When they say the vaccine is most deadly in "the young", they mean children, not your entitled hipster ass.
Also, if you watched the 60 Minutes segment, you would have seen that through all the hysteria, the mortality rate is still 1%. Not at all out of line with other flu pandemics, and as stated in the segment, not even close to the severity of the 1918 flu (which was a relative of this one). The problem is that the fall-off for people who develop complications is very steep. Meaning, if you get the opportunistic bacterial pneumonia that rides in after the flu infection, that can be very serious indeed.
But keep that mortality rate in mind when you're flipping out. 1 %. That means statistically impossible scenario that every man, woman and child in the country gets the flu, 3 million people will die. Horrible and tragic for those it effects, but hardly a societal breakdown like in The Stand. #swineflu
I generally like Maher but he's lost me on this and is doing everyone a disservice. My friend's 5 year old ended up in intensive care for over a week, medically parazlyed, on a ventillator from complications from this (lung leak). NO other preexisting issues. The PICU docs said they had never seen anything like it in kids, unpredictable, devestating. She had the last oscillator ventillator in Atlanta. Thankfully her daughter pulled through, after they were ready to make funeral arrangements. Her doctor still says she should get the vaccine. After what I saw, I'm not chancing it with my three year old. How many people do I know who nearly died? One. How many do I know that might die of the vaccine? Probably no one. I'm playing the odds. #swineflu
All anti-vaccine people should be volunteered to be injected with the H1N1, Polio, Smallpox, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Typhoid, Hepatitus, and anything else we can think of. Because, hey, it's better to be vulnerable to these diseases than to take part in the single most effective public health initiative our country has going for it, right? #swineflu
While Bill Maher has his debate about the efficacy and the safety of western medicine, people--especially kids--will die in this epidemic because of ignorance and anti-government paranoia. Very simply, Bill, if you were severely ill, where you would want to be treated: a major teaching hospital in the US, or in a provincial hospital in China? #swineflu
@TheBusinessGuy: Like those are the only 2 choices? That's what the medical industry would like you to believe. Oh, and just so you know, I understand a significant proportion of those H1N1 vaccine is being manufactured in China. So, there's that. #swineflu
Rush Limbaugh is also against the vacination, it's a big "Fuck you, Sebelius!" with him. He's telling his low-information listeners not to get the vaccine. I'd bet anything he already has though, because if there's one thing piggish millionaires want, it's to live forever. #swineflu
@mommy_dearest: I seriously think they would not give a damn. The entire right-wing drive against affordable health care for all is pretty homicidal in itself.
Unfortunately, H1N1 kills off the young and the elderly, not the fat, resentful middle-aged Caucasian that listens to this shit. Sorry kids- Dad has a gripe against the government from what the TV told him! Ugh. #swineflu
Bill, stop it! I was beginning to have a good opinion of you after your whole beat down of the Truthers, but now you're in bed with that serial killer, Jenny McCarthy. Please Bill, say it ain't so! #swineflu
@GitEmSteveDave_ItCOULDLift #BalloonBoi: I don't really see him as being in bed with Jenny McCarthy. He is asking honest questions about this particular vaccine. I think he is wrong on the issue but he is an admitted cynic, and he is questioning what others aren't. I didn't here him say "Don't get the vaccine" which is what Jenny screams at the top of her lungs. I agree with him that we as a society should have a more healthy diet, but I don't know if that alone will keep us healthy. I know plenty of people like Bill who are health food nuts and they are really no healthier than me and get sick all the time. I didn't like the way he just listed a bunch of scary ingredients and stopped as if he proved a point. There are plenty of common things we eat that have aluminum in them. He should have presented a more well-rounded criticism and better arguments but I don't think he's a hysteric like Jenny. #swineflu
@heywhat: Well, if 95% of the public hear Bill Maher is against a vaccine, they will think he's against all of them, and aluminum is the newest scary monster for the vaccine people. Well, that, and the virii in them. That's why Jenny wants the virii removed from the vaccines. #swineflu
There is a very interesting article in the new Wired about the whole anti-vax crusade. It points out that the amount of aluminum in a dose of antacid is 1000 times the amount in a vaccine. I'm sure Bill Maher is taking Mylanta without any trouble, right?
