sorry to burst your bubble Brian but in "my day", I slept with more gay men than straight. I was hot, they were hot, so why not get down? May not have been either one of our long time prefrences but it was a Hell of alot of fun! Get over it and let people do whatever blows their skirt up....
I'm with you, cyn10559. I slept with way more women & young ladies after I came-out than when I was playing it straight..
And, yeah, it was the 80's and (as I remember it) I was hot too. #cyndilauper
I think it had less to do with the woman not being clean and more to do with the fact that he's a big homo and is, therefore, repulsed by vagina. That's just how it works. #cyndilauper
@mattchew03: Yeah, absolutely, however, I don't get the repulsion part and do find it kind of offensive. You have no idea how often I heard the same story about some poor guy's fumbling high school experience with a "disgusting" vagina. I don't get it, I'm a straight female and I do not find other women's vaginas disgusting, not exactly enticing, but not repulsive either. Most lesbians I know who have slept with men at some point in their lives never comment on finding the penis revolting. It always felt misogynistic to me... especially the "eewww gross" parts of the story. Also, I know that not all gay men feel this way-- some are kinda into it.
@pony_express: Maybe the penis isn't revolting because it is similar to a long, smooth, large finger -- and nobody finds fingers gross, as a rule; whereas the vage is a wet, stinky, hairy, deep, nasty hole that bleeds a lot. #cyndilauper
@pony_express: I don't usually like to link elsewhere on here, but this just may be the greatest thing you'll ever read on the subject: [wordsmoker.com]#cyndilauper
@Understater: No, I say it as a gay man who has seen the Vagina Monologues 3 times (including once with the late, fabulous Nell Carter), who still finds girl gash nasty. /ew/
@pony_express: I don't think it's uncommon for women to find the penis unattractive from an aesthetic standpoint---like Elaine said on Seinfeld, it's utilitarian, it gets you around, it's like a Jeep. For others, it's just a matter of being familiar with it. There is a theory that The Frog Prince was told to girls as kind of a fable about getting over the idea that male genitalia is repulsive. Once the princess fell in love with the frog and responded to him physically, he wasn't icky anymore. #cyndilauper
@bytememehard: and let's face it, an asshole is also occasionally bloody, sometimes hairy, and not always so fresh. But see?? That is what makes the world so great, so many parts to please so many discriminating palates, all of which have beauty, if only in the eye of the beholder.
@pony_express: a word to the "ew! vagina" geighs: us vagina having hags had your back in high school. how bout a little respect for us and our lady parts, thank you. #cyndilauper
@cocodevaux: Oh, we've totally got your back. It's the front where you're kind of...on your own. And really, only the bottom part of that. Because we really, really love hooters. I mean, in the interests of complete honesty, here. #cyndilauper
@pony_express: I'm not sure I agree. I have many, many lesbian friends and I've heard several of them talk about how they think "dangly bits" are gross.
It doesn't bother me and I don't take it personally. It's just something they don't like.
I think it's fair for some gay men to think pussy is gross. I don't think all of them feel that way. I suspect there is a whole range between being curious about it, being indifferent to it and flat out not liking it.
And I suspect that there are a lot of lesbians who fall into the same spectrum.
As much as I think Obama wants to change Washington, my guess is that Washington is already changing him. He's hardening, and I'm wondering if he even realizes it. In some respects, I think it's great that he got as much done as he did in his first 100 days, because from here on in, he's going to be more and more like them.
"Changes" are going to be slower, smaller, less effective and even hollow.
The reason I always preferred Hillary was because she had been in the game for so long that she knew how to play it. The devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
@BadKarma: I disagree. I think that Obama's true colors are finally showing. I'm just hoping that people who voted for him can stop denying it for long enough to final realize what they voted into the White House.
And once again, let me point out: the military will not be subjected to attacks because the release of photos of torture, but because of the torture itself. Why no one fucking gets this is beyond me. Yet another reason torture is just a bad fucking idea.
I like Obsma, and I supported him. I also hope he succeeds in getting some substantive form of health care reform.
However, I have never labored under the misapprehension that he lacks political calculation--indeed, he is possibly one of the shrewdest politicians we have ever seen in this country, which is why comics are still struggling to find ways to make fun of him and one of the reasons why the GOP is currently falling all over itself.
The photos and "Don't Ask/Tell" are political calculations pure and simple, and they both have the same root: Obama does not want to be seen by Middle America as unsupportive of the military.
He will happily sign a repeal of "Don't Ask," but he wants the initiative to come from Congress. He wants the courts to resolve the issue of the photos.
And while he is no doubt quite sincere in his desire to see some form of universal health care, this is also partly a political calculation, as securing real reform will cement a huge block of voters (i.e., those depending on it for their health care) to the Democratic party for years to come.
