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New York, 10:58 PM
Sat Dec 5
14 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Image of Lizawithazee Lizawithazee
    10/11/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    This is not doubt preaching to the choir, but eventually Congress needs to act, right? (Executive Order or no). So we should be lobbying our Reps and Senators really hard now that he's made this public statement. Who is the best candidate to lead the charge with legislation? I am not that familiar with which legislators would support it, which would not, and which are swing votes, other than assuming that do some degree it would fall along party lines.

    Anyone? I know some of you follow this closely.
     Reply
    Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred
    Image of TulsaVisitor919 TulsaVisitor919
    10/11/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    Not to be adversarial, but he DOES have some power to end "don't ask, don't tell." I'm a lawyer, and my understanding is that he can issue an Executive Order to suspend enforcement of the law by ordering the military to stop making a legal "finding" that a person is gay. He can also suspend enforcement under the national emergency powers (basically the president can do anything he/she sees fit to protect us in "wartime."). Thus, while Congress makes the law, he has a loophole around it (keeping the law unaffected technically, but ordering the military to not "find" anyone gay) or to confront it head on under the emergency powers doctrine. The first method simply walks around the law, the second trumps it for security purposes, but both have the effect of rendering it null and void in practice.

    I personally think he should suspend the law, but that's open for discussion. The legal possibilities available to him as Commander-in-Chief are not open to discussion.

    Here's a very accurate article that explains his power in readily accessible prose. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:-YCKHbce8tsJ:www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/obama-to-fire-his-first-g_b_199070.html+can+obama+end+don%27t+ask+don%27t+tell+executive+order&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas approved this comment TulsaVisitor919 was starred TulsaVisitor919 was unstarred
    Image of PaisleyPajamas PaisleyPajamas
    10/11/09

    @TulsaVisitor919: This is good news and an answer to the debate on the thread.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas was starred PaisleyPajamas was unstarred
    Image of braak: You are, as usual, completely correct. braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
    10/11/09

    @TulsaVisitor919: I agree that suspending the law would be a good choice, but is still only a short-term solution. It may be that he fears that Congress's willingness to actually change the law might be weakened if they saw him just suspend it.
     Reply
    braak: You are, as usual, completely correct. was starred braak: You are, as usual, completely correct. was unstarred
    Image of Jim Topoleski Jim Topoleski
    10/11/09

    @TulsaVisitor919: You're completely right (forgot about executive orders) but all this will do is suspend it, not remove the law meaning if they cant get the removal of the law passed in congress, then any president who takes over would be able to overturn the suspension.

    Likewise Obama's not been one to flat out use tools like executive orders to get his way like Bush was. I have a feeling while he will push to end it, he will leave an executive order as something of a last resort.
     Reply
    Jim Topoleski was starred Jim Topoleski was unstarred
    Image of CLY CLY
    10/11/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    "Obama's taken hits for not being able to fulfill campaign promises"

    I wish people will give him his 4 years to fulfill those promises instead of a few months.
     Reply
    CLY was starred CLY was unstarred
    Image of friendlynerd friendlynerd
    10/11/09

    @CLY: apologists like you make me sick. He has the power to act on one of his promises with the stroke of his pen, and yet he won't. Why?
     Reply
    friendlynerd was starred friendlynerd was unstarred
    Image of apollo89 apollo89
    10/11/09

    @friendlynerd: Because he does not have the power at the stroke of a pen. The executive order would be illegal, and if it were to be tested or revoked with the next president before legislation, we're back at square one.

    An executive order would only make the politicians lazy about legally repealing the LAW. It is a law, which means it is required by congress to overturn.
     Reply
    allyzay promoted this comment apollo89 was starred apollo89 was unstarred
    Image of CLY CLY
    10/11/09

    @friendlynerd: Well I am sorry to make you sick, even I don't know how I am an apologists by pointing out that President Obama has 4 years to achieve the things he wants to do. Not a few months, or a year, or 2 or 3, but 4 years.

