's rape, it's because of the victim's age. Even the celebrities who WILL criticize Polanski only seem to note that it's rape because the victim was thirteen, NOT because the asshole forced himself on someone telling him to stop. God help us, the opponents of Polanski are as stupid as the defenders, because they're obsessed with the age of the victim, not the coercion, making me wonder if any of these famous assholes would sense something amiss if Polanski's victim had been 18.
Regarding the extent of Michael Vick coverage--didn't his case break during summer, making it more likely the media would yammer on about this?
I will say I'm kind of confused; celebrities are no longer default role models, correct? I guess that doesn't matter--they're "role models" because they're paid millions of dollars and people see them as entertainers, if not templates for a successful, decent life. I'm all for holding other athletes to the same standards of public indignation as Vick. The problem is, those "other" athletes can settle with their victims in court or skewer their reputations. Of course dog fighting isn't worse than rape, but unlike human victims, dogs can't attempt to seek justice for themselves. (Though I realize the penalties for pressing charges against some powerful can be lethal too, unless you have a spotless history or hard evidence, so why NOT just demand a settlement?)
Surprised no one has brought up corporate farming to fend off the criticism of this show ("if you eat meat, you shouldn't give a shit that Michael Vick participated in dog-fighting but is rich again").
@maude_flanders: Yup.
While "he served his time" means we should charitably allow him to rejoin society relatively unmolested, there's no right to a NFL contract, with all the lush benefits that accrue.
The NFL and BET embracing him with warm arms and murmurs of encouragement is the true crime that irks most of the people that loathe Vick and what he stands for.
If he received the same treatment that a Dan White or one of many boy-diddling Republican pols (being made to sink into an ignored, faded ignominy), there'd be much less ire.
And for that, Vick, BET and the NFL are all co-conspirators.
@Trai_Dep: Dan White and the boy-diddling Republicans committed crimes against people. Dogs are not people, contrary to what many, mostly white (yes I said it) people think. You can dress them up, get medical insurance for them, and call them 'your baby' but that doesn't change the fact that dogs are animals and in the eyes of the law and the rest of the world, a crime against an animal is not as serious as a crime against a human being. The repeated calls for Vick's death or mutilation reveal that there are a lot of folks who are just as sick as Mr. Vick is accused of being.
Cruelty to animals is horrible and thankfully illegal. Michael Vick was punished and put in jail. He served the time a judge and jury sentenced him with. He doesn't owe anybody a damn thing.
@Trai_Dep: Oh and Dan White basically got away with the murder of two human beings and was allowed to fade away because there wasn't as much outrage about the assassinations of Moscone and Milk as there has been about these dogs.
Vick is a shitbag and anyone who thinks he's "served his time" and should be allowed to port about making millions is a deluded fool.
Find a non-celebrity felon convicted of a violent crime and ask him if he's been able to get a job at all, never mind two highly overpaid ones.
Vick should only be on television greased up with animal fat and thrown into a pen filled with starved, abused, aggressive dogs.
That I would watch.
Calling out a "docu-series" as a "an autobiographical attempt to revamp Vick's image" is just hater spin. And why is the (White) Media picking him as the poster boy for all the wrongs of rich, spoiled athletes...as opposed to say Donte Stallworth, who has to sit out the 2009 season to prepare for doing a whole 30 days for a DWI homicide. Is Vick worse than him? What about the 73 other current NFL players with DWIs? At least the NFL punished Vick on top of his prison sentence; when Phillies pitcher Bret Myers beat up his wife in the middle of the street last year, MLB didn't do a thing...and Myers was the Phillies opening day pitcher this season.
And: maybe this "docu-series" will actually shed some light on how and why Vick came to think running a dog fighting ring was a fine idea....
@SuchAndSuch: You know what, I'll partially agree with you here. I do think it's miserable, pathetic and shameful that our national athletes' tendencies to break the law and do horrible things tends to take a back seat to our willingness to pay them millions of dollars. You got me there. However, that doesn't really justify your, "Well, but other athletes are shitbags too!"
As far as I'm concerned, being convicted of a felony crime (particularly a violent crime, like dog fighting or spouse beating) should drastically reduce your opportunities to make millions of dollars. But, for normal non-celebrity or non-athlete people, it only drastically reduces your ability to make thousands of dollars.
As far as Vick's reasons go, I don't really care. I suspect it had an awful lot to do with money. Does it really matter?
@vizualizewhirledpeas: THANK YOU! The last time I checked Michael Vick had served his time and paid his debt to society. He killed some ANIMALS folks. Every weekend thousands of people go into the forests and do the same damn thing. You can even watch it on TV. Michael Vick's biggest mistake appears to be not having enough sense to go out a rape a little girl.