The swine flu just hit my in-laws. 3 kids under 6 and their mom had the highest fevers they had ever had in their lives. They were sick for 5 days and flattened by it. Sure, they are recovering now, but not everyone is. And why go through that scary hell if you don't have to? Plus, getting vaccinated means you help protect people who can't get vaccinated. Team work, people. Team work. #swineflu
@mommy_dearest: The aluminum he's talking about is likely coming from alum, which is commonly used in vaccines to increase potency by helping to stimulate the immune system (in general, these additives are called adjuvants). Formaldehyde is, again, commonly used in killed virus vaccines to...kill the virus. Mercury is part of thimerosal, which is the compound the Jenny McCarthy's of the world are all up in arms about; it's been shown not to have any adverse effects. He's unknowingly making an argument against many (maybe most, I'm not sure and too lazy to look it up) vaccines, but he's too ignorant on the subject to realize that.
He also mentions something about understanding that inoculation is exposure to a small amount of virus to activate the immune system. Erm, that's not exactly how vaccines work these days. Sure, that was true back when Washington was variolating his troops with pus from smallpox scabs, but vaccine science has progressed pretty far since then. When you get a vaccine, you're getting inoculated with either a killed virus (think Salk vaccine), an attenuated virus that's genetically different and poorly adapted to humans (think Sabin vaccine), or a subunit vaccine that carries only a few major antigens of the virus in an otherwise harmless viral genome (HPV vax).
As a final show of ignorance, he mentions the swine flu scare of 1976, where Ford mounted a huge response to a single case of horrible swine flu. He doesn't mention that the vaccine they rolled out was contaminated with the virus that causes Guillaune-Barre, but that's not the point he was making. Instead, he argues that the government provided a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Does he think that this swine flu isn't a problem?
Maher knows nothing about vaccines, nothing about biology or the immune system, and nothing about medicine. This is too important an issue to be subject to contrarian bullshit from know-nothings like Bill Maher who think "the science isn't settled" (as if he's in any position to judge).
@tyronegreen09: Given your arguments, you think it's worth taking the chance on contracting a dreaded condition like Guillain-Barre (for which there is no cure, only "treatments") in order to maybe avoid the swine flu? I think perhaps you didn't see both episodes of Bill Maher's show and are just standing on a soapbox--and rightfully so. Given the propaganda behind this vaccine it's bound to stir up controversy, but dismissing those who QUESTION the voracity of a given treatment in a wave of hysteria and to go further to weigh the potential consequences against a difficult, if not impossible, to measure effect is a little like crying "witch." #swineflu
Filling teeth with mercury is dangerous? You get seven times the mercury exposure daily from the air, water and food than you do from a mouthful of fillings. You also get exposed to loads of formaldehyde and aluminum every day too, way more than what is used in vaccines. I would love to know what he wants us to look up about polio. A "good diet" didn't save wealthy, well-fed FDR from polio, did it?
I almost always respect Bill Maher's opinions but I don't see where he is coming from here. If you want to criticize Western medicine, there are plenty of more worrisome things than vaccines. And as far as I know, no one is being forced to get vaccinated for swine flu, so wth is his problem? From what I understand, the procedure they are using to manufacture the swine flu vaccine is exactly the same as for regular season flu (only rushed), so there is no basis to be any more paranoid than you are about a regular flu shot. Another thing, the people worried about mercury fillings have basically been debunked, at least as far as the mercury causing brain damage. There was a study in Portugese kids that showed no IQ difference in even the kids with the largest number of fillings.
We have two verified cases of H1 N1 in my department, and the state has already run through its allotment of 12k doses of the vaccine. I assume that I'm fucked, and have been enjoying life accordingly. #swineflu
But the demographic susceptibility to H1N1 and the dangers posed by the vaccine (based on the ingredients Maher named) are two completely different things.
Anyway, another factor (or theory) for why H1N1 strikes especially hard in the young adult population is that their immune systems work too well and basically goes out of control. Older people, in addition to having been exposed to similar viruses before, have reduced immune responses. Similarly, young children's immune systems have not fully developed yet, so both the very young and very old are unlikely to overreact in response to H1N1 exposure.
