@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: Exactly! Guns don't kill people, bulletts do. Unless of course you're in one of those old monster movies where the monster chases the gun-toting hero who is firing as he runs away, only to be cornered as his gun runs out of ammunition. And what does our hero do, class? Right, he throws said gun at the monster, braining it squarely, felling him in an instant.
Hey, a little cinematic revisionist history is called for every now and again, yes? #shooting
Why do the crazies, the postals and the stressed never engage in mad pillow-fighting or water pistol warfare? Always so serious with the permanent angry.
It really is sad the number of people in this country who seem to die only because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person. These are not our finest hours, America. #shooting
@Spirit Fingers: They'll say something along the lines of "I needs me mah guns to protect the youngins against al quedas who are illegally immigrating to an America that I no longer recognize." #shooting
@misslinda: They'll say that if a law-abiding citizen who'd been there was legally able to carry a concealed weapon, the shooter wouldn't have been able to hit so many people. Because I'm *sure* said citizen would also have super great aim and would in no way be a risk to innocent bystanders. Nope, not at all. #shooting
@misslinda: Yah, I agree with katekate, they recognize this America, it's the one they created after all.
Also, what the hell happens when we all have guns to stop other people with guns who think they can take advantage of you because you don't have a gun, but you do, so you shoot them, they shoot you, and then Canada can just "come on down", laugh at us because we're stupendous idiots...trapped in our caves with our guns and canned spam, ready to shoot any damnable thing that moves, until we de-evolutionize ourselves and have to learn how to walk and talk again. "Me have fire stick. Me want meat. Me use fire stick take meat. Where me get shoes?"
This, apparently, is where we're headed. #shooting
@formergr: Law-abiding citizens are able to get carry permits. And the funny thing is, none of those people ever happen to be at the scene when shit like this happens. They are probably the least reliable motherfuckers on the planet when it comes to saving mall-goers' asses. #shooting
@Spirit Fingers: You know they'll start saying that "if someone on the scene had had a gun"...and start demanding legislation that requires all salesclerks be armed with AK-47s. #shooting
@Spirit Fingers: But we're not all gonna have guns. IMO only an idiot would get a gun to protect themselves because by getting one, you've just introduced a very dangerous weapon into your home or on your body that was not there before. In my +20 years in NYC, I have never once ever felt like I needed a gun. I think the closest I've come to seeing someone use a weapon on the streets was the carrot peeler guy on Union Square (may he rest in peace). It's really no wonder Canada laughs in our general direction. #shooting
@SarahHeartburn: Yep, that's exactly what I mean. Guns, guns, guns for everyone now! Fucking lunacy.
@misslinda: Yes, I agree. Just seems like without even trying we'll be back in the wild west or the primordial sludge where rational thinking goes completely out the window and all that's left is kill or be killed due to constant fear mongering and the ease of which any absolute psychopath or mother of two can procure a loaded weapon. "Milk, bread, eggs, Glock 9mm, cheese, Oreos for Billy...." #shooting
@Spirit Fingers: The number of guns is beside the point. It's a Second Amendment issue: the second most important thing the Constitution has to say and the only way, as the authors saw it, to ensure free speech against the tendency of governments to outlaw it. In their view, every citizen (with all its limitations at that time) should have arms and know how to use them. They also do not define what 'arms' are. They could be nuclear weapons as far as I can tell from reading Federalists Papers (28, 29, 46, etc.). The thinking seems to be that each citizen maintaining liberty for himself ensures liberty for all. A US without guns is not the US. (I don't own a gun or want to, which is about as anti-American as I get—you may disagree). #shooting
Not to take away from an important debate, but I believe there have been some very, very late nights when those exact words have crossed my lips. #shooting
@pilf: I don't easily second-guess the Founding Padres, since they have a pretty good track record coming up with a constitution that lasted longer than any other, but the Second Amendment seems to me most obviously motivated by a specific historical context.
They had just declared war against Britain at the time--of COURSE they'd sneak in there something about the God-given right of ordinary Americans to bear arms.
Am not a constitutional scholar, and you seem to be more schooled than I am on these matters. Somehow, I agree that, barring some catastrophic reversal of fortunes, guns will never, ever be outlawed in the US--as a matter of principle. It hasn't much to do with logic at this point, but more with tradition and national character. #shooting
Do you think the Republicans are starting to get that their policies over the last eight years (both militarily and economically) have a lot to do with why people are suddenly going nuts and shooting people?
