No one should be upset at the cancellation of this dreck. It was a mercy kill. Doesn't Joss have enough clout now to a) avoid Fox and b) retain creative control over his product? Honestly, though, I still can't get over him thinking that Faith could do anything but be Faith. Why not just follow Dushku around South side Boston and be done with it? #dollhouse
Speaking of Fox: On this week's "House," they had a Whedonesque, beloved-by-geeks writer whom the doctors suspecting of roofie-ing and taking advantage of a teen girl fan in his hotel room. It turned out he didn't do it (she had a medical condition that made her lie about everything, or something -- who can ever tell?), but he still came off as a sleazeball.
Maybe that was the network's way of telling Whedon goodbye. #dollhouse
I love Buffy and Angel to death, and enjoyed Firefly. Dollhouse, I will admit, really grabbed me once it hit its stride. The season one finale "Omega" is a great bit of television.
But Whedon is really starting to show his limits: half the characters on Dollhouse were retreads of characters he'd done before, for example, and I think he handled the 'memory and personality as comprising identity' thing with more subtlety and grace during the Dawn and Illyria plots on his first two shows.
I'm also getting tired of his work invariably involving rape (symbolic or literal) as a transformative agent for women, because it's starting to really come across as his sexual fantasies on screen. I couldn't get into Serenity (the film) because of this - it just read to me as a broken little girl being tortured until she became someone/something Joss wanted to bone.
Basically I think he needs to take some time off for self-reflection and maybe learn to edit a little bit. He's a talented guy, but he's worn himself thin enough that all his flaws are showing. #dollhouse
@eleusiswalks: Interesting take, you might be onto something. For me, "Buffy" was the only truly great show. I've often wondered if this might be due to the writing of Marti Noxon, now working on "Mad Men," and not Joss Whedon. #dollhouse
@once: That's definitely not the case, as Marti Noxon's tenure as show-runner on Buffy (season 6 in particular) was its absolute nadir. He may be a limited fetishist, but she was a total mess on that show. I think she's even apologised for it. #dollhouse
Wow, a lot of bite in this article. Of course, I can see why you're jaded - we've been through this song and dance once before, but the condemnation of Dushku seemed uncharacteristically strong.
Of course, what's Sarah Michelle Gellar doing these days...? #dollhouse
@Cicada: I think the consensus was that FOX would only renew one or the other and settled on Dollhouse because T:SCC had already been given one renewal
T:SCC was also probably more expensive for FOX, since the network would be paying license fees to Warner Bros for the Terminator rights, while it was producing Dollhouse, well, in-house.
No leaked memos, to my knowledge, but I do seem to remember that when the axe finally came down, one of the FOX execs made some ridiculously self-contradictory remark about how it wasn't an "either/or" decision, but they "ultimately chose Dollhouse, so that was it for T:SCC"
@Sergio Hernandez: That is some effing stupid studio exec logic right there. Why link the fate of two different shows in that way? It also sounds like they were thinking about money before anything else, and I know they had Whedon slash his budget for season 2 under threat of getting the axe.
I'm sure we'll see another low-budget reality show fill the slot left by Dollhouse. Bleh. #dollhouse
@Cicada: "It also sounds like they were thinking about money before anything else..."
They are a television network. Of course they were thinking about money before anything else. Things do what they are designed to do - spiders spin webs, fish swim, corporations seek profit. It constantly surprises me that people expect otherwise. #dollhouse
@Sleepyhead: Oh, of course they were thinking about money. I should clarify: they were taking the short view with regards to profit vs. the long view with regards to developing a lasting audience for the series (and possibly greater profits).
I canceled my cable months ago for just this reason. I'd rather pick and choose the content I watch via Hulu or Netflix than wade through hours of crap on network television. Why pay for all the dreck? #dollhouse
@Cicada: This thread could have been about toothpaste commercials and I promise there would have been a comment along the lines of "Thats why I canceled my cable..." blah blah blah.
Oh, and network television generally refers to the free stations that are broadcast with or without cable. generally when one is paying for cable it is for stations such as food network, bravo, comedy central, etc... Those aren't generally considered network television, they are considered cable television.
The whole "I canceled my cable over this" is an old line.... just like "I threw up in my mouth a little bit". If you don't watch TV or don't find value in cable, then fine - but why does every article about a tv show have to include such statements?
Its not like I'll be talking with my friends this wekeend about Dollhouse and then chime in with, 'Well, you know, its crap like this that caused Cicada on the Gawker Forums to cancel their cable subscription. " #dollhouse
@eXo: To clarify: I don't have an antenna, so without cable I don't get decent reception on any network television channels either. I suppose I could pay for an antenna, but meh.
