crashes - Gawker

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Plane-Helicopter Collision's Air Traffic Controller: On His Cell, Talking About Dead Cats
Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
Helicopter And Plane Crash Over Hudson River
"No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
Black Monday: A Brief History of Crisis Headlines

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jamesdenver
08/15/09

In reply to Plane-Helicopter Collision's Air Traffic Controller: On His Cell, Talking About Dead Cats
They plane and helicopter were flying VFR - which means visual flight rules.

It's there responsibility to see and avoid. They can request flight following and advisories from control - but are under no obligation to use it. I don't know this area well but flight following almost always comes from departure/approach control - and rarely tower. (Towers see airport operations)

I'm hold a private pilot's license, and it sounds like they found a fun "cellphone controller" scapegoat. From what I see there's no huge blame to place - it was a simple high wing/low wing type accident.

The same thing happened in Denver with two small planes about seven years ago.
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thatgirlinnewyork
08/08/09

In reply to Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
the heliport should be removed from the west side permanently. cars darting in and out to ferry passengers have hit cyclists on that spot, and there's a takeoff every 5-10 minutes. there are far too many people enjoying the park land along the hudson, and it's a miracle one of those copters hasn't come down closer to the riverfront yet. take that ish to the UES.
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maines19
08/08/09

In reply to Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
The VFR corridor is still controlled airspace, though, isn't it? Wouldn't the copter and the small plane both have been in contact with air traffic control?
The thing about the Piper being a low-wing craft and therefore with poorer field of view below is true, but that shouldn't be construed to mean it's unsafe. High-wing craft (like Cessnas) have a similar problem with visibility above. And although JFK Jr. was flying a low-wing craft, I don't recall that being a factor so much as flying in poor visibility because they were late and didn't have time to wait for it to clear, not filing a flight plan, and his being relatively new to the particular airplane he was flying--basically, a set of circumstances that together conspired to put the pilot into a tougher spot than any one of them individually might have. My point being that the fact JFK Jr. was flying a similar plane when he crashed is probably not pertinent here.
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Foster Kamer
08/08/09

@maines19: Two high profile crashes, same plane. I disagree: it merits mention.
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Jim Topoleski
08/08/09

@maines19: The problem with the area is its one big traffic control NIGHTMARE. Newark, LaGuardia, and JFK all share traffic control responsibilities in the area, and as such dont really pay attention to the smaller stuff unless they get into the way of larger stuff.
I actually witnessed and was almost hit by a plane that disintegrated on impact a few years ago because it was coming in to Teterboro and misjudged its path in and landed in the forest behind my then girlfriends house before becoming a black spot on the street behind it.
Where in a traffic controller COULD have told him he was coming in wrong and that wasnt the airport he saw, because Newark (who should have been controlling him) is so over worked, they let him radio in his landing approach and then turned to other things.
To make it worse, they actually put the blame squarely on this guy, even though all records show Newark dropped the ball on it.
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Swifter
08/08/09

@maines19: The Hudson VFR corridor is below controlled airspace, last time I checked a sectional. For more info see this:
[www.germaise.com]

JFK, Jr. is dead because he was stupid, by flying VFR into IFR conditions.
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Edited by Swifter at 08/08/09 7:11 PM Swifter was starred Swifter was unstarred

SpyMagician
08/08/09

@Swifter: And this amateur pilot is dead and killed others have been killed because of why exactly?
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maines19
08/08/09

@Foster Kamer: I wasn't saying it should't be mentioned; just adding the clarification, without which one might draw the conclusion that this kind of plane is dangerous. As @Swifter points out, the plane wasn't a factor in JFK Jr.'s crash.
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irishflyesq
08/09/09

@maines19: There is no requirement that anyone flying at less than 1100 feet contact EWR center at the point where the impact occurred.
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SpyMagician
08/08/09

In reply to Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
What this all comes down to is some amateur pilot decided to take a joy ride in a very heavily trafficked bit of airspace and there you go. Accident.
The tour helicopters from Liberty are safe when you consider how many tours they have each day. Those guys are pros.
Just ban amateur pilots from flying in that airspace and a few others. This isn’t a low traffic zone and they are consistently the X-factor in stuff like this.
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Swifter
08/08/09

@SpyMagician: You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I have flown the Hudson VFR corridor many times. In the thousands of safe flights by hundreds of aircraft, mid-air accidents happen only once every few years.

