don't ask, don't tell

posts about #dontaskdonttell more →
Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Our Embassy in Afghanistan Is Guarded by Sexually Confused Frat Boys
Katie Holmes and the Cosmic Confidentiality Agreements
Will Our New Army Secretary Let the Gays In?

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

Lizawithazee
10/11/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
This is not doubt preaching to the choir, but eventually Congress needs to act, right? (Executive Order or no). So we should be lobbying our Reps and Senators really hard now that he's made this public statement. Who is the best candidate to lead the charge with legislation? I am not that familiar with which legislators would support it, which would not, and which are swing votes, other than assuming that do some degree it would fall along party lines.

Anyone? I know some of you follow this closely.
Reply

Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred

TulsaVisitor919
10/11/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Not to be adversarial, but he DOES have some power to end "don't ask, don't tell." I'm a lawyer, and my understanding is that he can issue an Executive Order to suspend enforcement of the law by ordering the military to stop making a legal "finding" that a person is gay. He can also suspend enforcement under the national emergency powers (basically the president can do anything he/she sees fit to protect us in "wartime."). Thus, while Congress makes the law, he has a loophole around it (keeping the law unaffected technically, but ordering the military to not "find" anyone gay) or to confront it head on under the emergency powers doctrine. The first method simply walks around the law, the second trumps it for security purposes, but both have the effect of rendering it null and void in practice.

I personally think he should suspend the law, but that's open for discussion. The legal possibilities available to him as Commander-in-Chief are not open to discussion.

Here's a very accurate article that explains his power in readily accessible prose. http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:-YCKHbce8tsJ:www.huffingtonpost.com/aaron-belkin/obama-to-fire-his-first-g_b_199070.html+can+obama+end+don%27t+ask+don%27t+tell+executive+order&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment TulsaVisitor919 was starred TulsaVisitor919 was unstarred

PaisleyPajamas
10/11/09

@TulsaVisitor919: This is good news and an answer to the debate on the thread.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas was starred PaisleyPajamas was unstarred

braak
10/11/09

@TulsaVisitor919: I agree that suspending the law would be a good choice, but is still only a short-term solution. It may be that he fears that Congress's willingness to actually change the law might be weakened if they saw him just suspend it.
Reply

braak was starred braak was unstarred

Jim Topoleski
10/11/09

@TulsaVisitor919: You're completely right (forgot about executive orders) but all this will do is suspend it, not remove the law meaning if they cant get the removal of the law passed in congress, then any president who takes over would be able to overturn the suspension.

Likewise Obama's not been one to flat out use tools like executive orders to get his way like Bush was. I have a feeling while he will push to end it, he will leave an executive order as something of a last resort.
Reply

Jim Topoleski was starred Jim Topoleski was unstarred

CLY
10/11/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
"Obama's taken hits for not being able to fulfill campaign promises"

I wish people will give him his 4 years to fulfill those promises instead of a few months.
Reply

CLY was starred CLY was unstarred

friendlynerd
10/11/09

@CLY: apologists like you make me sick. He has the power to act on one of his promises with the stroke of his pen, and yet he won't. Why?
Reply

friendlynerd was starred friendlynerd was unstarred

apollo89
10/11/09

@friendlynerd: Because he does not have the power at the stroke of a pen. The executive order would be illegal, and if it were to be tested or revoked with the next president before legislation, we're back at square one.

An executive order would only make the politicians lazy about legally repealing the LAW. It is a law, which means it is required by congress to overturn.
Reply

allyzay promoted this comment apollo89 was starred apollo89 was unstarred

CLY
10/11/09

@friendlynerd: Well I am sorry to make you sick, even I don't know how I am an apologists by pointing out that President Obama has 4 years to achieve the things he wants to do. Not a few months, or a year, or 2 or 3, but 4 years.