    Sorry if you don't like that.
     Reply
    CLY was starred CLY was unstarred
    Image of Dot Dot
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    Anyone see the SecNav on The Daily Show this week? Hot hot hot, and verrry willing to do what we the people ask. (I have some ideas cute SecNav. Come here.)
     Reply
    Dot was starred Dot was unstarred
    Image of spotted-dog spotted-dog
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    whatever he just wants their money. and the little bourgeois vanilla beans will give it to him.

    he just talks. in fairness, i didn't listen to the speech (nor will i). i will take everyone's word that it was magnificent. i got tired of his bloated rhetoric last year. at this point i could care less what he has to say. i want to see things done.

    he is a liberal democrat with a democratic house and a democratic senate (both with liberal democratic leadership). if not now, then when? he needs to grow a pair and shove his agenda down the throats of america. if the republicans had the white house and congress they would not hesitate to do exactly as they pleased. they would enact every reactionary, corporatist, civil rights shredding law they saw fit.

    the dems picked the wrong candidate. too late of course. fucking excellent.
     Reply
    Dot promoted this comment spotted-dog was starred spotted-dog was unstarred
    Image of Dot Dot
    10/10/09

    @spotted-dog: No kidding, ram it down their throats. Not like the 'publicans can be any more pissed off and annoying than they are right now anyway.
     Reply
    Edited by Dot at 10/10/09 10:59 PM Dot was starred Dot was unstarred
    Image of afterabe afterabe
    10/10/09

    @spotted-dog: I'm not certain I understand or agree with the idea that just because someone else does something, you have the right to do it too. I hated the last 8 years, + I don't want another American to endure what I did simply because there's a Dem in the White House. There is something to be said for civility, even if a good portion of the country seems to have lost all sense of it.
     Reply
    allyzay promoted this comment afterabe was starred afterabe was unstarred
    Image of spotted-dog spotted-dog
    10/10/09

    @afterabe: i agree with your sentiment but he's being too civil on this issue.
     Reply
    spotted-dog was starred spotted-dog was unstarred
    Image of Lizawithazee Lizawithazee
    10/11/09

    @spotted-dog: I appreciate your fire and agree to a point. But I don't think Obama is that liberal (as his actions demonstrate). And the Dems picked the candidate that could get elected. I doubt any of the others, though they have may fine qualities, were more electable.
     Reply
    Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred
    Image of Baroness Baroness
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    Magnificent speech. I understand the skepticism, but listen to him. It's historic, I slowly realized as I watched. What other President has ever given such a major speech in heartfelt defense of GLBT people? The practicalities of what can be done on the road ahead might be bumpy- and he was quite honest about that- but I do not doubt his sincerity.

    It really is a powerful moment in not just gay history, but American history, to have a President address gay issues so directly, supportively, sometimes movingly, sometimes humorously. Gaga!
    Obama blows me away again tonight.
     Reply
    Baroness was starred Baroness was unstarred
    Image of Dot Dot
    10/10/09

    @Baroness: Me too. I've decided, once again, he's my husband. Michelle will be a wonderful sister wife, don't you think?
     Reply
    Dot was starred Dot was unstarred
    Image of BowlingForDollars BowlingForDollars
    10/11/09

    @Dot: @Baroness: with all due respect, I'm assuming neither of you is gay.

    I am and I'm sick of being a second class citizen. If I can't have all of the privileges of every other US citizen, then please lower my taxes. I'm sick of paying for other people's kids to attend school, for subsiding health care, for assisting married folks who get tax breaks and some more stuff I can't think of right now.

    Talk is cheap and until Obama takes action on the things he mentioned tonight, then I'm not holding my breath.
     Reply
    Edited by BowlingForDollars at 10/11/09 12:52 AM BowlingForDollars was starred BowlingForDollars was unstarred
    Image of sweetpiece sweetpiece
    10/11/09

    @Baroness: I agree wholeheartedly! I found him inspirational! I pray he follows through.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment sweetpiece was starred sweetpiece was unstarred
    Image of RedLineRage RedLineRage
    10/11/09

    @BowlingForDollars: Exactly. I'm pretty disappointed in Obama right now. The Pentagon has issued an opinion that DADT be revoked, and he still hasn't acted. What is he waiting for? I served in the Army for 4 years, and was an Arabic translator in the first Gulf War. I may have reenlisted if I had been able to serve openly and honestly. It's a shame, really.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment RedLineRage was starred RedLineRage was unstarred
    Image of PaisleyPajamas PaisleyPajamas
    10/11/09

