Supposedly the big story in the Ukraine, is three teens who video-phoned themselves killing people. Boing boing says the videos are on the internet, but I don't want to go anywhere near that. Yuck yuck yuck.
Are we all automatons, ever-responsive to authority, with only a feeblest conceit of free will?
From what I've seen, there's a small group of inherently evil people, an enormous group of people who are capable of behaving very badly with the right incentives (status, wealth) and stressors (unemployment, poverty), and another small group of people who will do the right thing, whatever the cost.
If you're interested in these issues, I suggest you rent The Human Behavior Experiments, a documentary that explores the issue of why many people behave badly and the myth that's it's just a few bad apples. It discusses the Milgram Experiments and others, some of which were based on everyday events.
I'd actually been in some of those situations and I always was part of the "good" minority. Unfortunately, the film didn't get into the tension between the desire to fit in/be liked and the desire to do the right thing.
Well, if I can interject an optimistic note, there have been studies done about citizen involvement in muggings, accidents, etc. that do point out that people will get involved....if someone takes charge. Based on staged incidents of research participants who pretended to faint, or called for helped after being robbed, and involving a protagonist who instigated the bystanders to action ("Hey, we need a doctor. You, in the blue coat, call the cops. You with the glasses, get a blanket to cover her.". Or "Follow that guy"..." etc. When just ONE person stands up and takes responsibility AND encourages/instigates others to get involved, more people get involved and help. And, if I'm not wrong, follow-up studies show that the experience helps people to be more proactive the next time they see a situation where someone needs help.
"The Exception" by Christian Jungerson. About the level of violence and suspicion that can brew between three women in a work place. The work place happens to be a research center on genocide, and the author has a mind-bending-ly scary way of tying it all together into a commentary of social dynamics.
I'm sure our good friends George "Alfred E. Newman" Bush, Dick "I'm with Stupid" Cheney and Karl "Konzentrationslager" Rove can shed some light on this troubling aspect of human nature, given how they seem to be the fucking experts at getting people to participate in torture.
I thought that the APA and most scholars had agreed not to duplicate Milligram / Stanford Prison-like experiments because it caused fairly significant emotional trauma to the participants.
@Heneage: I thought so too. Even at the time, people were kind of appalled at what Milgram had put his volunteers through. We're still allowed to do that?
@Heneage: And one of the studies is out of Yale, an institution that should never be allowed to do any sort of social science experiments ever. Stick to the lit reviews.
My whole body actually shakes and recoils at the thought of inflicting serious harm on someone. I can't watch horror films, I can't watch detailed war movies, and I can't look at pictures of crime scenes. Inflicting suffering is something I cannot conceive of. I'd really like to think that I would not be so easily swayed by authority as to inflict harm on someone, but I guess I can't know that for sure.
I'm willing to commit atrocious acts of public performance, as long as an authority is giving the orders from behind the the unzippered mouth of a leather mask.
there's a great article in the nation right now about vigilante justice in algiers point (neighborhood of new orleans) right after katrina. the video accompanying the article makes me sick, and also makes me want to drive across the river and set that neighborhood on fire.
I can't kill anything but spiders and roaches. That's it.
Any other living thing, I deal with humanely. And that includes, humans...
And this is also why I can't watch those "SAW" movies because I can't watch humans inflicting pain, torture, and terror on other humans who are begging for their lives. Gross.
@JinxyMcDeath: I can't even kill a bug, I just grab them in paper towel and free them outside, and yet I feel certain I could easily bound and gag Bill O'Reilly and torture him in unspeakably vile ways for hours with great glee and delight.
Are we all automatons, ever-responsive to authority, with only a feeblest conceit of free will?
As the saying goes, the fish rots from the head -- we're more likely to be a better society if we had better leaders. Trouble is, in a democracy it's up to the people to elect such leaders, and there's no guarantee that they'll do so on a consistent basis.
@Pope John Peeps II: There are a lot of different elements in basic human psychology. And I think good leaders can make a difference. The whole point of the Milgrim study was how people respond to leadership.
@SarahHeartburn: But in Milgram's study there were a couple of people who refused to comply. I always took great comfort from that as a Psych 110 student; to me it meant that your attitude towards authority determined whether you would comply or not. I think we need to raise children to be questioning, annoying skeptics, not depend on electing someone to tell us how to be good.
@SaraRueful: Or they grow up with teachers saying "You have an ATTITUDE PROBLEM". Or so I'm told.
Or they get fired by incompetent arrogant dickheads. Uh, so I'm told.
I like to think I'm genetically predisposed to tell someone in a white lab coat to fuck off (since I have done so in similar situations several times in my life), but you never know until the chips are down and your course grade is on the line.
@Xylo: Attitude problem! That's practically my middle name! Funny how if someone (boyfriend, boss) treats you like shit, if you get upset about it, *you* have the problem. I will never apologize for standing up for myself. Ever.
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From what I've seen, there's a small group of inherently evil people, an enormous group of people who are capable of behaving very badly with the right incentives (status, wealth) and stressors (unemployment, poverty), and another small group of people who will do the right thing, whatever the cost.
12/19/08
I'd actually been in some of those situations and I always was part of the "good" minority. Unfortunately, the film didn't get into the tension between the desire to fit in/be liked and the desire to do the right thing.
It often comes at a cost.
[www.imdb.com]
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I guess they changed their minds...
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People suck.
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But the preposition at the end your sentence is killing me!
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Any other living thing, I deal with humanely. And that includes, humans...
And this is also why I can't watch those "SAW" movies because I can't watch humans inflicting pain, torture, and terror on other humans who are begging for their lives. Gross.
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As the saying goes, the fish rots from the head -- we're more likely to be a better society if we had better leaders. Trouble is, in a democracy it's up to the people to elect such leaders, and there's no guarantee that they'll do so on a consistent basis.
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Uh, er, or so I'm told.
12/19/08
Or they get fired by incompetent arrogant dickheads. Uh, so I'm told.
I like to think I'm genetically predisposed to tell someone in a white lab coat to fuck off (since I have done so in similar situations several times in my life), but you never know until the chips are down and your course grade is on the line.
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Who else could possibly have been unfamiliar with this study?