I'm all for having it absorbed into Virginia. The idea of having it be a separate political entity with taxation but no representation is antiquated and dumb. Plus, I believe we set a horrible precedent when we relocated the capitol to some god-forsaken city in the middle of nowhere just to...you know, create a city in the middle of nowhere. Because of us, countries like Brazil, Nigeria and Australia have their politics centered other than the true national capital (Rio, Lagos and Sydney). And it was just a bad an idea for us as it is for them. What a shit hole.
If you make it its own state, then you have to make the Upper Peninsula of Michigan a state (Superior!) and those are some of the stupidest people on God's earth.
I'm going to come out with the conservatives on this one and say, just stick to the Constitution, lest you negate the truest criticism there can be of the Republican party after 8 years of shitting all over the document.
@Mediahohoho: Umm... Mediahoho, why would it be absorbed into Virginia? Look at a map. D.C. as it exists today never belonged to Virginia, it was all Maryland territory, and Maryland is the state that D.C. would be retroceded to. That said, of course (and Virginia's recent stint as a blue state aside) as a Washingtonian I shudder to think our fair city would belong to a redneck bastion like the Old Dominion.
@procrastinator, esq.: I bow to your quite comprehensive knowledge of this issue (while blushing at geographic ignorance). But I did like the idea of Virginia turning blue on a more permanent basis. I think the scandal here is that party politics are reason enough to keep a million or so fellow citizens disenfranchised. Fuck your political party: fix this shit.
@MisterHippity: Agreed. Black vs. white or Dem vs. GOP? They certainly overlap, but in this case I suspect its primarily a question of party, not race. The GOP only agreed to this because the bill also adds a congressional district to Utah to balance out the added Democratic seat. (Anyway, I don't see how you get around the phrase in the Constitution that gives representation to "the several states".)
@naugahydeinplainsight: @SnigdhaCheetah: And its those two additional Democratic senators that mean the GOP will never go along with full statehood (unless someone figures a way to add reliably GOP senators.)
Is it really because of black people? I mean, honestly? Really really?
I just don't buy that. Republicans have shown some pretty backwards ways of finding transparent arguments to cover some pretty obvious wink-nod racism. Dixiecrats did the same thing - after all, it's not racism, it's "Southern Tradition." Sort like the wink-nods of Sean Delonas' cartoons or the Confederate flag.
But this really is a constitutional thing. DC just isn't a state. We should make it one, though, or just assign its vote as half Maryland/half Virginia or SOMEthing. Hey, maybe 51-star flag sales could stim the ol' economy?
It isn't so much about "black people" per se ... but it is OBVIOUSLY about the fact that the majority of DC's population are liberal democrats. (But the fact that a majority of the the DC population are lower-income blacks probably has something to do with their voting proclivities.)
You think it's just a coincidence that only Republicans object to giving half a million motly liberal democrats a new representative in Congress? Really?
@ADismalScience: Nearly every single measure in Congress is politically motivated. It's not because of their skin color, it's because of their beliefs.
It's a clear-cut constitutional issue. I completely get the demographics comment, and I don't doubt that's driving some of this. But don't the obvious constitutional issues supercede that? We don't give Puerto Rico votes, and it's not because they're Conservative Hispanics - it's because they're a commonwealth.
People use transparent arguments to cover for racism all the time - the Confederate Flag debate is a perennial example. This is a bit different, don't you think? Though some of the same forces apply, no doubt.
@ADismalScience: I agree that it's unconstitutional, but it's also, quite obviously, the right thing to do as long as DC's residents continue to be taxed. So the solution to this is to make it a constitutional amendment, then. Only, the problem is that Republicans will not vote for such an Amendment (and their support would be needed for it to pass). So, yes, unconstitutionality is a problem. But that's not the driving reason Republicans won't vote for it -- otherwise, the Democrats would be able to pass a constitutional amendment
@ADismalScience: Also, I don't think this is racism -- I think it's political. And as to your example, I do think Puerto Rico should be given voting representation in Congress, considering that they pay taxes and our country was basically founded on the idea that governments shouldn't ask anything of their people if their people don't have representation in government.