    @RedLineRage: Your story is one that has been told over and over--how many enlisted speak freakin' Arabic? And at this stage of the game (8 years now) we think we can be choosing people based on sexual orientation, because it may undermine the camaraderie of the fox hole? They should have done something about the rapists who have caused so many female enlisted to go AWOL rather than face the lack of justice on that front. BASS-ACKWARDS!
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas was starred PaisleyPajamas was unstarred
    Image of Colonel Mustard Colonel Mustard
    10/11/09

    @BowlingForDollars: Agreed. I really do appreciate the gravity of this speech, and I am very glad that the president continues to publicly espouse support for the LGBT community, but...after a while it's all talk, and talk alone only goes so far before it starts seeming disingenuous.
     Reply
    Colonel Mustard was starred Colonel Mustard was unstarred
    Image of Anthony De Rosa Anthony De Rosa
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    Nothing new here. It's time for Obama to start working on "Don’t Talk, Just Do" and that goes for a lot more than "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell."

    They don't give Nobel Prizes for promises. Oh, wait...
     Reply
    Edited by Anthony De Rosa at 10/10/09 10:02 PM Anthony De Rosa was starred Anthony De Rosa was unstarred
    Image of JacquesPaysan JacquesPaysan
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    I don't understand if this is a good thing or not. Does that mean that it's okay to be gay and a Marine, or does it just reaffirm the no gay military thing in more explicit fashion.

    Also: if we're going to say to gay recruits, "here's your rifle, Iraq's that way," could we also legalize gay marriage? That way their partners could at least inherit what few possessions they have when they get blown in half by an IED.
     Reply
    JacquesPaysan was starred JacquesPaysan was unstarred
    Image of Meiyou Wenti Meiyou Wenti
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    He should make it happen now and be crystal clear about it. What is he waiting for, his next speech before to Congress? Enough talk and lofty ideals. Play hardball Obama and make this happen. Now.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment Meiyou Wenti was starred Meiyou Wenti was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    10/10/09

    @Meiyou Wenti: Sadly, Obama's not so good with the hardball thing. He's too busy trying to play nice with everyone in the sandbox.

    He should enlist Rahm to scare the bejeezus out of errant Democrats. As for the Republicans? He should tell them to fuck off and remind them - again! - that he won.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    So what's he waiting for? Wouldn't an Executive order take care of this in one day?
    Is ever going to carry out ANY of his campaign --and subsequent-- promises?
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Lizawithazee Lizawithazee
    10/10/09

    @Novaload: No. It's a federal law. He doesn't make laws, Congress does.
     Reply
    Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    10/10/09

    @Lizawithazee: I'm sure Congress will be just as cooperative on this front as they've been with health care.

    I'm ecstatic he's doing this, as it's about time and it needed to be done, but why announce this now? Couldn't he wait, I dunno, another month or so? He can barely get Democrats to toe the line on health care - this gives them, especially the ones up for re-election in 2010, another reason to push back on his initiatives.

    Sigh. Who are the next batch of crazies this announcement will bring forth?
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of lrubemp lrubemp
    10/10/09

    @Lizawithazee:
    Yeah, but he still didn't announce he was introducing any legislation. It's the usual Obama trust-me sweet-talk.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment lrubemp was starred lrubemp was unstarred
    Image of Lucky Lucky
    10/11/09

    @Novaload: The law needs to be overturned by Congress, but you are technically right; he could stop DADT dismissals with an executive order as a stop-loss measure until the law is overturned.

    For more information, read this:
    [www.huffingtonpost.com]

    (this professor devotes most of his research to DADT)

    and www.palmcenter.org
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred
    Image of Aatom Aatom
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    How is this different from what he told us during the election exactly?
     Reply
    Lizawithazee promoted this comment Aatom was starred Aatom was unstarred
    Image of Lizawithazee Lizawithazee
    10/10/09

    @Aatom: He's the President now, so presumably he has more power to make it happen. Can't wait for further announcements and some action. I'd almost like to see him make some deals with the military.
     Reply
    Edited by Lizawithazee at 10/10/09 9:30 PM Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    10/10/09