His immediate concern is to avoid tossing red-meat to the Right and giving them easy fodder for the charge that he is against the military or soft on defense.
Bill Clinton was elected on the promise of universal health care, and his administration was quickly sidetracked over the entire gays-in-the-military issue. While Obama may roll his eyes in private over the prejudices in Middle America and grit his teeth when he finds himself bending to them, he has lived there long enough as a black man to understand the political dangers inherent in stepping on the cultural tripwires.
@not2techy: I tend to agree with your analysis of the situation. However, I personally think that this is the perfect time to throw lots of red meat to conservatives. Their two main spokesnuts, Rush and Dick, can't break 20% approval ratings. Everything that comes from the Republican party these days sounds insane. But you're right, the repeal of Don't Ask needs to come from Congress, also known as the military's money tit.
@Don Servillas: I don't follow this sort of thing closely, but I'd be surprised to learn that Obama during his campaign made concrete promises that had already been rendered moot. What source is there for such promises? Campaign statements, I guess? I'm willing to be educated on this.
I can get behind this. He really has a charming way to criticizing, but I think we can agree it's a good idea to keep the Administration's feet to the fire.
@htotheomo: I agree. There's nothing that say that once you've supported a person for President you have to go along with every bad decision he makes. Unless you're a Republican apparently.
@Mediahohoho: I think the looming problem is that he's pissing us off with the issues we really care about and voted for him on. Also, he risks losing the veneer of credibility regarding change and transparency.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Not 100%. I still think you spout a lot of Fox News reflux. But, unlike a Republican, I have no problem criticizing the President when he fucks up. I agree with "don't ask, don't tell" and military tribunals. The rest of the issues are, to my mind, far more nuanced than that.
Would that the GOP and the vast majority of conservatives had had the cojones to speak up against Bush/Cheney at any point during their sad, slow fucking up of America.
@htotheomo: I'm willing to suspend judgment on change that needs to happen incrementally, but firing Arabic translators anytime after 9/12/01 is criminally stupid. I thought at least the criminal stupidity would end last January.
Personally, I don't think the danger is for Obama, I think it's for us. Obama's worst decisions have come in the realm of privacy and secrecy.
@Mediahohoho: I think lots of Republicans and conservatives had the cojones to speak up against Bush/Cheney. We did it by staying home and not voting for McCain and/or Republicans running for Congress. If Democrats and liberals showed the same level of cojones every now and then, we might actually see our politicians take more reasonable promises and then honor them.
@son of spam: That's bullshit. Of course the problems are complex, but Obama was a senator and had the entire brain trust of the Democratic Party during the campaign to consider these complexities, and with all that he took some positions cast as moral imperatives (e.g., closing Guantanamo). How much new information could he have heard after getting elected that would make him do a 180 on a moral issue?
@DaveCrabtree: Um, not voting for the guys once they left office isn't exactly standing up to them. In 2004, every ounce of information anyone needed to vote against Bush/Cheney was out there. You're projecting, wildly, that Obama and company will enjoy the same free pass Republicans have always given their leaders.
@DaveCrabtree: I think lots of Republicans and conservatives had the cojones to speak up against Bush/Cheney. We did it by staying home and not voting for McCain and/or Republicans running for Congress.
Staying home & watching television instead of voting is now "speaking up"? Does that make setting the table a "cotillion"?
Jesus, guys, some perspective here. Not voting for the Republican doesn't mean we didn't vote. Also, there were plenty of Republicans in Congress who were on the ballot again, so Bush not being there is hardly relevant.
What many financially conservative voters did this election was vote for a guy who we feared would spend us into oblivion (and so far he's certainly doing his best on that) because of the social and moral issues on which we thought he was right. And he's done NOTHING on those issues. He's not closing Guantanamo, he's restarting the tribunals, he's done nothing about don't-ask-don't-tell, he's not even willing to outlaw waterboarding. Yet you parse through the "complexities" and the political calculations to somehow explain that he's right to do nothing, that somehow when Bush allowed the government to do those things it was awful but when Obama allows them it's smart politics. That's bullshit.
If he wants to do one thing, take one little step in the direction of his campign promises, why not order the Armed Forces to cease their cashiering of gay soldiers pending a review by Congress of the current policy? That way he can take credit for doing something but insulate himself from blame for what Congress does. It wouldn't be nearly as craven as writing Lt. Choi a condolence note.
@DaveCrabtree: I think he's making mistakes, as I've said in this (or maybe another related) thread. But it's early in his presidency. What people reacted to in your earlier comment was that Republicans renominated and re-elected GWB despite all his worst blunders, save Katrina, in the first three years of his presidency. Libs never did, but conservatives cut that guy so much slack he hung us all.