Or have they somehow convinced themselves that this is all the fault of Kenya? #shooting
@drunkexpatwriter: in reality, I would say it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B. Not because Kenya is inherently evil, but because the crazy/dumb people think it's evil. And that it's out to get them, specifically, and their unborn christian babies.
I'm not making light of this incident, and we really have nothing to go on as of yet, but like someone said down-thread, general civil unrest does seem right around the corner and it doesn't help the situation that national leaders, LEADERS, are saying spurious shit about what's really going on and thereby frightening people unnecessarily. #shooting
@drunkexpatwriter: Right now, Michelle Malkin is googling "Portland Oregon + shooting + Muslim." If nothing comes up, she won't be talking about it. #shooting
The really horrible thing is... this is just the very beginning. Lots of immature and/or stressed and postal people with guns out there. Next stop: civil unrest. #shooting
@Uncle_Billy_Slumming: Yeah, I'm kind of nervous about where this is headed. Sadly, I find it really hard to reason with people about guns--it seems their entire argument is 'constitution constitution constitution constitution, etc...' #shooting
@Colander: I'm a staunch pro-choice, pro-obama, pro-health care, pro-gov't option Dem. I'm also pro guns. I don't own one (though I have) because it's illegal here in NYC and also I don't need one. However, there is simply no way to get rid of them and quite frankly no need. These things happen in England, in France, in Germany where guns are severely restricted. It is true that it is much easier to get a gun as a criminal than legally (quicker anyway).
I'm not interested in debating it, really, just adding my two cents.
I will say this, the NRA is a terrible organization that does more harm than good and is not interested in reasonable responsible ownership. I will never be a member.
Oh, and 'constitution, constitution, constitution'. #shooting
@BaconCat: wow, and I thought I was the only one. I'm with you regarding guns, but they should be a little more restricted than they are. Who outside of the military needs an automatic weapon??? Or a handgun for that matter. As for the other countries you mention, yes, they have shooting incidents, but I'm pretty sure if you looked at the numbers it would be way below what happens here. #shooting
@raincoaster: No, of course, I cannot. But they happen. So let me pose a 2 part question to you:
1. what would happen if all guns were outlawed in the US?
2. do you want to live in a country like that?
@QueenCeleste: I have no problem with restricting some types of guns. What types and how much restriction is an arbitrary line not worth hashing out on a post so lets just say restrictions are certainly OK. #shooting
@BaconCat: I can answer question No. 2: I do (France), and I love it. I'm not one to be quiet when a driver ignores the crosswalk that I am IN, or people won't move to let me off the Metro, etc. (Which happen far less frequently than when I was in NYC.) Names are called, shoulders are bumped (hard). Here I know that maybe they'll want to fight (they haven't, yet) and at the worst they might have a knife. But it never enters my consciousness that I'm going to be blown away, as it did in NYC. #shooting
@BaconCat: I have often wondered why we can't just clamp down on the manufacture and importation of firearms. Obviously waiting periods and restrictions on certain types of weapons have been a mixed bag in terms of their success, but if we could limit the absolute number of guns in the country, without limiting the individual's right to own one (ie, keep it legal but make it much harder/more expensive to get ahold of one)... I assume there must be something wrong with my plan, since it's not being implemented, but damned if I can figure out what it is. #shooting
@romulus: I don't think you can say that waiting periods and weapon restrictions have been a mixed bag when you still have gun shows that essentially circumvent all of these restrictions.
I, for one, would just be happy if we enforced the damn laws already on the books without any exceptions. #shooting
@SaraRueful: funny, the only times i've ever been assaulted in my life were on the streets of Covent Garden, London and on the Paris Metro and I live in NYC. Go figure.
Also, look up your own laws, hunting rifles abound in France, especially in the Aveyron, which I frequently visit. And despite your own tightening of gun laws in 1995, black market guns and the associated crimes have been steadily increasing in the bad arondissments. #shooting
@raincoaster: one more thing:
If one ignores Washington DC and the US cities that are larger than
Canadian cities, the murder rates in the US are not much higher than
Canadian homicide rates. What do those cities have in common? Really restrictive gun laws. NYC has a zero firearms policy and yet firearm murders abound. Our current gun policy does not work. I won't argue about training or class restrictions, I have no problem with that.