Also, you're probably seeing a lot of people comment about canceling their cable because they are: [www.homemediamagazine.com]
I thought the comment was pertinent to the situation because we were talking about Fox using a short-sighted business model, where they make money now but drive off consumers like me. And it isn't just Fox, it's pretty much every network. I watch around four television shows a week, all via internet, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
One last thing: I hope for your friend's sakes that you never bore the shit out of them with stories about random internet commenters. Just the thought of someone doing that makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
As a HUGE fan of Firefly and Serenity I was more upset that he wasn't penning a sequel to the latter, and instead was fascinated with like boyish adoration for this whole Dollhouse biz, and his web videos, and being a general egotistical, Tim Burtonesque prima donna.
Yah, yah, he says no studio was interested in a Serenity sequel, despite huge DVD sales, fan reverence, and shameless plugs from the cast post-movie...but, you know, yeah, if there's no script...perhaps not. Seemed this whole Dollhouse Dushku love-fest was really just a distraction and a long disinteresting cat-toy for Fox. They were over it after a few episodes, and right they should have been. It sucked. If you absolutely must put Dusku in something...she'd make a great character in what?....oh, yeah, a Serenity sequel.
So I say, c'mon Whedon, try and market your success, pen a new script, and do the damn thing! It seems the whole cast either isn't doing anything at all (Castle...whatever) OR they're already on sub par Sci-Fi shows (V can spare Baccarin and Tudyk), but all have left the door open for you and seem to be waiting for the call.
@secretagentman: The last officially tracked sales numbers were more than $24 million in 2006, with the movie debuting in 2005, but of course that was 3 years ago and there are still sales being made.
I have to say I liked this show MUCH better than Buffy, which was highly overrated. It was smart - not just snappy dialogue smart, but truly, deeply , authentically smart. #dollhouse
The saddest part about this is that Dollhouse really did have a lousy start, but it's totally hit it's stride now and is a fantastic show. At least Whedon has already given Dollhouse an ending, so all of us fangirls and boys can have closure.
Whedon will continue to make good product, and his fans will eagerly await whatever comes next. #dollhouse
@daveyjonesisdead: I never watched it because the concept, as you described and it was originally marketed screamed for pay cable. I just didn't want to watch love dolls and be left unsatisfied. #dollhouse
@Magister: That's another problem with how Fox handled the series. Whedon was making a show about free will and slavery and Fox was marketing it as soft-core Dushku porn. I imagine some folks were turned off by the marketing, while the ones who liked it were disappointed by the show itself. #dollhouse
The relationship between Joss Whedon and Fox is like that of a modest-looking girl who keeps on going back to her unstable boyfriend who constantly cheats on her or wets the bed during sex.
Time to retire the Whedon myth? Once, maybe I can accept the network mistreated a quality show. Twice, OK, but I'm getting wary. Three times a fanboy-acclaimed show gets cancelled "way too early?" That leads me to believe the problem lies with the fanboys. #dollhouse
@NotSafeForLife: Why? Receiving the imprimatur of a mass audience is hardly a guarantee of quality. Not receiving it isn't either, mind you; neither case proves much of anything. BTVS was definitely badly mishandled by both the WB and UPN. Since neither of those networks exists as an independent entity anymore, their marketing skills are clearly pretty questionable. #dollhouse
@NotSafeForLife: Meh. It just means the fanboys aren't into the same things that the people who made "Two and A Half Men" a hit are into. No surprise there. #dollhouse
@NotSafeForLife: Frankly, Whedon seemed to not be terribly enthusiastic about the show from the start and was complaining about the direction Fox wanted to take it in before it had even aired. I watched the first season and thought it was decent, but I wasn't interested enough to keep watching. "Firefly" remains the best thing he's done. #dollhouse
I love Broadway and musicals, and Shrek received some good reviews, but looking at that picture makes me want to kill everyone involved in it.
I understand that the end of Shrek signals a lot of people losing their jobs, but thank god that overblown trash is shutting down. I hope the entire Broadway-spectacle-industrial-complex comes crashing down around itself so some creativity can find a home. #shrek
@nozer: it's a chicken-and-egg problem. The audience now is mostly tourists, and they want the Broadway Spectacle. So that is what gets funded. Not sure if the spectacle drove away the locals and is now self-perpetuating, but if your paying customers want X.... #shrek
@FormerEnglishMajor: Definitely, further proof that free market systems just don't work.
But seriously, my hope would be that as more tourists stop coming to see these shows that the whole Broadway economy would contract, causing less money to get funneled into it. This would hopefully cause producers to seek out quality since they can't have quantity. Or the entire industry could just crash. I think when theater is genuinely good or buzz-worthy, NYers will flock to it, and tourists will begin to pay attention to it. The way it exists right now, however, is just really sad. It reminds me of the kind of shows you can watch at a Six Flags.