@Claire Buoyant: I'm really really confused by the use of the term "young adult" in these conversations about H1N1. I just read the article you linked to, and the writer refers to a "middle age group" -- "age[s] 15 to 50, give or take" that have immune systems that may work too well. That age range is fucking enormous, to say the least. To refer to all people in that age range as "young adults" is kind of absurd, no?
Really, what it all boils down to for me is that I'm a single and childless (i.e., no kids to worry about) 34 year old. My parents are in their 60s (so they're fine, hypothetically), and I'm an only child, so I have no siblings to worry about. Thus, it's all about me me me me me! Am I going to die? I need an answer! Ack!!!! #swineflu
@boobaloob: Of course you're going to die. Whether it'll be from H1N1, however, I can't tell you.
Anyway, snark aside, I'll grant you that 15 to 50 is a pretty wide range to use for "young adults." I've also heard the term "in the primes of their lives" applied to the H1N1-susceptible population, which may be a better descriptor.
I had no idea this was Maher's line on this issue. I like him, much of the time, but he can piss off on this score. My kid just had a bout of H1N1 and he's fine, but let me tell you, a weaker child or adult with an underlying condition like asthma may be in serious danger from this bug. My kid was as sick as I've seen him in ages. #swineflu
Whether or not the vaccine can kill you is apparently "up for debate", even among the anti-vaccine crowd, who I liken to the birthers and the truthers - that's about how credible they are.
Whether or not H1N1 can kill you is *not* up for debate. It can, it has, it is doing it to someone somewhere in this country right now.
Which are you going to take your chances with?
It's kind of like saying seat belts can choke you to death, so you're safer not wearing one. #swineflu
@badasscat: It's not the vaccine causing death that scares me. It's an autoimmune problem akin to Gulf War Syndrome that scares me. The swine flu is in full swing here in Texas, swept through this household last week. 36 hours with a fever, cough, headache and it left as quickly as it came. I'm not part of the anti-vaccine crowd, being as how me and the Mr. are in the healthcare field. We've had innoculations most aren't even thinking about. I'll be happy to get my vaccination next year, this rush to manufacture is too nerve-wracking for me. (Also, the manufacturers have been offered immunity from prosecution...) #swineflu
@sparkyl: You just touched on the real debate that Maher was attempting to have on his show Friday night. He was unsuccessful in his efforts to reignite the discussion he had with Bill Frist the previous week which revealed Frist's doctor's mentality with the fear talk and "worst possible case" scenarios. He even went so far as to try to lay blame on Maher if someone watching the show didn't obtain the vaccine and later died, evoking the "children and pregnant women" lowest common denominator. OY! This week's panel didn't/couldn't take the same bait.
The truth is there is no possible way for there to be an accurate measure of how effective a vaccination like this one will be AND may prove as an act of futility since immunity takes months after inoculation and the flu is already spreading quickly. If H1N1 does not reach pandemic proportions, the vaccination makers will declare victory and unjustly so. If H1N1 infects many and kills enough to create a news-byte body count on the evening news, they'll blame the fact that not enough vaccine was distributed. It's the age-old snake oil salesman's routine, plain and simple.
I think Dave is fair game among his peers for monologue jokes, but most of these attempts at humor fell flat. With the exception of Maher, these pretenders show their inferiority by their inability to be both funny and observant about it. In Leno & Fallon's case, they were neither.
@unclevanya: Fallon manages to fail in a way that is really unique. Just watching his monologue, he runs through the jokes like he's making announcements over the high school pa system. He still looks nervous and awkward up there. He fares a bit better when he's riffing off of someone he knows well, but he's still a bit of a stumbling presence. (Not in an endearing manner.)
10/19/09
Also, if you watched the 60 Minutes segment, you would have seen that through all the hysteria, the mortality rate is still 1%. Not at all out of line with other flu pandemics, and as stated in the segment, not even close to the severity of the 1918 flu (which was a relative of this one). The problem is that the fall-off for people who develop complications is very steep. Meaning, if you get the opportunistic bacterial pneumonia that rides in after the flu infection, that can be very serious indeed.