"Most residents do not pay federal income tax but pay federal payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), and Puerto Rico income taxes. But federal employees, or those who do business with the federal government, Puerto Rico-based corporations that intend to send funds to the U.S. and others also pay federal income taxes. Because the cutoff point for income taxation is lower than that of the U.S. IRS code, and because the per-capita income in Puerto Rico is much lower than the average per-capita income on the mainland, more Puerto Rico residents pay less income taxes to the local taxation authority than if the IRS code were applied to the island."
It probably won't stick. Even if it did for some miracle, we're still missing the 2 senate reps so we're still fucked when it comes to Congressional representation. Congress passed an amendment for us in the 70s, but of course the states didn't ratify it. Fuck you, states.
In reality, what's the chance a long-time DC resident gets the seat vs. a Democratic operative who moved to the district to work for a lobbying organization/law firm/non-profit/Senator?
@Lymed: She would be the natural choice. I do wonder if she would face a large field in the primary, considering DC is a city littered with ambitious politicians.
@uninspired: I think it would be hard for somebody to run a real opposition campaign against her. There is a real recognition in the city that she has put in her time and she has tremendous name recognition.
@uninspired: Thank you for your almost head-smacking ignorance of D.C. politics. Eleanor Holmes Norton is the correct answer. The "Marion Barry still gets elected!" canard is getting old. And, as one of the most liberal cities in the nation, Washington isn't about to elect a smarmy lobbyist-cum-politician any more than any other city would. Give D.C. some credit -- its residents aren't kindergartners.
It is unconstitutional. Period. The reasons behind its intent are completely irrelevant.
Amend the constitution, make it a state, or let the surrounding states absorb the DC districts into their own (as has been done in the past). Or keep it status quo. The end.
"Warrantless wiretapping" and "undeclared wars" have nothing to do with this, so don't change the subject.
@Almostbanned: uhhh maybe i have my history wrong, but isn't "taxation without representation" unconstitutional? so based on your logic, DCers shouldn't be paying taxes, no?
@Almostbanned: It is hyproritcal to vote for warrantless wiretapping, knowing it's unconstitutional, and then publicly decry the measure to give DC a Congressional vote as unconstitutional. That is what the mention of wiretapping was about.
@SnigdhaCheetah: That's been an idea of many local politicians. Just start putting our money into an escrow account, not send it into the federal government.
@Almostbanned: ""Warrantless wiretapping" and "undeclared wars" have nothing to do with this, so don't change the subject."
Of course it is relevant. You can't crap on the constitution sometimes and then when it comes to giving people a motherfucking VOTE, then be all like 'but the constitution!' *whine*
I agree it is unconstitutional. As Alex says above, there's some hiding behind that to deny a vote to half a million people. And it sucks because these same people let the constitution get shat on the last few years.
@AwakenedDesires: Yep. Federal income tax in DC is almost entirely unconstitutional. They do have committee representation though, so that's something, but its a fairly tenuous argument.
@freedc: I'm not going to get into an argument about the wiretapping, but the constitution doesn't protect people in foreign countries from being subjected to wiretaps from our government. And we've never tapped a US-to-US conversation without at least a secret warrant. And you're crazy if you think Obama isn't going to continue this.
As far as the war goes, you can talk about that until you're blue in the face, because we've been involved with dozens of conflicts over the years, under the leadership of both parties, that technically haven't been 'declared' wars. And not once has anyone made a serious constitutional challenge to any of them in the end.