You know what sucks? The whole fact that, had he NOT been such a royal piece of shit dog-killer, he would just be another football player who (most likely) would never get such a deal.
What a messed up world we're living in, eh?
Gwynnie, et.al.: Can we call a moratorium on the fabulously rich and pampered dressing themselves as though they can't be bothered to know what size they wear or whether the tag goes in the front or back? It screams, "I normally have people do this for me," and is ridiculous.
Jeans, white T-shirt, sneaks. Works in just about every situation you might find yourself in. Your welcome.
This twisted train of thought is wishful thinking from professional cheerleaders. I need more than a gut feeling forecast before I re-adjust my "daily Triscuit rations".
10/08/09
10/10/09
10/08/09
And he's got his original job back, playing football. Doesn't mean he should get a show too.
I guess I'm stating something obvious to everyone else here, but he's getting a show BECAUSE of the dogfighting, or at least, his being caught, and I think that's f*cked up and trashy, but we're talking about it, which is what BET wants. He got caught, couldn't pay someone (a rape victim, a girlfriend or mistress, etc.) off, and got face time in the media. Plus this case is juicy because of the bullshit idea floating around that dogfighting is okay because the only foundation for disgust is elitist, racist valuing of animals over people.
I wasn't aware being disturbed by animal torture (even if you don't give a shit about pets) is just white peevishness. Or that people can only take offense at violence or abuse of one's wealth/fame against animals OR humans, but not both. Kind of undermines the blogosphere's love of Chris Rock after that stuff he said on Jay Leno. Like someone else on this board, he compared the Vick case to the Polanski case. And like plenty of other fucking idiots (and I LIKE Chris Rock's stand-up), in the interview he referred to the Polanski case as "sex with a thirteen year-old" and made the argument that if it's rape, it's because of the victim's age. Even the celebrities who WILL criticize Polanski only seem to note that it's rape because the victim was thirteen, NOT because the asshole forced himself on someone telling him to stop. God help us, the opponents of Polanski are as stupid as the defenders, because they're obsessed with the age of the victim, not the coercion, making me wonder if any of these famous assholes would sense something amiss if Polanski's victim had been 18.
Regarding the extent of Michael Vick coverage--didn't his case break during summer, making it more likely the media would yammer on about this?
I will say I'm kind of confused; celebrities are no longer default role models, correct? I guess that doesn't matter--they're "role models" because they're paid millions of dollars and people see them as entertainers, if not templates for a successful, decent life. I'm all for holding other athletes to the same standards of public indignation as Vick. The problem is, those "other" athletes can settle with their victims in court or skewer their reputations. Of course dog fighting isn't worse than rape, but unlike human victims, dogs can't attempt to seek justice for themselves. (Though I realize the penalties for pressing charges against some powerful can be lethal too, unless you have a spotless history or hard evidence, so why NOT just demand a settlement?)
Surprised no one has brought up corporate farming to fend off the criticism of this show ("if you eat meat, you shouldn't give a shit that Michael Vick participated in dog-fighting but is rich again").
10/08/09
While "he served his time" means we should charitably allow him to rejoin society relatively unmolested, there's no right to a NFL contract, with all the lush benefits that accrue.
The NFL and BET embracing him with warm arms and murmurs of encouragement is the true crime that irks most of the people that loathe Vick and what he stands for.
If he received the same treatment that a Dan White or one of many boy-diddling Republican pols (being made to sink into an ignored, faded ignominy), there'd be much less ire.
And for that, Vick, BET and the NFL are all co-conspirators.
10/08/09
Cruelty to animals is horrible and thankfully illegal. Michael Vick was punished and put in jail. He served the time a judge and jury sentenced him with. He doesn't owe anybody a damn thing.
10/08/09
10/08/09
Find a non-celebrity felon convicted of a violent crime and ask him if he's been able to get a job at all, never mind two highly overpaid ones.
Vick should only be on television greased up with animal fat and thrown into a pen filled with starved, abused, aggressive dogs.
That I would watch.
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
And: maybe this "docu-series" will actually shed some light on how and why Vick came to think running a dog fighting ring was a fine idea....
10/08/09
As far as I'm concerned, being convicted of a felony crime (particularly a violent crime, like dog fighting or spouse beating) should drastically reduce your opportunities to make millions of dollars. But, for normal non-celebrity or non-athlete people, it only drastically reduces your ability to make thousands of dollars.
As far as Vick's reasons go, I don't really care. I suspect it had an awful lot to do with money. Does it really matter?
10/08/09
sorry, wrong thread.
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
What a messed up world we're living in, eh?
10/08/09
10/08/09
09/09/09
09/09/09
09/09/09
Jeans, white T-shirt, sneaks. Works in just about every situation you might find yourself in. Your welcome.
09/09/09
09/09/09
09/09/09
09/09/09
09/09/09
05/31/09