But keep that mortality rate in mind when you're flipping out. 1 %. That means statistically impossible scenario that every man, woman and child in the country gets the flu, 3 million people will die. Horrible and tragic for those it effects, but hardly a societal breakdown like in The Stand. #swineflu
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/19/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/19/09
Unfortunately, H1N1 kills off the young and the elderly, not the fat, resentful middle-aged Caucasian that listens to this shit. Sorry kids- Dad has a gripe against the government from what the TV told him! Ugh. #swineflu
10/19/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/19/09
10/18/09
The swine flu just hit my in-laws. 3 kids under 6 and their mom had the highest fevers they had ever had in their lives. They were sick for 5 days and flattened by it. Sure, they are recovering now, but not everyone is. And why go through that scary hell if you don't have to? Plus, getting vaccinated means you help protect people who can't get vaccinated. Team work, people. Team work. #swineflu
10/19/09
He also mentions something about understanding that inoculation is exposure to a small amount of virus to activate the immune system. Erm, that's not exactly how vaccines work these days. Sure, that was true back when Washington was variolating his troops with pus from smallpox scabs, but vaccine science has progressed pretty far since then. When you get a vaccine, you're getting inoculated with either a killed virus (think Salk vaccine), an attenuated virus that's genetically different and poorly adapted to humans (think Sabin vaccine), or a subunit vaccine that carries only a few major antigens of the virus in an otherwise harmless viral genome (HPV vax).
As a final show of ignorance, he mentions the swine flu scare of 1976, where Ford mounted a huge response to a single case of horrible swine flu. He doesn't mention that the vaccine they rolled out was contaminated with the virus that causes Guillaune-Barre, but that's not the point he was making. Instead, he argues that the government provided a solution to a problem that didn't exist. Does he think that this swine flu isn't a problem?
Maher knows nothing about vaccines, nothing about biology or the immune system, and nothing about medicine. This is too important an issue to be subject to contrarian bullshit from know-nothings like Bill Maher who think "the science isn't settled" (as if he's in any position to judge).
10/19/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
10/18/09
Why? #swineflu
10/18/09
10/18/09
Anyway, another factor (or theory) for why H1N1 strikes especially hard in the young adult population is that their immune systems work too well and basically goes out of control. Older people, in addition to having been exposed to similar viruses before, have reduced immune responses. Similarly, young children's immune systems have not fully developed yet, so both the very young and very old are unlikely to overreact in response to H1N1 exposure.
[scienceblogs.com] #swineflu
10/19/09
Really, what it all boils down to for me is that I'm a single and childless (i.e., no kids to worry about) 34 year old. My parents are in their 60s (so they're fine, hypothetically), and I'm an only child, so I have no siblings to worry about. Thus, it's all about me me me me me! Am I going to die? I need an answer! Ack!!!! #swineflu
10/19/09
Anyway, snark aside, I'll grant you that 15 to 50 is a pretty wide range to use for "young adults." I've also heard the term "in the primes of their lives" applied to the H1N1-susceptible population, which may be a better descriptor.
10/18/09
10/18/09
Whether or not the vaccine can kill you is apparently "up for debate", even among the anti-vaccine crowd, who I liken to the birthers and the truthers - that's about how credible they are.
Whether or not H1N1 can kill you is *not* up for debate. It can, it has, it is doing it to someone somewhere in this country right now.
Which are you going to take your chances with?
It's kind of like saying seat belts can choke you to death, so you're safer not wearing one. #swineflu
10/18/09
10/19/09
The truth is there is no possible way for there to be an accurate measure of how effective a vaccination like this one will be AND may prove as an act of futility since immunity takes months after inoculation and the flu is already spreading quickly. If H1N1 does not reach pandemic proportions, the vaccination makers will declare victory and unjustly so. If H1N1 infects many and kills enough to create a news-byte body count on the evening news, they'll blame the fact that not enough vaccine was distributed. It's the age-old snake oil salesman's routine, plain and simple.
10/04/09
10/04/09