    @Aatom: It doesn't. It's more talky-talk from President McTalkerson.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of 92BuickLeSabre 92BuickLeSabre
    10/10/09

    @Novaload: It's funny cause it's true. Also, sad for same reason.
     Reply
    92BuickLeSabre was starred 92BuickLeSabre was unstarred
    Image of Aatom Aatom
    10/10/09

    @Lizawithazee: Yes, that's what makes it even more frustrating now, because he has the power to end this policy immediately and hasn't, which he promised to do once in office. This headline is misleading, it should read: Breaking: Obama Once Again Pushes Off Action to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
     Reply
    Aatom was starred Aatom was unstarred
    Image of KefkaticFanatic KefkaticFanatic
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    Good. Hopefully in a generation or so this moronic homophobia will be nothing but a memory. Although, I'm sure people have been saying that about racism as well as many other kinds of discrimination too...
     Reply
    Lizawithazee promoted this comment KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred
    Image of taiki24 taiki24
    10/10/09

    In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
    But did he give any sort of timetable?

    I applaud him for working to end this barbaric policy, but I just really want to see some specifics.
     Reply
    mattchew03 promoted this comment taiki24 was starred taiki24 was unstarred
    Image of Matt Cherette Matt Cherette
    10/10/09

    @taiki24: My thoughts exactly. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he doesn't follow through with this or at least give some sort of timetable, I'ma be PISSED.
     Reply
    Matt Cherette was starred Matt Cherette was unstarred
    Image of KefkaticFanatic KefkaticFanatic
    10/10/09

    @taiki24: Because you really need specifics on ending something like this.
     Reply
    Foster Kamer promoted this comment KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred
    Image of Foster Kamer Foster Kamer
    10/10/09

    @KefkaticFanatic: No timetable.
     Reply
    Foster Kamer was starred Foster Kamer was unstarred
    Image of Matt Cherette Matt Cherette
    10/10/09

    @KefkaticFanatic: I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but it's not as simple as it may sound. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is mandated by federal law -- he can't just end it by making a speech saying he will.

    *If you weren't being sarcastic, please disregard my comment and accept my apologies*
     Reply
    Edited by Matt Cherette at 10/10/09 9:14 PM Matt Cherette was starred Matt Cherette was unstarred
    Image of KefkaticFanatic KefkaticFanatic
    10/10/09

    @mattchew03: But it's not like this is the same as closing Guantanamo Bay. We should be able to just throw out the law for discrimination.
     Reply
    KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred
    Image of taiki24 taiki24
    10/10/09

    @KefkaticFanatic: Unfortunately, I don't think it's that simple. He still has to tread a fine political line; if he looks to much like he's going completely over the heads of his Senior Military Officials a lot of people will be upset.
    Of course, this group probably has a lot of overlap with the group that get's angry every time their thoughts stray onto the fact that gay people do in fact exist, but I digress.
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment taiki24 was starred taiki24 was unstarred
    Image of Jim Topoleski Jim Topoleski
    10/10/09

    @KefkaticFanatic: unfortunately and somewhat surprising for those people who dont know, sexual orientation is not considered discrimination by US law.

    The biggest issue is the President cant just repeal a law. Someone from congress has to get a bill through to remove it.
     Reply
    Jim Topoleski was starred Jim Topoleski was unstarred
    Image of Matt Cherette Matt Cherette
    10/10/09

    @KefkaticFanatic: What @Jim Topoleski said.
     Reply
    Matt Cherette was starred Matt Cherette was unstarred
    Image of KefkaticFanatic KefkaticFanatic
    10/10/09

    @mattchew03: Eh, damn. Well, let's just hope there aren't any crazy religious people standing in the way.
     Reply
    KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred
    Image of BlinkyMcChuck BlinkyMcChuck
    09/02/09

    In reply to Our Embassy in Afghanistan Is Guarded by Sexually Confused Frat Boys
    That guy in #2 is totally going to get pinkeye.
     Reply
    BlinkyMcChuck was starred BlinkyMcChuck was unstarred
    Image of CodePink CodePink
    09/02/09

    In reply to Our Embassy in Afghanistan Is Guarded by Sexually Confused Frat Boys
    I miss all the good parties (in Kabul).
     Reply
    CodePink was starred CodePink was unstarred
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