Anywho.... When DC was founded as our capital, it was never really intended to be a place where anyone actually LIVED full-time. You see, the founders envisioned citizen-politicians who would come to town a few months of the year, do the governments work, then return to their farms or jobs or businesses back home. So it was intentionally set up as a "phantom zone" to help discourage exactly the kind of permanent government we now have. It was also built on a malarial swamp for this reason as well. Now, reality being what it is, we have a half million people who do indeed live there full time and should have congressional representation. But the congress needs to do the required work to get them there, not just scream outrage that the situation exists and make insincere and unrealistic demands to score political points.
@Almostbanned: Your take on this history of Washington, D.C. is almost breathtakingly wrong. Included in this "phantom zone" were the already-thriving extant port cities of Georgetown and Alexandria (the latter of which was since ceded back to Virginia) with, surprise, a population of actual human beings. Until the District of Columbia became increasingly African-American around the turn of the 20th century, D.C. residents were able to vote for congressional representatives in Maryland and were able to elect their own city council and mayor. But post-Civil War, D.C. residents actually elected black people to the city council. So the white, elite people in the District begged the government to disenfranchise everyone, lest black people start having any sort of power.
And thus began the ridiculous disenfranchisement of Washington, D.C., which meant that Washingtonians could not vote for President until 1961, and could not even elect their own mayor until 1973. Yes, before 1973, the Federal government governed the city without citizen input.
So now, the District of Columbia, a jurisdiction containing more people than Wyoming and North Dakota, may have the opportunity to have one-third the representation its official fellow states have (because, don't forget, the idea of giving D.C. two senators would be radical).
The saddest part about this? The vast majority of Americans are truly in the dark about how disenfranchised Washingtonians are. And, if they knew, the vast majority of Americans would support full voting rights.
This is all simply un-American at its core. Fake protests against the constitutionality of it all are thinly disguised plots against giving African-Americans more power, Democrats more power, or both.
I'm startng to think DC is doing better without me. I leave and then Obama moves into the White House and Ms. Norton will get a vote...really DC, was I that bad?
Just so we're clear, that's the table where Warren Buffet, Tiger Woods, Nancy Reagan, Denton, Brian Williams, Angelina Jolie and the Google kids are going to toast the end of the world.
@Astigmatism: It's at the Hay-Adams hotel. Obama stayed there when Bush wouldn't kick his palls out of Blair House. I think Brian Williams will have to give up his seat to Obama.
Yeah I gotta call out the insult to Second Life people. I tried it once and was just unimpressed with the speed, graphics, etc. not the idea.
Gawker Media is wholly based on giving us a distraction from our lives. Just because we do it with more smirk doesn't take away that we are just as sad.
I mean, if there are any furries on Gawker, they've at least had the decency not to mention it. (Although, it would be cool if you could befriend a giant penis...)
02/27/09
02/27/09
If you make it its own state, then you have to make the Upper Peninsula of Michigan a state (Superior!) and those are some of the stupidest people on God's earth.
I'm going to come out with the conservatives on this one and say, just stick to the Constitution, lest you negate the truest criticism there can be of the Republican party after 8 years of shitting all over the document.
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
I ain't fleein' to no Vanilla Suburb.
I'll have The Funk.
02/27/09
I just don't buy that. Republicans have shown some pretty backwards ways of finding transparent arguments to cover some pretty obvious wink-nod racism. Dixiecrats did the same thing - after all, it's not racism, it's "Southern Tradition." Sort like the wink-nods of Sean Delonas' cartoons or the Confederate flag.
But this really is a constitutional thing. DC just isn't a state. We should make it one, though, or just assign its vote as half Maryland/half Virginia or SOMEthing. Hey, maybe 51-star flag sales could stim the ol' economy?
02/27/09
02/27/09
It isn't so much about "black people" per se ... but it is OBVIOUSLY about the fact that the majority of DC's population are liberal democrats. (But the fact that a majority of the the DC population are lower-income blacks probably has something to do with their voting proclivities.)
You think it's just a coincidence that only Republicans object to giving half a million motly liberal democrats a new representative in Congress? Really?
