@WretchedGnu: If you start voicing dissent at authority figures, pretty soon you won't be willing to get up and do bogus Powerpoint presentations in front of the U.N., and the next thing you know, no hell breaks loose.
I wonder what it's going to take for some people to doubt Crowley's account of things. Lucia Whalen has now said flat-out she never spoke to him at the scene, so at least one part of his report is a demonstrable fabrication. But please, keep scolding Gates for something you have no reason to believe he did other than the word of someone who plays fast and loose with facts, and who started calling in other police cars while he was still in the house with Gates, before he had committed any "crime" whatsoever.
By the way, a correction: Crowley was not investigating a burglary. He was investigating a possible burglary. He saw almost immediately that there was no burglary in progress.
So...in this situation, if Skip Gates is the Iraqi people and Officer Crowley is the Bush administration, it would have been perfectly okay to beat the guy, pull his pants down, sodomize him, pour gasoline on him, light him on fire and then claim he pointed a weapon at you?
@Mediahohoho: Seems like a strained analogy with Iraq and Powel, but if you still want to make it you could replace "perfectly okay..." with "better for you and your family to choose your battles, don't resist when you're being arrested and interrogated, cooperate, and then, if you feel you've been the subjected to some injustice by the army, to make your case publicly afterward." Which sounds like sound advice, realistically speaking.
But I don't think you were going for a lucid analogy so much as expressing a desire to hold Powel accountable for any role he may have played in persecuting the war in Iraq. There's an intelligent debate to be had about that. Alas, that's a battle I don't want to choose right now.
@hilikusopus: Nah, I'll stick with my original analogy. The key difference you chose to make is to substitute the soldiers for the administration. That's a big difference. But it is curious that you think there is some forum where the Iraqi people can make their case in the great sometime-after (there isn't). Or that it would matter to the authorities (us) who haven't even felt that Iraqi civilian casualties were even important enough to count. Fifty-thousand to half a million, give or take, am I right?
Thanks, but I'll stick with my main point, which is that the case for war in Iraq is the starkest case of racial profiling I can think of in my lifetime. At a time when any raghead would do, the administration chose the most convenient target, the dude who'd been looking at us cross-eyed ever since we'd taken him off the payroll, never mind that absolutely no credible case could be made with the available evidence that Iraq posed any threat to us whatever. To extend the metaphor, which I think is very lucid, Colin Powell is the corrupt cop who plants a gun on the unarmed victim, except that he did it after the fact, with millions watching, at the UN.
That's what he gets to live with. He should keep his mouth shut about racial profiling.
@Mediahohoho: I don't think the best time for an Iraqi to redress the wrongs done to him or her is when they are getting sodomized, as you put it. Hard to do that when there's a gun pointed in your face or, in Gate's case, when you're in cuffs. That's just life experience and a lesson you have to learn growing up. To that extent, I was acknowledging Powell's logic, which you're using as a springboard to make your own valid point. But as I said, I think I'm just speaking to a point which you weren't intentionally addressing. I appreciate your sentiment, and I agree with you. I was nit-picking -- no worries.
As for Powell, he's a cop-out and blew all the credibility he has ever earned in a lifetime of service in about twenty minutes at the UN. He can't pick a wall paper pattern without the world second-guessing him now. I wish that were enough to exact revenge on those responsible for the approximately 100,000 Iraqi civilian casualties this war has created (not to mention the psychological, cultural, and material costs). I'm a skeptic, so I have a hard time believing that anything could have stopped Cheney and his cabal of neocons from knocking down the gates of Babylon.
@hilikusopus: Well, you're right that that's where the analogy breaks down. Gates had the option to just shut up and wait for the cop to get out of his house; your average Iraqi casualty had just a moment to think "oh shit" before the bomb turned him or her to incinerated human goo. Meanwhile the cop in the Iraqi house keeps hanging around, messing with the tchochkes.
I've never seen anything more arrogant than watching Colin Powell trying to tell Gates how he should be a better citizen. It's almost like Powell is white or even a white man with state power. Like a cop abusing his power. Like a fucking liar exercising state power to justify actions that will kill thousands of people. Like Kissinger. Only not quite as bad as Kissinger.
I think it's hilarious that anyone--white, black, yellow, brown or purple--is trying to say they wouldn't lose their shit if someone tried to arrest them for getting into their own home. Never mind the fact that brother had just flown in from China. AND was sick with some kind of flu! Puhlease.
@yourfriendandneighbor: As a person who works in a business where we think about security all the time, I can tell you I wouldn't lose my shit if a cop asked to see my ID after I'd just broken into my own home. I would lose my shit if he didn't ask. And yes, I make a lot of overseas trips as well.