Perhaps we should just ban amateur commenters from posting on high-traffic websites as they are consistently the X-factor in lunacy like this.
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Edited by Swifter at 08/08/09 5:35 PM Swifter was starred Swifter was unstarred

miss_msry
08/08/09

@Swifter: Just because you have a pilot's license, doesn't make you a seasoned, professional pilot. Know your limitations weekend warriors.

This wasn't for you Swifter, but for SpyMagician.
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Edited by miss_msry at 08/08/09 6:57 PM miss_msry was starred miss_msry was unstarred

Jim Topoleski
08/09/09

@miss_msry: Your statement should be expanded to EVERYONE. Seasoned pilots can be just as stupid and dangerous as "weekend warriors" if they dont pay attention to the limitations of their plane or the danger of the space they are traveiling in.
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Scarion
08/08/09

In reply to Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
We were at the playground with our kid near chelsea piers when it happened. About an hour before the "accident" my husband (who was in the military for 14 years) saw Marine 1 coming in for a landing, a half hour later he saw two A-10 attack planes. Then he saw part (the view was obscured) of the crash as it happened and tried to call 911, which was busy both times. Then we started seeing and hearing emergency vehicles. A freak accident... or a something more sinister?
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EinhornIsAMan!
08/08/09

@Scarion: Yes! I saw Moon with Sam Rockwell recently. It looked very realistic...too realistic. I leave this for you to decide-could it be, that they used the same soundstage to fake the moon landings?
Think about it.
A freak accident. Go back to distributing your leaflets about the 9/11 conspiracy.
Fucking idiot.
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Scarion
08/08/09

@EinhornIsAMan!: You don't have to be an asshole about it, Jerk-face. I was just laying out what my husband and I saw this morning. BTW: I love a good conspiracy theory, and I'm not saying that all the serious air-traffic we saw in southern-ish Manhattan is related, but it is quite a coincidence.
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Edited by Scarion at 08/08/09 5:03 PM Scarion was starred Scarion was unstarred

SpyMagician
08/08/09

The biggest conspiracy in the world is the fact that people don’t admit that other people are flawed and make mistakes.
Conspiracy theories that imply there is some well oiled machine causing all this "stuff" to happen miss the point entirely.
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aLostLady
08/08/09

@Scarion: Scarion, pay this little foible no mind. Methinks he's trying extra-hard to fill the recent void of the departed Iwillnotauditionforastar.
Also, for what it's worth, I found your anecdote to be interesting and will be mentioning it to my airplane expert of a boyfriend later.
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EinhornIsAMan!
08/08/09

@aLostLady: I'm a veteran of many a flame wars. I think they've finally taken their toll. Time to retire perhaps
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aLostLady
08/08/09

@EinhornIsAMan!: You do sound rather war-weary, my dear. It's ok. We've all been guilty of a knee-jerk reaction a time or two, especially on the 'nets. Take a little breather; you'll see that the editors are pretty fair here, and most commenters are lively and interesting.
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Magister
08/08/09

@Scarion: My money would be on coincidence, but I too thought your first-hand report was interesting.
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Iwillnotauditionforastar
08/08/09

In reply to Hudson Helicopter-Plane Collision Update: Bloomberg Statement, Theories, Impact Shot
So Foster, have you ever taken flying lessons?

