If you do a search for studies about second hand smoke, you'll find that quite a few have found that there is very little or no connection between second hand smoke and smoking related illnesses (including the largest study every done which spanned 40 years.)
@squeakel: I've seen that. But there's also the data that shows an immediate drop in sudden deaths from heart attack when smoking is banned in bars (and a return to previous levels when the ban is rescinded). For me, that was pretty instructive, even when I was still smoking.
Is that among smokers or non-smokers, though? I would expect there to be a drop in the general population because more people quit smoking when it's banned in public, but being around smokers socially isn't going to give you heart disease. #smoking
@green-grey: You make a good point about non-smokers not smoking when there's a ban. I believe this is just raw numbers of sudden deaths of bar-goers from heart attack (at least that what I remember from some western city, I think Helene, where they had a ban then rescinded it). To be honest, I don't know about the other studies, but I do believe it's just identifying a correlation. But I think what impressed me is that it was including both smokers and non. Also, not heart disease, but heart attacks. #smoking
Life insurance companies are already allowed to surcharge smokers and overweight people and everyone goes along with that because they do present a higher risk. I don't see much difference with this. #smoking
Funny. Smoking bans had nothing to do with my decision to quit. However, since I quit in January, I was really grateful about not having to parade my overcoat and deserting self down the hallway at work when I wanted a smoke, my own personal admission of vice, weakness, selfishness--whatever you want to call it--in front of my coworkers four or five times a day. Also, I reeked. #smoking
@BadUncle: I thought it was the lack of clothing underneath the overcoat at work that symbolized a porn addiction. Hence, those goosebumps BadUnc is sporting. #smoking
I should point out that it was January 2007 when I quit. A few months later my then-fiance (she quit the same day as me) and I went ahead, got married and conceived little Ohhohoho, which was the real motivation for quitting. No wonder it took me 30 years after starting the habit to quit it; you have to have a reason, and authority flexing its muscles--or even shame--is not a reason. #smoking
@Princess Sparkle Pony: Yeah, it's like, oh lookee there, it's old Lungy McLoogiehocker right on time for his mid-morning fix. Let's have a meeting! #smoking
Are you saying it's somehow incorrect or wrong for those with statistically higher yearly medical expenses to pay more for their insurance? When you're 16-20, your car insurance is higher because statistically- teens crash more and that costs more.
And insurers charge more if you are on heart medication, have chronic illnesses - why is this different? To me, this is now a correction of the old system where those with "healthy habits" subsidized those without them.
I mean - if you want to smoke, go ahead - but then pay what it costs to fix you up when you need it. #smoking
@FormerEnglishMajor: Those with "healthy habits" always subsidize those with bad habits. That's how insurance works. Moreover, in the first place obesity is itself often not a dangerous or expensive health condition (though it is sometimes symptomatic of bad habits), and therefore a poor metric for evaluating the habits of the individual in question. #smoking
@braak: The big difference now (vs. years ago), is that medical technology has advanced, so that smokers don't die as young as they used to, and can live with emphysema, lung cancer, etc. for years longer; and the subsidies of the healthy now fall short of what it costs to keep a smoker who falls ill alive and "healthy" (in a relative sense). I'm no apologist for the insurers, but I have researched a lot on medical costs, and while there is plenty of blame to go around on why health costs have skyrocketed, the two tough facts are (a)that they have, and (b) people live longer, after they have gotten sick. #smoking
@FormerEnglishMajor: Well, that's probably why the best thing to do is just to raise everyone's health insurance rates, so that you don't price the smokers out of being insured (a problem you'd end up paying for eventually, anyway, when they go to the hospital for cancer treatments and then default on their debts), and instead increase the amount of social pressure on them to stop smoking.
Though, being a heavy smoker is something that I can see reasonably having an increased insurance burden. I was more worried about the obesity issue, or the issue of chronic illness. If you're a smoker, you're responsible for many of your health problems. If you're diabetic, it's not because you had "unhealthy habits." #smoking
In the diocese I belong to, they asked that we refrain from the Sign of Peace (shaking of hands and offering a "peace be with you" for those non-mackrel snappers) when the swine flu first came out.
They gave up the wine cup for a while too. The communal wine cup always skeeved me out -- and not just because it was crappy wine.
Our pediatricians' office policy on vaccinations didn't leave any room for dissent, any leeway in scheduling vaccinations differently. As our doctor explained, the English quack who recommended staggering or diving vacs later admitted that he'd suggested that purely out of thin air.