@yourfriendandneighbor: No one tried to arrest Gates for breaking into his own home. The cops were investigating a burglary. Some people might "lose their shit" in that case, but maybe the cops should just go ahead and continue to investigate the burglary anyway. You know, just in case some bad guy has learned that all he has to do to make the cops leave is jump up and down and cry "racism."
Side note: What's with all the purple people being thrown in with the lists of races? Purple people have been mentioned a bunch of times, yet they are so rare in this country that I may only have seen as few as half a dozen in my life.
@yourfriendandneighbor: He's sick, jet lagged, cranky, and a cop shows up at his front door accusing him of breaking in, so of course he's going to overreact. And the cop is mad because some guy is calling him a racist when he's just trying to do his job, so he also overreacts. Both of them were out of line.
@optical_allusion: Agreed. Since when is it expected that you lose your shit on a cop asking to verify if that you are NOT breaking in to your own home??? Seriously, does everyone go around losing their shit on cops all day? They have power and guns. I tend to shut up and I never shut up. I'd say "here officer, I live here". Why is that so hard? Someone please answer that very obvious question. Why couldn't he just show his ID? Any other person would have been asked for ID in that situation.
I'd be glad someone cared enough to check to see why someone may be breaking in to my house. Next time, just let everyone break in. Then they'll be called racist for not responding promptly to a reported break in. They both acted out of line but if Gates had just not lost his "shit" the issue would have been OVER. He acted like a hothead and no one wants to admit it.
@yourfriendandneighbor: Because I have an allergy to being arrested, I would not have lost my shit. I mean, in my mind I would have lost my shit. After they left, I would have lost my shit. When I was on the phone with my attorney filing a civil action against the Cambridge Police Department (well, I wouldn't have done that, but on the short list of options one could imagine this might reside), I'd have lost my shit. But with police present, a cooler head would have prevailed, if for no other reason than self-preservation.
@WackoJacko: Would've been hard to get anywhere with that civil action if you didn't have the first name and badge number of the police officer who was in abuse of power, don't you think? Why is everyone pretending that Gates "lost his shit" simply because a nice lil' ol' cop meandered up to his door and politely asked him if everything was alright in there?
@bboston88: He DID show ID. He showed two forms of ID. It was clear they were no longer investigating whether he had any right to be in the house, since it was established that it was his house. Read the report!
He lost his shit because the cop wouldn't leave. If you just came back from a long trip, was sick and just wanted to go lie down and be alone, and the stranger in your house wouldn't leave, then yeah, I bet you'd lose your shit.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Ah, how soon we forget basic facts. The cop was already leaving, on his way to the car, when he decided his ego was hurt by the professor's mean words.
@allyzay: Look. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have been angry but I am programmed to never antagonize the police. I can't think of ANY instance or example in life where yelling at the police produced a desirable outcome in the person yelling. It's not fair, it's not right, but it's true. If you don't want to go to jail, don't antagonize the police. If you want to go to jail, antagonize the police.
I put together a Powerpoint presentation called "The Audacity of Home: How Not to Give New Meaning to the Term "House Arrest." This pretty much covers slide 2/2. Arguing with and insulting law enforcement gets you cuffed and often times arrested.
@afterabe: Yeah, but you should be able to argue with law enforcement. You just shouldn't be able to do it in such a way that you break other laws no matter how strongly you feel that the cops are in the wrong. However, you are probably correct in your assessment. Right or wrong, arguing usually gets you in trouble.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Oh please. You say people should be able to argue with cops, but you know that's not the case. And that has everything to do with the mentality of the police and nothing to do with effective law enforcement. Forgive me if you actually believe this, but if you do, you're in the vast minority.
@Mediahohoho: I chose the word "should" for a reason. You should be able to say, "look you're making a big mistake," or "you're dead wrong about this," or even "you're really fucking up here." However, when it comes to a situation where you are shouting in the cops face, you have crossed a line.
Example, a cop is sitting at the counter of a restaurant. He sees a customer standing and shouting at a waitress. The cop goes over and tells the guy that he has to stop or he will be arrested. The customer then very politely says in a normal tone of voice, "I'm sorry, officer, but she made a mistake on my order." No pissing match with the cop. Then he turns around and continues to shout at the waitress. Do you think he's not going to jail because he was polite to the cop and rude to a waitress that the cop doesn't even know? Of course he is locking the asshole customer up. He has an obligation to protect that waitress as well as the peace of other parties in the restaurant. Now, why would you think that the cop would have to take more crap himself than he would allow to be aimed at the people who he is sworn to protect?
Shouting at a waitress in a restaurant is not protected speech and neither is shouting at a cop on your porch.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Um, interesting analogy, but totally specious, as there isn't a third person here. And I submit to you the very simple line I draw in this case, with help from the U.S. Constitution. Here it is: once the cop found out Gates was in his own house, he (the cop) was trespassing, and his only job, since he had no warrant to be there, was to leave. Period.