Maybe if we didn't have Shrek, The Little Mermaid, and Rock of Ages, tourists wanting a Broadway experience would still go see Patti Lupone in Gypsy or Passing Strange or the recent revival of Company. Those might not be the most revolutionary nights in theatre, but I think they at least represent an attempt for artistic merit. #shrek
Sadly, the House of Cards series will never succeed unless it gets picked up by a cable net. If it remains true to the miniseries and the novel, the main character is far too eagerly evil and ruthless to be palatable for mainstream American audiences. Or, they could dumb it down like they have any number of other British adaptations and ruin it, which I guess is far more likely than a good cable run. #shrek
@TipsyVonDrinklestein: Having been unfortunate (read: drunk) enough to see the series finale of the US adaptation of Life On Mars, I must concede to your point. And the sad thing is, I don't think Americans are against ruthless unlikeable characters (professional wrestling continues to do very well, despite all odds), I just think television producers continue to look at polling from 1960 and make their decisions from there. #shrek
@ampersandparade: Also, see "Cold Feet", "Teachers", "Men Behaving Badly", and the failed attempt to produce "Top Gear". I definitely think there's a huge problem of network executives underestimating their audiences.
However, "King of Queens" was very successful so I could be wrong. Sigh. #shrek
@TipsyVonDrinklestein: The Top Gear situation can also directly link back to the NBC thread about the failure of that network to understand how to appeal to anyone, ever, under any circumstances. The idea that Knight Rider had anything to do with Top Gear is laughable.
But truth be told, I could easily see NBC making the American Top Gear very 'Spike TV' thinking that women are not interested in cars, and it suffering similar defeat. Maybe the best think Americans could do is take five minutes to come up with an original creative idea, or to import the original British idea without sticking it on BBC America. #shrek
@TipsyVonDrinklestein: Could have a lot to do with Brit series having more flexibility than the US, too -- are there US series that have had only two or three series, intentionally, even if they're popular? That seems key, as does the shorter run element.
Also, "Spaced" and "Green Wing" are both on Hulu right now. The Hulu gods will make a killing if they keep that up for all good Brit series... #shrek
@limber: I also think the major networks have a very distinct fear of showing unpalatable, but successful, characters.
Look at "Bodies". That series was a horrifying look at incompetent doctors in a hospital--incompetent and unpunished (for the most part). The FU character from House of Cards is the same way--despicable, but victorious (again, for the most part). The teachers in "Teachers" are unmotivated, show up to work hung over, and make dubious choices where their students and jobs are concerned. They're also very human. But never in a million years would they portray teachers in a light like that on NBC, or any other major network.
And yes, limiting series is great! It keeps them fresh. I believe that telenovelas often do the same and are wildly successful. #shrek
@TipsyVonDrinklestein: I did once get the UK "Teachers" theme in my head, abruptly and without warning. I was totally confused until I realized Andrew Lincoln was BIKING towards me along the Caledonian Road, thus kicking off the theme instantly, Palov-like. It was a great day.
You're right, many of the shows aren't uplifting. But they are awesome, which helps. #shrek
11/11/09
11/11/09
Maybe that was the network's way of telling Whedon goodbye. #dollhouse
11/11/09
But Whedon is really starting to show his limits: half the characters on Dollhouse were retreads of characters he'd done before, for example, and I think he handled the 'memory and personality as comprising identity' thing with more subtlety and grace during the Dawn and Illyria plots on his first two shows.
I'm also getting tired of his work invariably involving rape (symbolic or literal) as a transformative agent for women, because it's starting to really come across as his sexual fantasies on screen. I couldn't get into Serenity (the film) because of this - it just read to me as a broken little girl being tortured until she became someone/something Joss wanted to bone.
Basically I think he needs to take some time off for self-reflection and maybe learn to edit a little bit. He's a talented guy, but he's worn himself thin enough that all his flaws are showing. #dollhouse
11/12/09
11/12/09
11/11/09
Of course, what's Sarah Michelle Gellar doing these days...? #dollhouse
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Living as the answer to a trivia question. #dollhouse
11/11/09
11/11/09
I'd much rather have had a third full season of a doomed but great show than a second season of a mediocre and doomed show. Meh. #dollhouse
11/11/09
ETA: I've seen this subject brought up before and am just wondering if there's some fact behind it. Did some Fox memo leak or something?
11/11/09
T:SCC was also probably more expensive for FOX, since the network would be paying license fees to Warner Bros for the Terminator rights, while it was producing Dollhouse, well, in-house.