Thing is, there are all manner of reasons to freak out when it comes to your kids' health and safety. The cottage industry in blaming vaccinations, however, is about as scientific and reality-based as a good old witch hunt. Our pediatrician is old enough to vividly recall holding kids as they died of diseases we now have vaccines to prevent.
My kid? Healthy as a freaking horse. But I just touched wood when I said that. Tomorrow, I'm scheduling his next round of shots.
@Mediahohoho: Absolutely. The most skilled and caring peds docs that I know take that same stance: I won't help you commit child abuse because of your ignorance.
The only pediatricians that don't require adherence to the correct schedule are either the very few who actually believe that anti-vax hype (i.e. either don't understand evidence based medicine or so egotistical that they ignore it even when its reached the point of lunacy to do so) or the vast majority that don't agree with alternate vaccination schedules but go along with parents either because its easier or as a means to 'appease the customers'.
To neither type would I ever consider taking my child. The truly anti-vax ones are just plain ignorant. The appeasers are the same ones who will prescribe unnecessary antibiotics to parents who demand them and who currently are flattening the supply of tamiflu liquid by rx-ing it to every kid with a fever (regardless of whether they meet CDC criteria for being at increased risk or not.) You don't want a pediatrician who feels it necessary to appease the 'customer' because if you want the best care for your kid, you want one who sees your child as their patient; their responsibility; but never in a million years a customer.
This is Cassandra. I am not anti-vaccinations, nor was I ever. Nowhere in the column did he say I'm against vaccinations. If you read Joel's column more carefully, you'd see that I was (and am) concerned about some of the ingredients in some of the vaccines. Which is why I decided on spacing some of the vaccines out a little. (Read Dr. William Sears' very balanced, pro-vaccine book and there's a section in there about studies regarding aluminum overload in babies). Giving the Hep B vaccine at birth is a very new practice and our baby will get the vaccine soon. Long before his teen years. (Which, again: Joel did not say we are vaccinating OUR baby for Hep B when he's a teen). Get your facts straight and stop jumping to slanderous conclusions. It's really pathetic that gawker passes judgments and even blatant lies like this. But on the other hand, it kinda makes me feel like a celebrity! (P.S. Note to this commentator "NickelMD": I hope you are not really a doctor. Any doctor that would write "I should be able to piss in a cup and make them drink it after I finish beating them bloody" is clearly a disturbed person who should not be in the field of medicine).
You obviously do not understand the term hyperbole.
You are also in precisely the same camp as anti-vaccine whackjobs, with the exception that you are more subtle in your quackery. And I will admit, my hat is off to the skill at dissembling that the anti-vaccine whackjob who came up with the PR friendly slogan 'Green our Vaccines' that suggests proponents aren't 'anti-vaccine' but rather 'pro-safe-vaccine'.
I mean, hell, who isn't 'pro-safe-vaccine'? Even Satan incarnate to the anti-vax movement (Researcher Paul Offit) would be considered 'pro-safe-vaccine' (since he's spent his entire career making vaccines safer and more effective.) However, the 'pro-safe-vaccine' mantra that claims 'too many too soon' or that claims unacceptable levels of toxins are present in vaccines (which they aren't) is to the old-school purely anti-vaccine movement what holocaust minimizers are to holocaust deniers. They are the same steaming turd, but with a PR smiley face tacked on.
And while a detailed discussion of why Dr Sears' book is so incredibly dangerous is going way beyond the scope of this post, I would suggest that you read the following: "The Problem With Dr Bob's Alternative Vaccine Schedule." Offit and Moser. Pediatrics. 123: 164-169. 2009. (Of course that's the in house journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics.... and we all know how much they want to poison your baby and give it to a pack of dingos.)
If you don't have access to a medical library, you could also try the following post on Orac's page at Scienceblogs: [scienceblogs.com]
@Sigerson: I'm not convinced that BC is the real Cassandra Berry, unless her hatred of Gawker has faded over the last two years. I would hope that:
a) the wife of a writer would know the difference between libel and slander (to help you remember, slander is spoken, libel is literary);
b) the wife of a writer would realize that in repeatedly using her and the kid for column material, Stein has pretty much made them into public figures of a sort, reducing the effectiveness of any claims of libel; and
c) the wife of a writer would know the difference between a commenter and a commentator.