@Mediahohoho: I don't think it has ever been established where the yelling stopped. If he followed the cop out and continued to yell, then it's likely that he was at least technically in violation of the law. I'm not sure how it works in Massachusetts, but there would have to be a definitive statement by Gates, before its actually considered trespassing. Usually there has to be a sign or a verbal announcement that the person is trespassing. A statement like "Get off of my property," would suffice. However, you're correct in saying that once the exigency is over, the cop no longer has a legal right to be there. It's just not automatic trespassing.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Well, I would hope you know the law about that better than me. My point is that the cop could have left without any danger being posed to the neighborhood. No offense intended, but implied in my social contract is that peace officers aren't entitled to hurt feelings. That said, I've never gone out of my way to provoke anyone in blue.
It's sad to watch Powell nowadays. He knows that he totally destroyed his own credability, which was his chief asset, and that he has to atone for it somehow. But no matter how hard he tries, the Iraq fiasco (and the UN speech in particular) just continue to hang over his head.
Oh, Rummy, Rummy, Rummy. They're not eager to shake your hand, they're trying to stink-palm you. And may your hands forever smell like ass, you miserable creep.
The three-ring binders of love are Rummy's Rosebud. Did he draw little pink hearts on the covers, like a 50s high school girl?
Of course, if Rummy had meticulously collected all the hate-mail, hate-e-mail, etc. he had received while Defense Secretary, he'd need an Indiana Jones-final scene-sized warehouse to store it all.
The GOP has effectively rendered itself irrelevant at this point, and much of this is due to ideological hardening of the arteries. I think Limbaugh is really just a form of plaque at this point. I'm okay with him continuing to gum up the GOP pipes a bit longer, and I think Powell is in some sense aware that the flatlining patient has not had room for moderates for quite some time. But bully on him for making the effort.
Meanwhile, David Brooks is frantically searching for the GOP's soul (working under the amusing premise that it actually has one) and is hoping to aid its rise, pheonix-like, from the ashes of its own self-immolation.
I'm @not2techy: I agree with you, but what I've come to realize over the past year is that Democrats are plenty conservative. Whatever remains of the Republican party can divide itself into the Jesus lovers who don't believe in solving long-term problems because the rapture is going to happen any day and therefore the only issue of consequence is what their neighbors are doing with their genitalia. The other party would be those like Rush who read an Ayn Rand novel in college and never have another political idea in their life but are damned sure every penny they ever "earn" (whether through inheritance or proximity to, ahem, government (which they hate and live off of like bottom feeding scum (Karl Rove)).
No, what needs to happen is for those two branches of the body politic to be amusing third and fourth parties and for a real liberal party to finally emerge in the U.S. because, frankly, the Democrats have never really gotten the job done for the people and--Blago, Blago, Blago--are just as corrupt as the other guys.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of living in a country that dresses right and righter and pretends its two woeful special interest blocs are actually different.
And if change is going to happen, quite frankly, this is the moment. There's actually someone apparently responsive and not yet calcified by age and indebtedness to the horrible dependence all on fundraising to which U.S. politicians are captive.
"Can we continue to listen to Rush Limbaugh? Is this really the kind of party that we want to be when these kinds of spokespersons seem to appeal to our lesser instincts rather than our better instincts?"
The question is, why did you ever listen to him in the first place? OK, i know why--crass opportunism. It gave the GOP a chance to move beyond the country-club and white-shoe law firm set to the guns, taxidermy, and Wal-Mart set, thus latching onto power with a vice-like grip for another generation.
But this is what Rush et al are. Despite being elephantine in ego, he hasn't gone rogue. Rush got his start in the radio market in which i live, and he's always been this way. And until this election, the GOP has been just fine with it, has had no problem with appealing to the baser instincts.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
You have the right to remain deferential.
07/29/09
07/29/09
By the way, a correction: Crowley was not investigating a burglary. He was investigating a possible burglary. He saw almost immediately that there was no burglary in progress.
07/29/09
Speak it like you live it, Mister Secretary.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
But I don't think you were going for a lucid analogy so much as expressing a desire to hold Powel accountable for any role he may have played in persecuting the war in Iraq. There's an intelligent debate to be had about that. Alas, that's a battle I don't want to choose right now.
07/29/09
Thanks, but I'll stick with my main point, which is that the case for war in Iraq is the starkest case of racial profiling I can think of in my lifetime. At a time when any raghead would do, the administration chose the most convenient target, the dude who'd been looking at us cross-eyed ever since we'd taken him off the payroll, never mind that absolutely no credible case could be made with the available evidence that Iraq posed any threat to us whatever. To extend the metaphor, which I think is very lucid, Colin Powell is the corrupt cop who plants a gun on the unarmed victim, except that he did it after the fact, with millions watching, at the UN.