Right now, all most observers can do is watch, raise objections (like young Mr. Stewart up here) and write strongly worded letters. A year and change from now we'll vote. Or, if the Republicans keep showing their staunch resistance to proposing anything new) not.
Let's see. I have the score going something like this:
Failing to release detainee photos - same as Bush.
Keeping military tribunals for the "enemy combatants" - same as Bush.
Public stance on Gay Marriage - similar to Bush (although the last time I heard him talk about this was on the campaign trail.
Don't ask don't tell - same as Bush and Clinton.
Deficit Spending - more than Bush.
The first two, I can excuse by saying that there may be reasons of which we are unaware. Truthfully, I support his decision on the first two, but I wanted the list to be longer so I included them.
The final three were wrong then and are wrong now. This is where I would have preferred to see the trademark "CHANGE" of the Obama Administration take effect.
@ChillbearLatrigue: The reason for the first two is technically, we're still at war. I'm on the fence about the timing of releasing the photos. Usually, that's the kind of that comes out after a conflict is over. Obama has to untangle the mess before he can do the post-mortem. And that takes time without leaving the region even more volatile than we left it.
But as for Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Stewart and you are spot on. The actual change may not happen overnight, but Obama still has to keep his intentions clear on the subject.
@ChillbearLatrigue: But you have to admit, Obama's decisions probably come out of reasoned inquiry rather than secret conferences with Jesus, Commentary magazine and Halliburton.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Thanks for saying this. There's a frightening amount of hero worship & delusion on the part of the president's supporters.
A lot people believed he'd shut down Gitmo pronto, end military tribunals for enemy combatants, stop wiretapping, pull us out of Iraq ASAP, draw down our military actions in Pakistan and Afghanistan, legalize pot, soften "don't ask don't tell", and bring some sanity back to budget spending.
@Ohcaptainmycaptain: I'm not disappointed yet that he doesn't done all of those thing, but boy, when he hits the 6-month-mark, bitch's time is up. In a related note, you people are ridiculous.
@skahammer: I'm no fan of GWB, but why do you feel that Obama's reasoning skills are far superior in this instance when they both came to the same conclusion?
@momof3wildkids: Because I think the areas in which the two men differ are more indicative of their respective reasoning skills than the areas where their decisions appear to be the same.
Does that seem farfetched? One only needs to hear very small samples of the two men's speeches to consider this conclusion.
It's a thing that always amazed me about GWB's reign -- so many people voted for him for president, even though in their personal lives they wouldn't have trusted him with their health or car or checkbook or the education of their children, based solely on the way he expressed himself.
@skahammer: I'm not saying GWB is a rocket scientist. However, by your statement above, I think most Southern men would be deemed imbeciles. A fair number of Southern men have an "aw shucks" off-the cuff demeanor when speaking. When you contrast that to Obama's polished, teleprompter-drive speaking, you may make the assumption that one is smarter than the other, but you may not be right.
You are correct that I wouldn't trust GWB w/my health, car, checkbook etc.. and yet I still voted for him. Not because of the way he expressed himself, but rather because he appeared to be the lesser of the two evils in each election. Many people I know voted against the other candidate versus for GWB.
Trust me, nothing could raise the US in world opinion that more transparency. Obama has an enormous approval rating here in Europe, and torture is seen as a part of the Bush administration. He's riding a wave of good will. He'd better not blow it.
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And, yeah, it was the 80's and (as I remember it) I was hot too. #cyndilauper
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It doesn't bother me and I don't take it personally. It's just something they don't like.
I think it's fair for some gay men to think pussy is gross. I don't think all of them feel that way. I suspect there is a whole range between being curious about it, being indifferent to it and flat out not liking it.
And I suspect that there are a lot of lesbians who fall into the same spectrum.
05/15/09
"Changes" are going to be slower, smaller, less effective and even hollow.
The reason I always preferred Hillary was because she had been in the game for so long that she knew how to play it. The devil you know vs. the devil you don't.
05/15/09
05/15/09
05/15/09
05/15/09
However, I have never labored under the misapprehension that he lacks political calculation--indeed, he is possibly one of the shrewdest politicians we have ever seen in this country, which is why comics are still struggling to find ways to make fun of him and one of the reasons why the GOP is currently falling all over itself.
The photos and "Don't Ask/Tell" are political calculations pure and simple, and they both have the same root: Obama does not want to be seen by Middle America as unsupportive of the military.
He will happily sign a repeal of "Don't Ask," but he wants the initiative to come from Congress. He wants the courts to resolve the issue of the photos.