Sorry if you don't like that.
Reply

CLY was starred CLY was unstarred

Dot
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Anyone see the SecNav on The Daily Show this week? Hot hot hot, and verrry willing to do what we the people ask. (I have some ideas cute SecNav. Come here.)
Reply

Dot was starred Dot was unstarred

spotted-dog
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
whatever he just wants their money. and the little bourgeois vanilla beans will give it to him.

he just talks. in fairness, i didn't listen to the speech (nor will i). i will take everyone's word that it was magnificent. i got tired of his bloated rhetoric last year. at this point i could care less what he has to say. i want to see things done.

he is a liberal democrat with a democratic house and a democratic senate (both with liberal democratic leadership). if not now, then when? he needs to grow a pair and shove his agenda down the throats of america. if the republicans had the white house and congress they would not hesitate to do exactly as they pleased. they would enact every reactionary, corporatist, civil rights shredding law they saw fit.

the dems picked the wrong candidate. too late of course. fucking excellent.
Reply

Dot promoted this comment spotted-dog was starred spotted-dog was unstarred

Dot
10/10/09

@spotted-dog: No kidding, ram it down their throats. Not like the 'publicans can be any more pissed off and annoying than they are right now anyway.
Reply

Edited by Dot at 10/10/09 10:59 PM Dot was starred Dot was unstarred

afterabe
10/10/09

@spotted-dog: I'm not certain I understand or agree with the idea that just because someone else does something, you have the right to do it too. I hated the last 8 years, + I don't want another American to endure what I did simply because there's a Dem in the White House. There is something to be said for civility, even if a good portion of the country seems to have lost all sense of it.
Reply

allyzay promoted this comment afterabe was starred afterabe was unstarred

spotted-dog
10/10/09

@afterabe: i agree with your sentiment but he's being too civil on this issue.
Reply

spotted-dog was starred spotted-dog was unstarred

Lizawithazee
10/11/09

@spotted-dog: I appreciate your fire and agree to a point. But I don't think Obama is that liberal (as his actions demonstrate). And the Dems picked the candidate that could get elected. I doubt any of the others, though they have may fine qualities, were more electable.
Reply

Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred

Baroness
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Magnificent speech. I understand the skepticism, but listen to him. It's historic, I slowly realized as I watched. What other President has ever given such a major speech in heartfelt defense of GLBT people? The practicalities of what can be done on the road ahead might be bumpy- and he was quite honest about that- but I do not doubt his sincerity.

It really is a powerful moment in not just gay history, but American history, to have a President address gay issues so directly, supportively, sometimes movingly, sometimes humorously. Gaga!
Obama blows me away again tonight.
Reply

Baroness was starred Baroness was unstarred

Dot
10/10/09

@Baroness: Me too. I've decided, once again, he's my husband. Michelle will be a wonderful sister wife, don't you think?
Reply

Dot was starred Dot was unstarred

BowlingForDollars
10/11/09

@Dot: @Baroness: with all due respect, I'm assuming neither of you is gay.

I am and I'm sick of being a second class citizen. If I can't have all of the privileges of every other US citizen, then please lower my taxes. I'm sick of paying for other people's kids to attend school, for subsiding health care, for assisting married folks who get tax breaks and some more stuff I can't think of right now.

Talk is cheap and until Obama takes action on the things he mentioned tonight, then I'm not holding my breath.
Reply

Edited by BowlingForDollars at 10/11/09 12:52 AM BowlingForDollars was starred

sweetpiece
10/11/09

@Baroness: I agree wholeheartedly! I found him inspirational! I pray he follows through.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment sweetpiece was starred sweetpiece was unstarred

RedLineRage
10/11/09

@BowlingForDollars: Exactly. I'm pretty disappointed in Obama right now. The Pentagon has issued an opinion that DADT be revoked, and he still hasn't acted. What is he waiting for? I served in the Army for 4 years, and was an Arabic translator in the first Gulf War. I may have reenlisted if I had been able to serve openly and honestly. It's a shame, really.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment RedLineRage was starred RedLineRage was unstarred