That's what he gets to live with. He should keep his mouth shut about racial profiling.
07/29/09
As for Powell, he's a cop-out and blew all the credibility he has ever earned in a lifetime of service in about twenty minutes at the UN. He can't pick a wall paper pattern without the world second-guessing him now. I wish that were enough to exact revenge on those responsible for the approximately 100,000 Iraqi civilian casualties this war has created (not to mention the psychological, cultural, and material costs). I'm a skeptic, so I have a hard time believing that anything could have stopped Cheney and his cabal of neocons from knocking down the gates of Babylon.
07/29/09
07/29/09
....and somehow the Gawker gods saw it fit to randomly change my avatar to an Onion character just now. How bizarre. Is it a sign?
07/29/09
07/29/09
Edit: Okay, back to the Onion character again. Just a cruel cosmic joke, I guess. Where's a Jewish grandma to cheer me up when I need one?
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
Side note: What's with all the purple people being thrown in with the lists of races? Purple people have been mentioned a bunch of times, yet they are so rare in this country that I may only have seen as few as half a dozen in my life.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
I'd be glad someone cared enough to check to see why someone may be breaking in to my house. Next time, just let everyone break in. Then they'll be called racist for not responding promptly to a reported break in. They both acted out of line but if Gates had just not lost his "shit" the issue would have been OVER. He acted like a hothead and no one wants to admit it.
07/29/09
In addition to obtaining the ID of the resident with his own picture on it, of course.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
He lost his shit because the cop wouldn't leave. If you just came back from a long trip, was sick and just wanted to go lie down and be alone, and the stranger in your house wouldn't leave, then yeah, I bet you'd lose your shit.
07/29/09
Voice dissent? Here's your cell.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
Example, a cop is sitting at the counter of a restaurant. He sees a customer standing and shouting at a waitress. The cop goes over and tells the guy that he has to stop or he will be arrested. The customer then very politely says in a normal tone of voice, "I'm sorry, officer, but she made a mistake on my order." No pissing match with the cop. Then he turns around and continues to shout at the waitress. Do you think he's not going to jail because he was polite to the cop and rude to a waitress that the cop doesn't even know? Of course he is locking the asshole customer up. He has an obligation to protect that waitress as well as the peace of other parties in the restaurant. Now, why would you think that the cop would have to take more crap himself than he would allow to be aimed at the people who he is sworn to protect?
Shouting at a waitress in a restaurant is not protected speech and neither is shouting at a cop on your porch.
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
07/29/09
Too bad his public use of common sense kicked in about six years too late.
07/29/09
It's sad to watch Powell nowadays. He knows that he totally destroyed his own credability, which was his chief asset, and that he has to atone for it somehow. But no matter how hard he tries, the Iraq fiasco (and the UN speech in particular) just continue to hang over his head.
07/29/09
But yes, it does seem like he's trying to compensate by giving extremely diplomatic opinions these days.
07/29/09
For a quick minute, I thought he'd be able to do a Jimmy Carter and become a world's statesman.
But, while Presidents who start wars can do, I don't think a former general could.
07/29/09
06/22/09
06/22/09
06/22/09
Of course, if Rummy had meticulously collected all the hate-mail, hate-e-mail, etc. he had received while Defense Secretary, he'd need an Indiana Jones-final scene-sized warehouse to store it all.
12/12/08
Meanwhile, David Brooks is frantically searching for the GOP's soul (working under the amusing premise that it actually has one) and is hoping to aid its rise, pheonix-like, from the ashes of its own self-immolation.
12/12/08
No, what needs to happen is for those two branches of the body politic to be amusing third and fourth parties and for a real liberal party to finally emerge in the U.S. because, frankly, the Democrats have never really gotten the job done for the people and--Blago, Blago, Blago--are just as corrupt as the other guys.
Quite frankly, I'm sick of living in a country that dresses right and righter and pretends its two woeful special interest blocs are actually different.
And if change is going to happen, quite frankly, this is the moment. There's actually someone apparently responsive and not yet calcified by age and indebtedness to the horrible dependence all on fundraising to which U.S. politicians are captive.
12/12/08
12/12/08
The question is, why did you ever listen to him in the first place? OK, i know why--crass opportunism. It gave the GOP a chance to move beyond the country-club and white-shoe law firm set to the guns, taxidermy, and Wal-Mart set, thus latching onto power with a vice-like grip for another generation.
But this is what Rush et al are. Despite being elephantine in ego, he hasn't gone rogue. Rush got his start in the radio market in which i live, and he's always been this way. And until this election, the GOP has been just fine with it, has had no problem with appealing to the baser instincts.