10/16/09
10/16/09
Here is one among many:
[www.webmd.com]
There are quite a few that DO find a connection, of course. It's hard to know what to believe with so much conflicting information. #smoking
10/16/09
10/16/09
[www.google.com] #smoking
10/16/09
Maybe you can hand out bacon? #smoking
10/16/09
Is that among smokers or non-smokers, though? I would expect there to be a drop in the general population because more people quit smoking when it's banned in public, but being around smokers socially isn't going to give you heart disease. #smoking
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I should point out that it was January 2007 when I quit. A few months later my then-fiance (she quit the same day as me) and I went ahead, got married and conceived little Ohhohoho, which was the real motivation for quitting. No wonder it took me 30 years after starting the habit to quit it; you have to have a reason, and authority flexing its muscles--or even shame--is not a reason. #smoking
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*snort* #smoking
10/16/09
10/16/09
And insurers charge more if you are on heart medication, have chronic illnesses - why is this different? To me, this is now a correction of the old system where those with "healthy habits" subsidized those without them.
I mean - if you want to smoke, go ahead - but then pay what it costs to fix you up when you need it. #smoking
10/16/09
10/16/09
10/16/09
Though, being a heavy smoker is something that I can see reasonably having an increased insurance burden. I was more worried about the obesity issue, or the issue of chronic illness. If you're a smoker, you're responsible for many of your health problems. If you're diabetic, it's not because you had "unhealthy habits." #smoking
10/09/09
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By "church," I mean "detached garage," and by "the other congregants" I mean "my private shame."
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They gave up the wine cup for a while too. The communal wine cup always skeeved me out -- and not just because it was crappy wine.
10/09/09
10/09/09
09/20/09
Thing is, there are all manner of reasons to freak out when it comes to your kids' health and safety. The cottage industry in blaming vaccinations, however, is about as scientific and reality-based as a good old witch hunt. Our pediatrician is old enough to vividly recall holding kids as they died of diseases we now have vaccines to prevent.
My kid? Healthy as a freaking horse. But I just touched wood when I said that. Tomorrow, I'm scheduling his next round of shots.
09/21/09
The only pediatricians that don't require adherence to the correct schedule are either the very few who actually believe that anti-vax hype (i.e. either don't understand evidence based medicine or so egotistical that they ignore it even when its reached the point of lunacy to do so) or the vast majority that don't agree with alternate vaccination schedules but go along with parents either because its easier or as a means to 'appease the customers'.
To neither type would I ever consider taking my child. The truly anti-vax ones are just plain ignorant. The appeasers are the same ones who will prescribe unnecessary antibiotics to parents who demand them and who currently are flattening the supply of tamiflu liquid by rx-ing it to every kid with a fever (regardless of whether they meet CDC criteria for being at increased risk or not.) You don't want a pediatrician who feels it necessary to appease the 'customer' because if you want the best care for your kid, you want one who sees your child as their patient; their responsibility; but never in a million years a customer.
09/20/09
09/20/09
09/20/09
You obviously do not understand the term hyperbole.
You are also in precisely the same camp as anti-vaccine whackjobs, with the exception that you are more subtle in your quackery. And I will admit, my hat is off to the skill at dissembling that the anti-vaccine whackjob who came up with the PR friendly slogan 'Green our Vaccines' that suggests proponents aren't 'anti-vaccine' but rather 'pro-safe-vaccine'.
I mean, hell, who isn't 'pro-safe-vaccine'? Even Satan incarnate to the anti-vax movement (Researcher Paul Offit) would be considered 'pro-safe-vaccine' (since he's spent his entire career making vaccines safer and more effective.) However, the 'pro-safe-vaccine' mantra that claims 'too many too soon' or that claims unacceptable levels of toxins are present in vaccines (which they aren't) is to the old-school purely anti-vaccine movement what holocaust minimizers are to holocaust deniers. They are the same steaming turd, but with a PR smiley face tacked on.
And while a detailed discussion of why Dr Sears' book is so incredibly dangerous is going way beyond the scope of this post, I would suggest that you read the following: "The Problem With Dr Bob's Alternative Vaccine Schedule." Offit and Moser. Pediatrics. 123: 164-169. 2009. (Of course that's the in house journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics.... and we all know how much they want to poison your baby and give it to a pack of dingos.)
If you don't have access to a medical library, you could also try the following post on Orac's page at Scienceblogs: [scienceblogs.com]
09/20/09
09/21/09
a) the wife of a writer would know the difference between libel and slander (to help you remember, slander is spoken, libel is literary);
b) the wife of a writer would realize that in repeatedly using her and the kid for column material, Stein has pretty much made them into public figures of a sort, reducing the effectiveness of any claims of libel; and
c) the wife of a writer would know the difference between a commenter and a commentator.
But I clearly expect too much from people.