And while he is no doubt quite sincere in his desire to see some form of universal health care, this is also partly a political calculation, as securing real reform will cement a huge block of voters (i.e., those depending on it for their health care) to the Democratic party for years to come.
His immediate concern is to avoid tossing red-meat to the Right and giving them easy fodder for the charge that he is against the military or soft on defense.
Bill Clinton was elected on the promise of universal health care, and his administration was quickly sidetracked over the entire gays-in-the-military issue. While Obama may roll his eyes in private over the prejudices in Middle America and grit his teeth when he finds himself bending to them, he has lived there long enough as a black man to understand the political dangers inherent in stepping on the cultural tripwires.
05/15/09
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05/15/09
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05/15/09
05/15/09
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05/15/09
Would that the GOP and the vast majority of conservatives had had the cojones to speak up against Bush/Cheney at any point during their sad, slow fucking up of America.
@htotheomo: I'm willing to suspend judgment on change that needs to happen incrementally, but firing Arabic translators anytime after 9/12/01 is criminally stupid. I thought at least the criminal stupidity would end last January.
Personally, I don't think the danger is for Obama, I think it's for us. Obama's worst decisions have come in the realm of privacy and secrecy.
05/15/09
Stupid syntax.
05/15/09
@son of spam: That's bullshit. Of course the problems are complex, but Obama was a senator and had the entire brain trust of the Democratic Party during the campaign to consider these complexities, and with all that he took some positions cast as moral imperatives (e.g., closing Guantanamo). How much new information could he have heard after getting elected that would make him do a 180 on a moral issue?
05/15/09
05/15/09
Staying home & watching television instead of voting is now "speaking up"? Does that make setting the table a "cotillion"?
05/15/09
Jesus, guys, some perspective here. Not voting for the Republican doesn't mean we didn't vote. Also, there were plenty of Republicans in Congress who were on the ballot again, so Bush not being there is hardly relevant.
What many financially conservative voters did this election was vote for a guy who we feared would spend us into oblivion (and so far he's certainly doing his best on that) because of the social and moral issues on which we thought he was right. And he's done NOTHING on those issues. He's not closing Guantanamo, he's restarting the tribunals, he's done nothing about don't-ask-don't-tell, he's not even willing to outlaw waterboarding. Yet you parse through the "complexities" and the political calculations to somehow explain that he's right to do nothing, that somehow when Bush allowed the government to do those things it was awful but when Obama allows them it's smart politics. That's bullshit.
If he wants to do one thing, take one little step in the direction of his campign promises, why not order the Armed Forces to cease their cashiering of gay soldiers pending a review by Congress of the current policy? That way he can take credit for doing something but insulate himself from blame for what Congress does. It wouldn't be nearly as craven as writing Lt. Choi a condolence note.
05/15/09
Right now, all most observers can do is watch, raise objections (like young Mr. Stewart up here) and write strongly worded letters. A year and change from now we'll vote. Or, if the Republicans keep showing their staunch resistance to proposing anything new) not.
05/15/09
Failing to release detainee photos - same as Bush.
Keeping military tribunals for the "enemy combatants" - same as Bush.
Public stance on Gay Marriage - similar to Bush (although the last time I heard him talk about this was on the campaign trail.
Don't ask don't tell - same as Bush and Clinton.
Deficit Spending - more than Bush.
The first two, I can excuse by saying that there may be reasons of which we are unaware. Truthfully, I support his decision on the first two, but I wanted the list to be longer so I included them.
The final three were wrong then and are wrong now. This is where I would have preferred to see the trademark "CHANGE" of the Obama Administration take effect.
05/15/09
But as for Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Stewart and you are spot on. The actual change may not happen overnight, but Obama still has to keep his intentions clear on the subject.
05/15/09
05/15/09
A lot people believed he'd shut down Gitmo pronto, end military tribunals for enemy combatants, stop wiretapping, pull us out of Iraq ASAP, draw down our military actions in Pakistan and Afghanistan, legalize pot, soften "don't ask don't tell", and bring some sanity back to budget spending.
Is anyone disappointed?
05/15/09
05/15/09
05/15/09
Does that seem farfetched? One only needs to hear very small samples of the two men's speeches to consider this conclusion.
It's a thing that always amazed me about GWB's reign -- so many people voted for him for president, even though in their personal lives they wouldn't have trusted him with their health or car or checkbook or the education of their children, based solely on the way he expressed himself.
05/15/09
You are correct that I wouldn't trust GWB w/my health, car, checkbook etc.. and yet I still voted for him. Not because of the way he expressed himself, but rather because he appeared to be the lesser of the two evils in each election. Many people I know voted against the other candidate versus for GWB.
05/15/09
05/15/09