No leaked memos, to my knowledge, but I do seem to remember that when the axe finally came down, one of the FOX execs made some ridiculously self-contradictory remark about how it wasn't an "either/or" decision, but they "ultimately chose Dollhouse, so that was it for T:SCC"
11/11/09
I'm sure we'll see another low-budget reality show fill the slot left by Dollhouse. Bleh. #dollhouse
11/11/09
They are a television network. Of course they were thinking about money before anything else. Things do what they are designed to do - spiders spin webs, fish swim, corporations seek profit. It constantly surprises me that people expect otherwise. #dollhouse
11/11/09
I canceled my cable months ago for just this reason. I'd rather pick and choose the content I watch via Hulu or Netflix than wade through hours of crap on network television. Why pay for all the dreck? #dollhouse
11/13/09
Oh, and network television generally refers to the free stations that are broadcast with or without cable. generally when one is paying for cable it is for stations such as food network, bravo, comedy central, etc... Those aren't generally considered network television, they are considered cable television.
The whole "I canceled my cable over this" is an old line.... just like "I threw up in my mouth a little bit". If you don't watch TV or don't find value in cable, then fine - but why does every article about a tv show have to include such statements?
Its not like I'll be talking with my friends this wekeend about Dollhouse and then chime in with, 'Well, you know, its crap like this that caused Cicada on the Gawker Forums to cancel their cable subscription. " #dollhouse
11/13/09
Also, you're probably seeing a lot of people comment about canceling their cable because they are:
[www.homemediamagazine.com]
I thought the comment was pertinent to the situation because we were talking about Fox using a short-sighted business model, where they make money now but drive off consumers like me. And it isn't just Fox, it's pretty much every network. I watch around four television shows a week, all via internet, and I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.
One last thing: I hope for your friend's sakes that you never bore the shit out of them with stories about random internet commenters. Just the thought of someone doing that makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit.
11/13/09
11/11/09
Yah, yah, he says no studio was interested in a Serenity sequel, despite huge DVD sales, fan reverence, and shameless plugs from the cast post-movie...but, you know, yeah, if there's no script...perhaps not. Seemed this whole Dollhouse Dushku love-fest was really just a distraction and a long disinteresting cat-toy for Fox. They were over it after a few episodes, and right they should have been. It sucked. If you absolutely must put Dusku in something...she'd make a great character in what?....oh, yeah, a Serenity sequel.
So I say, c'mon Whedon, try and market your success, pen a new script, and do the damn thing! It seems the whole cast either isn't doing anything at all (Castle...whatever) OR they're already on sub par Sci-Fi shows (V can spare Baccarin and Tudyk), but all have left the door open for you and seem to be waiting for the call.
Pick up the phone.
/rant over. #dollhouse
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Whedon will continue to make good product, and his fans will eagerly await whatever comes next. #dollhouse
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
But again, I never really paid that much attention. #dollhouse
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/12/09
11/12/09
10/30/09
10/22/09
I understand that the end of Shrek signals a lot of people losing their jobs, but thank god that overblown trash is shutting down. I hope the entire Broadway-spectacle-industrial-complex comes crashing down around itself so some creativity can find a home. #shrek
10/22/09
10/22/09
But seriously, my hope would be that as more tourists stop coming to see these shows that the whole Broadway economy would contract, causing less money to get funneled into it. This would hopefully cause producers to seek out quality since they can't have quantity. Or the entire industry could just crash. I think when theater is genuinely good or buzz-worthy, NYers will flock to it, and tourists will begin to pay attention to it. The way it exists right now, however, is just really sad. It reminds me of the kind of shows you can watch at a Six Flags.
Maybe if we didn't have Shrek, The Little Mermaid, and Rock of Ages, tourists wanting a Broadway experience would still go see Patti Lupone in Gypsy or Passing Strange or the recent revival of Company. Those might not be the most revolutionary nights in theatre, but I think they at least represent an attempt for artistic merit. #shrek
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
However, "King of Queens" was very successful so I could be wrong. Sigh. #shrek
10/22/09
But truth be told, I could easily see NBC making the American Top Gear very 'Spike TV' thinking that women are not interested in cars, and it suffering similar defeat. Maybe the best think Americans could do is take five minutes to come up with an original creative idea, or to import the original British idea without sticking it on BBC America. #shrek
10/22/09
Also, "Spaced" and "Green Wing" are both on Hulu right now. The Hulu gods will make a killing if they keep that up for all good Brit series... #shrek
10/22/09
Look at "Bodies". That series was a horrifying look at incompetent doctors in a hospital--incompetent and unpunished (for the most part). The FU character from House of Cards is the same way--despicable, but victorious (again, for the most part). The teachers in "Teachers" are unmotivated, show up to work hung over, and make dubious choices where their students and jobs are concerned. They're also very human. But never in a million years would they portray teachers in a light like that on NBC, or any other major network.
And yes, limiting series is great! It keeps them fresh. I believe that telenovelas often do the same and are wildly successful. #shrek
10/22/09
You're right, many of the shows aren't uplifting. But they are awesome, which helps. #shrek