And I am far more frightened of a state where only the police have guns than being shot by a whacko who busts into my office armed to the teeth. #shooting
@BaconCat: So, if the issue isn't guns, is it Americans? Maybe you should control them instead, then?
By the way, your assertions are incorrect. The annual murder rate for King County, Washington, for instance (ie Greater Seattle) is larger than the murder rate for Canada, just to give you one example. #shooting
@raincoaster: Specifically, the "death by gunshot" rate. I suppose the deaths from high stickings would be comparable in each country, but I don't have any stats about that, so I will refrain from making such assertions unconditionally.
By the way, we also appear to be better at math than you people. #shooting
@raincoaster: Well lucky for you you're not an American so it's not even your problem!
You are conveniently ignoring the 'death by poutine' statistics, i see. I know, I know, poutine doesn't kill people, people who make poutine kill people, but it's SO DAMNED TASTY. #shooting
@BaconCat: Let me rephrase, lest I be one of those Yankees who thinks Mexico and Canada are not in America. 'Luckily you are not a citizen of these here United States'. You are of course a Norte Americano. #shooting
I'm happy with most of it - it's an incrementalist bill that lays the groundwork for single payer - but there's a lot I don't like. Too many things were left out, and the abortion amendment had no place in a modern society's health care structure. #healthcare
As usual...... in the media, as well as elsewhere, abortion and immigration coverage now seem to make up the bulk of the discussion about this bill, instead of focusing on the larger issues that will affect most of the general public. Not to minimize issues such as abortion but when the focus becomes that, the right and left wingnuts seem to get the majority of the media coverage.
We managed to find the funds (which are probably now in the billions) to fight two wars and really have nothing but lost lives to show for it and yet, somehow trying to get American citizens decent health care is going to bankrupt us.
There are legitimate points some of the Republicans also make about tort reform and access because you're talking about taking on an additional 20-30 million people with the same amount of facilities and providers. I know they've proposed adding to the class size in medical schools and such and I hope that won't get killed by the AMA, who was staunchly against it when Clinton proposed it during her try at fixing this.
I, for one, would have liked to see something in this bill about banning pharmaceutical companies from advertising prescription medications on the air and in print.
While the profession is a noble one, I can say from first hand experience that there is a great deal of them (physicians) who are morally corrupt...........when it comes to financially rewarding themselves at the expense of the American taxpayer.... as well as many of their patients. #healthcare
@Buttafooco: Good, honest doctors are also pissed about pharmaceutical commercials and ads, because they encourage ordinary people to request brand-name drugs even if they're not appropriate, and undermine the trust in doctors when it comes to prescribing things. #healthcare
@noisy doll: I used to make the shiny, pretty, happy toys doctors get from pharma. I planned luxury vacations for them. Purchased diamond earrings for their wives (Celebrex launch, I kid you not.) Gold embossed Coach Rx pads. I also agree - get the ads off TV. I want doc to tell me what I need because of efficacy - not because he wants the Greek Islands cruise for writing scrips or because the slender, beaming woman on TV living an upper class life who is SO happy to take pill for (insert symptom here) told me I should. #healthcare
@TroisFilles: Heh! Pharmco giveaways. I still have my bullet pen (which I love) and heart-shaped stress ball from my years on the frontlines (read: general practitioner's office). I remember how the docs I worked for made me proud because they never allowed the reps to pander to them. I remember seeing one of them refuse a Stanley tool set saying, "I work 6 days a week. I've forgotten how any of this works!" :) #healthcare
03:51 PM
International law is so complicated.
11/25/09
I wonder how much, exactly, he'd be willing to pay for us to drive him over the ridiculously porous border.
11/25/09
11/25/09
Notice, I didn't say what we'd do with him once we got paid and got him across the border.
11/25/09
11/25/09
Crafty.
11/25/09
Big enough.
11/10/09
Because us white folk never do anything bad ever. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
Hey, a little cinematic revisionist history is called for every now and again, yes? #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/11/09
11/10/09
It really is sad the number of people in this country who seem to die only because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong person. These are not our finest hours, America. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
Also, what the hell happens when we all have guns to stop other people with guns who think they can take advantage of you because you don't have a gun, but you do, so you shoot them, they shoot you, and then Canada can just "come on down", laugh at us because we're stupendous idiots...trapped in our caves with our guns and canned spam, ready to shoot any damnable thing that moves, until we de-evolutionize ourselves and have to learn how to walk and talk again. "Me have fire stick. Me want meat. Me use fire stick take meat. Where me get shoes?"