PaisleyPajamas
10/11/09

@RedLineRage: Your story is one that has been told over and over--how many enlisted speak freakin' Arabic? And at this stage of the game (8 years now) we think we can be choosing people based on sexual orientation, because it may undermine the camaraderie of the fox hole? They should have done something about the rapists who have caused so many female enlisted to go AWOL rather than face the lack of justice on that front. BASS-ACKWARDS!
Reply

PaisleyPajamas was starred PaisleyPajamas was unstarred

Colonel Mustard
10/11/09

@BowlingForDollars: Agreed. I really do appreciate the gravity of this speech, and I am very glad that the president continues to publicly espouse support for the LGBT community, but...after a while it's all talk, and talk alone only goes so far before it starts seeming disingenuous.
Reply

Colonel Mustard was starred Colonel Mustard was unstarred

Anthony De Rosa
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Nothing new here. It's time for Obama to start working on "Don’t Talk, Just Do" and that goes for a lot more than "Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell."

They don't give Nobel Prizes for promises. Oh, wait...
Reply

Edited by Anthony De Rosa at 10/10/09 10:02 PM Anthony De Rosa was starred Anthony De Rosa was unstarred

JacquesPaysan
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
I don't understand if this is a good thing or not. Does that mean that it's okay to be gay and a Marine, or does it just reaffirm the no gay military thing in more explicit fashion.

Also: if we're going to say to gay recruits, "here's your rifle, Iraq's that way," could we also legalize gay marriage? That way their partners could at least inherit what few possessions they have when they get blown in half by an IED.
Reply

JacquesPaysan was starred JacquesPaysan was unstarred

Meiyou Wenti
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
He should make it happen now and be crystal clear about it. What is he waiting for, his next speech before to Congress? Enough talk and lofty ideals. Play hardball Obama and make this happen. Now.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment Meiyou Wenti was starred Meiyou Wenti was unstarred

OrneryBabe
10/10/09

@Meiyou Wenti: Sadly, Obama's not so good with the hardball thing. He's too busy trying to play nice with everyone in the sandbox.

He should enlist Rahm to scare the bejeezus out of errant Democrats. As for the Republicans? He should tell them to fuck off and remind them - again! - that he won.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred

Novaload
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
So what's he waiting for? Wouldn't an Executive order take care of this in one day?
Is ever going to carry out ANY of his campaign --and subsequent-- promises?
Reply

Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred

Lizawithazee
10/10/09

@Novaload: No. It's a federal law. He doesn't make laws, Congress does.
Reply

Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred

OrneryBabe
10/10/09

@Lizawithazee: I'm sure Congress will be just as cooperative on this front as they've been with health care.

I'm ecstatic he's doing this, as it's about time and it needed to be done, but why announce this now? Couldn't he wait, I dunno, another month or so? He can barely get Democrats to toe the line on health care - this gives them, especially the ones up for re-election in 2010, another reason to push back on his initiatives.

Sigh. Who are the next batch of crazies this announcement will bring forth?
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred

lrubemp
10/10/09

@Lizawithazee:
Yeah, but he still didn't announce he was introducing any legislation. It's the usual Obama trust-me sweet-talk.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment lrubemp was starred lrubemp was unstarred

Lucky
10/11/09

@Novaload: The law needs to be overturned by Congress, but you are technically right; he could stop DADT dismissals with an executive order as a stop-loss measure until the law is overturned.

For more information, read this:
[www.huffingtonpost.com]

(this professor devotes most of his research to DADT)

and www.palmcenter.org
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred

Aatom
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
How is this different from what he told us during the election exactly?
Reply

Lizawithazee promoted this comment Aatom was starred Aatom was unstarred

Lizawithazee
10/10/09

@Aatom: He's the President now, so presumably he has more power to make it happen. Can't wait for further announcements and some action. I'd almost like to see him make some deals with the military.
Reply

Edited by Lizawithazee at 10/10/09 9:30 PM Lizawithazee was starred Lizawithazee was unstarred