And a pre-emptive fuck you to cockblockers.
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Foster Kamer promoted this comment

Foster Kamer
08/08/09

@Iwillnotauditionforastar: Nope, but I've been to Space Camp. Anyway: I'm not sure why Jezebel banned you, but they clearly had a good reason. You're gone. Feel free to harass me in the unapproved comments. Come back when you've got something interesting to add to the conversation.
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EinhornIsAMan!
08/08/09

@Iwillnotauditionforastar: Man, it's amazing what can get you banned. Ah, Iwillnotaudition for a star, your downfall was directly addressing an Editor in your "noncomment." Sucks to be banned at a whim for, who knows what, but such is the Gawker network
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aLostLady
08/08/09

@EinhornIsAMan!: Hah. Honey. You are obviously, painfully unacquainted with the commenter-troll formerly known as Iwillnotauditionforastar. Do a little research. All questions will be answered.
In the meantime, lay off Foster for doing his job. Believe me, he did us all a favor.
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snugbug
08/08/09

@EinhornIsAMan!: Oh, please. The "Miss Havisham, Party of One" virus, which just got neutralized, has been ad-hominem-ing not just the editors--in horrifically rude terms that made me gasp--but pretty much everyone who made the mistake to engage it. Whilst barfing hideously unfunny, repeat long-winded bs all over each item.
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EinhornIsAMan!
08/08/09

@aLostLady: I stand corrected. Perhaps this is from my days of commenting on Consumerist, where I'd see people addressing the moderator get banned for sport, while the real, sadistic trolls continued stealthily posting
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Foster Kamer
08/08/09

@EinhornIsAMan!: Commenters are welcome to come at me (I routinely encourage them), but sick, scary trolling - which this guy isn't a rookie to - merits banning. End of story.
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CaligulaSanchez
08/08/09

@Foster Kamer: After a google image search I have realized that I would like to come at you.
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aLostLady
08/08/09

@Randy Slamberg: You are encouraged to!
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CaligulaSanchez
08/08/09

@aLostLady: Rawr!
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Trixie from Toronto
08/08/09

@Randy Slamberg: Count me in.
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Topheel
08/08/09

In reply to Helicopter And Plane Crash Over Hudson River
This why using Twitter as a news source blows! It's just a bunch of yahoos yapping about what they "saw" or "heard" when in fact, what they know is usually wrong. And way to be on top of things Marc: "All six aboard helicopter have been rescued."
Too bad it looks now like all six have died.
This is why news outlets wait to report things. You get the facts first, then you report them. Just spewing a bunch of rumors, (oh sorry, I mean "reports") does nobody any good at all.
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Glib and Bitchy promoted this comment Edited by Topheel at 08/08/09 3:23 PM Topheel was starred Topheel was unstarred

Glib and Bitchy
08/08/09

@Topheel: Latest from AP:
" . . .authorities believed all nine people aboard the two aircraft were killed."
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Topheel
08/08/09

@Glib and Bitchy: Wow, the Twitteratti nailed that one didn't they. I was just looking at the tweets posted above and half of the idiot "witnesses" didn't even know that it was a plane and helicopter that collided. Way to go guys.
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Glib and Bitchy
08/08/09

@Topheel: But hey -- they did have it first.
(And to their credit, early tweets give folks a heads-up that something has happened . . . so go to a reputable news source to find out what.)
(Yes, I'm feeling charitable today.)
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Mymoustache
08/08/09

In reply to Helicopter And Plane Crash Over Hudson River
Why does Antderosa in the last twit spell survivors as "survivors"? Are they not really survivors? Wtf?
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Anthony De Rosa
08/08/09

@Mymoustache: Scanner reports are preliminary, and should be treated as such. I didn't want to give the idea that it was a confirmed report, but a "good sign" as I posted in my tweet.
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maevemealone
08/08/09

In reply to Helicopter And Plane Crash Over Hudson River
This is such a news FAIL, my friend has been sending more info from Hoboken than I've been able to get from the tv newsers. Gawd forbid CBS interrupt Strawberry Shortcake cartoons or CNN stop talking about healthcare crap...
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Foster Kamer
08/08/09