This, apparently, is where we're headed. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
@misslinda: Yes, I agree. Just seems like without even trying we'll be back in the wild west or the primordial sludge where rational thinking goes completely out the window and all that's left is kill or be killed due to constant fear mongering and the ease of which any absolute psychopath or mother of two can procure a loaded weapon. "Milk, bread, eggs, Glock 9mm, cheese, Oreos for Billy...." #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
Not to take away from an important debate, but I believe there have been some very, very late nights when those exact words have crossed my lips. #shooting
11/10/09
They had just declared war against Britain at the time--of COURSE they'd sneak in there something about the God-given right of ordinary Americans to bear arms.
Am not a constitutional scholar, and you seem to be more schooled than I am on these matters. Somehow, I agree that, barring some catastrophic reversal of fortunes, guns will never, ever be outlawed in the US--as a matter of principle. It hasn't much to do with logic at this point, but more with tradition and national character. #shooting
11/10/09
Or have they somehow convinced themselves that this is all the fault of Kenya? #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
I'm not making light of this incident, and we really have nothing to go on as of yet, but like someone said down-thread, general civil unrest does seem right around the corner and it doesn't help the situation that national leaders, LEADERS, are saying spurious shit about what's really going on and thereby frightening people unnecessarily. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
I'm not interested in debating it, really, just adding my two cents.
I will say this, the NRA is a terrible organization that does more harm than good and is not interested in reasonable responsible ownership. I will never be a member.
Oh, and 'constitution, constitution, constitution'. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
Didn't think so. #shooting
11/10/09
1. what would happen if all guns were outlawed in the US?
2. do you want to live in a country like that?
@QueenCeleste: I have no problem with restricting some types of guns. What types and how much restriction is an arbitrary line not worth hashing out on a post so lets just say restrictions are certainly OK. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
2) I already do. #shooting
11/10/09
11/10/09
I, for one, would just be happy if we enforced the damn laws already on the books without any exceptions. #shooting
11/11/09
11/11/09
Also, look up your own laws, hunting rifles abound in France, especially in the Aveyron, which I frequently visit. And despite your own tightening of gun laws in 1995, black market guns and the associated crimes have been steadily increasing in the bad arondissments. #shooting
11/11/09
If one ignores Washington DC and the US cities that are larger than
Canadian cities, the murder rates in the US are not much higher than
Canadian homicide rates. What do those cities have in common? Really restrictive gun laws. NYC has a zero firearms policy and yet firearm murders abound. Our current gun policy does not work. I won't argue about training or class restrictions, I have no problem with that.
And I am far more frightened of a state where only the police have guns than being shot by a whacko who busts into my office armed to the teeth. #shooting
11/11/09
By the way, your assertions are incorrect. The annual murder rate for King County, Washington, for instance (ie Greater Seattle) is larger than the murder rate for Canada, just to give you one example. #shooting
11/11/09
By the way, we also appear to be better at math than you people. #shooting
11/12/09
You are conveniently ignoring the 'death by poutine' statistics, i see. I know, I know, poutine doesn't kill people, people who make poutine kill people, but it's SO DAMNED TASTY. #shooting
11/12/09
11/12/09
11/08/09
I'm happy with most of it - it's an incrementalist bill that lays the groundwork for single payer - but there's a lot I don't like. Too many things were left out, and the abortion amendment had no place in a modern society's health care structure. #healthcare
11/08/09
"Think about it. Government is the negation of freedom."
I did think about it, and he's totally right! Oh my god I'm so stoned. #healthcare
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
We managed to find the funds (which are probably now in the billions) to fight two wars and really have nothing but lost lives to show for it and yet, somehow trying to get American citizens decent health care is going to bankrupt us.
There are legitimate points some of the Republicans also make about tort reform and access because you're talking about taking on an additional 20-30 million people with the same amount of facilities and providers. I know they've proposed adding to the class size in medical schools and such and I hope that won't get killed by the AMA, who was staunchly against it when Clinton proposed it during her try at fixing this.
I, for one, would have liked to see something in this bill about banning pharmaceutical companies from advertising prescription medications on the air and in print.
While the profession is a noble one, I can say from first hand experience that there is a great deal of them (physicians) who are morally corrupt...........when it comes to financially rewarding themselves at the expense of the American taxpayer.... as well as many of their patients. #healthcare
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/08/09
11/08/09