Novaload
10/10/09

@Aatom: It doesn't. It's more talky-talk from President McTalkerson.
Reply

Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred

92BuickLeSabre
10/10/09

@Novaload: It's funny cause it's true. Also, sad for same reason.
Reply

92BuickLeSabre was starred 92BuickLeSabre was unstarred

Aatom
10/10/09

@Lizawithazee: Yes, that's what makes it even more frustrating now, because he has the power to end this policy immediately and hasn't, which he promised to do once in office. This headline is misleading, it should read: Breaking: Obama Once Again Pushes Off Action to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Reply

Aatom was starred Aatom was unstarred

KefkaticFanatic
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
Good. Hopefully in a generation or so this moronic homophobia will be nothing but a memory. Although, I'm sure people have been saying that about racism as well as many other kinds of discrimination too...
Reply

Lizawithazee promoted this comment KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred

taiki24
10/10/09

In reply to Breaking: Obama Pledges to End Military's Don't Ask Don't Tell Policy
But did he give any sort of timetable?

I applaud him for working to end this barbaric policy, but I just really want to see some specifics.
Reply

mattchew03 promoted this comment taiki24 was starred taiki24 was unstarred

mattchew03
10/10/09

@taiki24: My thoughts exactly. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, but if he doesn't follow through with this or at least give some sort of timetable, I'ma be PISSED.
Reply

mattchew03 was starred mattchew03 was unstarred

KefkaticFanatic
10/10/09

@taiki24: Because you really need specifics on ending something like this.
Reply

Foster Kamer promoted this comment KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred

Foster Kamer
10/10/09

@KefkaticFanatic: No timetable.
Reply

Foster Kamer was starred Foster Kamer was unstarred

mattchew03
10/10/09

@KefkaticFanatic: I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not, but it's not as simple as it may sound. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" is mandated by federal law -- he can't just end it by making a speech saying he will.

*If you weren't being sarcastic, please disregard my comment and accept my apologies*
Reply

Edited by mattchew03 at 10/10/09 9:14 PM mattchew03 was starred mattchew03 was unstarred

KefkaticFanatic
10/10/09

@mattchew03: But it's not like this is the same as closing Guantanamo Bay. We should be able to just throw out the law for discrimination.
Reply

KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred

taiki24
10/10/09

@KefkaticFanatic: Unfortunately, I don't think it's that simple. He still has to tread a fine political line; if he looks to much like he's going completely over the heads of his Senior Military Officials a lot of people will be upset.
Of course, this group probably has a lot of overlap with the group that get's angry every time their thoughts stray onto the fact that gay people do in fact exist, but I digress.
Reply

PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment taiki24 was starred taiki24 was unstarred

Jim Topoleski
10/10/09

@KefkaticFanatic: unfortunately and somewhat surprising for those people who dont know, sexual orientation is not considered discrimination by US law.

The biggest issue is the President cant just repeal a law. Someone from congress has to get a bill through to remove it.
Reply

Jim Topoleski was starred Jim Topoleski was unstarred

mattchew03
10/10/09

@KefkaticFanatic: What @Jim Topoleski said.
Reply

mattchew03 was starred mattchew03 was unstarred

KefkaticFanatic
10/10/09

@mattchew03: Eh, damn. Well, let's just hope there aren't any crazy religious people standing in the way.
Reply

KefkaticFanatic was starred KefkaticFanatic was unstarred

BlinkyMcChuck
09/02/09

In reply to Our Embassy in Afghanistan Is Guarded by Sexually Confused Frat Boys
That guy in #2 is totally going to get pinkeye.
Reply

BlinkyMcChuck was starred BlinkyMcChuck was unstarred

CodePink
09/02/09

In reply to Our Embassy in Afghanistan Is Guarded by Sexually Confused Frat Boys
I miss all the good parties (in Kabul).
Reply

CodePink was starred CodePink was unstarred

Earlier threads | All threads | Show hidden threads | Show featured threads only | Start a new discussion