@maevemealone: Who else still doesn't have it? My TWC is fucked. Is CNN carrying a live feed still? Fox News?
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Edited by Foster Kamer at 08/08/09 1:05 PM Foster Kamer was starred Foster Kamer was unstarred

maevemealone
08/08/09

@Foster Kamer: Right now no local or national channels have any coverage, they have all returned to regular infomercial programming. Oh check that, Foxnews is the only current coverage. I have RCN (bc TWC sucks) so I don't get NY1 so can't confirm their coverage.
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maevemealone
08/08/09

@Foster Kamer: Grrrr... Foxnews expert pilot commentator: "the way to avoid crashes like this is to look around you and avoid things you see near you". Really?!
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NewsBunny
08/08/09

@maevemealone: Listen to the radio. My newsroom is kicking ass right now.
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limber
08/08/09

@maevemealone: I'm starting to wonder if our corrupt government installed some Superman villain-like magnet in Hoboken to draw down aircraft; surely it's not normal to be able to wander down to the waterfront with your coffee every few months and watch a mini disaster movie unfold in front of you?
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Trai_Dep
08/08/09

@maevemealone: Gods forbid they halt coverage on something that will shape our nation's well-being for decades to come, that'll be voted on in weeks and will affect literally every single one of us. Blurry videos of oil slicks on water and sensationalistic intrusions of grieving witnesses is much more germane. Real journalists: how dare they!
On the bright side, I'm sure there's a NASCAR race on, so if the grown-ups talking about substantive matters is totes boring, they've got something for you.
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nozer
08/08/09

@Trai_Dep: Thank you. I was about to post the same thing. Many, many, many, many more people die every day in car accidents. I'm glad CNN was still talking about healthcare. And as far as a news fail, I bet maevemealone's friend is irresponsibly just tweeting whatever rumor he hears.
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maevemealone
08/09/09

@nozer: @Trai_Dep: Hey smugholes, how about since it's a local story to me, that the sirens go screaming past my windows, I'd like to get some idea about what is happening in less than 3 hrs? Since the local stations felt it necessary to not interrupt Strawberry Shortcake and Care Bears reruns, I thought it would be helpful if I could get some info from someplace OTHER than twitter, which I don't follow. I can get health care debate rehashes and Dateline reruns for eternity.
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Stream Of Consciousness
08/08/09

In reply to Helicopter And Plane Crash Over Hudson River
If only Sully Sullenberger had been piloting that plane!
Okay, maybe I should wait to hear if there are casualties before I jest.
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Foster Kamer
08/08/09

@Stream Of Consciousness: There's already been one. But survivors are being reported and taken to the 30th Street helipad. What the fuck happened? Seriously!
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Stream Of Consciousness
08/08/09

@Foster Kamer: Damn. Well, no more of the jokes from me on this. Sorry to hear that. But yeah, wtf??!
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Smitros
07/18/09

In reply to "No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
What Happens When You Don't Use Condiments
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Halo_Override
07/18/09

In reply to "No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
Who are the cult members kneeling at the front? Discordians?
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Dominant Glee Club
07/18/09

In reply to "No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
I'm really relishing this picture.
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Caius
07/18/09

@The Dominant Glee Club: They were probably street racing, and went too fast to try to ketchup.
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naugahydeinplainsight
07/18/09

@The Dominant Glee Club: They're in a pickle, but it could be wurst. At least they don't need any kraut control.
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Dominant Glee Club
07/18/09

@ Caius, naugahydeinplainsight: I feel as though you are both dogging me, and I'm wondering if these jokes really cut the mustard.
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DorothyBarker
07/18/09

In reply to "No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
Devastated by the death of Oscar Mayer, no doubt.
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pubb13
07/18/09

In reply to "No, what I said was, 'I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY.'"
No, what I said was, "I want you to THROW your hotdog down my HALLWAY"
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peperony and chease
07/19/09

@pubb13: Wasn't this dlisted's caption too?
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pubb13
07/19/09

@peperony and chease: hmm, scarily similar... Of course, referencing a hipster grifter catch phrase never was that original to begin with.
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