02/27/09
02/27/09
It's a clear-cut constitutional issue. I completely get the demographics comment, and I don't doubt that's driving some of this. But don't the obvious constitutional issues supercede that? We don't give Puerto Rico votes, and it's not because they're Conservative Hispanics - it's because they're a commonwealth.
People use transparent arguments to cover for racism all the time - the Confederate Flag debate is a perennial example. This is a bit different, don't you think? Though some of the same forces apply, no doubt.
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
Lifted from Wiki:
"Most residents do not pay federal income tax but pay federal payroll taxes (Social Security and Medicare), and Puerto Rico income taxes. But federal employees, or those who do business with the federal government, Puerto Rico-based corporations that intend to send funds to the U.S. and others also pay federal income taxes. Because the cutoff point for income taxation is lower than that of the U.S. IRS code, and because the per-capita income in Puerto Rico is much lower than the average per-capita income on the mainland, more Puerto Rico residents pay less income taxes to the local taxation authority than if the IRS code were applied to the island."
As we said in the beginning, no pay = no vote.
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
In reality, what's the chance a long-time DC resident gets the seat vs. a Democratic operative who moved to the district to work for a lobbying organization/law firm/non-profit/Senator?
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
Amend the constitution, make it a state, or let the surrounding states absorb the DC districts into their own (as has been done in the past). Or keep it status quo. The end.
"Warrantless wiretapping" and "undeclared wars" have nothing to do with this, so don't change the subject.
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
@Almostbanned: ""Warrantless wiretapping" and "undeclared wars" have nothing to do with this, so don't change the subject."
Of course it is relevant. You can't crap on the constitution sometimes and then when it comes to giving people a motherfucking VOTE, then be all like 'but the constitution!' *whine*
I agree it is unconstitutional. As Alex says above, there's some hiding behind that to deny a vote to half a million people. And it sucks because these same people let the constitution get shat on the last few years.
02/27/09
02/27/09
As far as the war goes, you can talk about that until you're blue in the face, because we've been involved with dozens of conflicts over the years, under the leadership of both parties, that technically haven't been 'declared' wars. And not once has anyone made a serious constitutional challenge to any of them in the end.
Anywho.... When DC was founded as our capital, it was never really intended to be a place where anyone actually LIVED full-time. You see, the founders envisioned citizen-politicians who would come to town a few months of the year, do the governments work, then return to their farms or jobs or businesses back home. So it was intentionally set up as a "phantom zone" to help discourage exactly the kind of permanent government we now have. It was also built on a malarial swamp for this reason as well. Now, reality being what it is, we have a half million people who do indeed live there full time and should have congressional representation. But the congress needs to do the required work to get them there, not just scream outrage that the situation exists and make insincere and unrealistic demands to score political points.
02/27/09
02/27/09
And thus began the ridiculous disenfranchisement of Washington, D.C., which meant that Washingtonians could not vote for President until 1961, and could not even elect their own mayor until 1973. Yes, before 1973, the Federal government governed the city without citizen input.
So now, the District of Columbia, a jurisdiction containing more people than Wyoming and North Dakota, may have the opportunity to have one-third the representation its official fellow states have (because, don't forget, the idea of giving D.C. two senators would be radical).
The saddest part about this? The vast majority of Americans are truly in the dark about how disenfranchised Washingtonians are. And, if they knew, the vast majority of Americans would support full voting rights.
This is all simply un-American at its core. Fake protests against the constitutionality of it all are thinly disguised plots against giving African-Americans more power, Democrats more power, or both.
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
02/27/09
they're mayor is hot, if that makes them feel any better.
01/08/09
01/07/09
01/07/09
That is all.
01/07/09
Gawker Media is wholly based on giving us a distraction from our lives. Just because we do it with more smirk doesn't take away that we are just as sad.
01/07/09
I mean, if there are any furries on Gawker, they've at least had the decency not to mention it. (Although, it would be cool if you could befriend a giant penis...)