Gawker 
Enter your username and password.
New York, 3:05 PM
Sat Nov 28
12 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip Your Editors:
tips@gawker.com
Tipline: 646-214-8138
Editor-in-Chief:
Gabriel Snyder | Email
West Coast Editor:
Richard Rushfield | Email
Contributing Editors:
Valleywag:
Ryan Tate | Email
Media:
Hamilton Nolan | Email
Politics:
Alex Pareene | Email
Investigations:
John Cook | Email
Entertainment:
Brian Moylan | Email
Nights:
Adrian Chen | Email
Azaria Jagger | Email
Ravi Somaiya | Email
Weekends:
Foster Kamer | Email
Video Editor:
Richard Blakeley | Email
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
08/15/09
Another excellent post, Pareene. The moron squad is out in full force.
08/14/09
08/14/09
On the other hand, the quickness with which we jump to make these associations speaks to the underlying relationships between ignorance, fear, hatred, and violence. It's also a desperate attempt to escape what human nature is so reticent to leg go. Afterall, genocide didn't begin with the Nazis, and it didn't end with the fall of the Third Reich, either, even if it never reached the same intesity as those years.
08/14/09
Anyway, most people who can appreciate the historical, cultural, and societal subtleties of how the Nazis came to power is unlikely to bandy it about in REASONED debate with an ignorant American about how ignorance leads to violence. It will more likely be used as a verbal weapon.
Pareene seems to appreciate the difference; so, cheers.
08/14/09
08/14/09
There are a lot of voices that get drowned out in the healthcare debate on both sides when the spotlight is put on orgiastic controversy, rather that substantive conflict (e.g. How do we pay for health care?) which leads to informed decisions and resolution.
To speak to your point about motives, I just watched David Frum, of all people (Bush's former speech writer), interviewed a few minutes ago on PBS's "Bill Moyer's Journal". He made a very convincing argument as to why torpedoing healthcare reform was ultimately suicide for conservatives, and why (although he disagrees with elements of the president's plan) conservatives have a vested interest in working with him in good faith.
He canvased all the reasons why he believes this, but the first one went somthing like this: if healthcare costs continue to rise, you can forget about every passing a tax cut again. He also believes that Republicans took a big hit in the elections because, although wages may have risen, increased earnings were eaten up by the rising cost of benefits (i.e. When the money's rolling in, voters are less sympathetic to Democrats or higher taxes). His motives aside, he offered a lot of room to negotiate with Obama on substantive healthcare refrom.
To bring it back to the discussion of Nazis, Moyers asked Frum about the vitriolic language coming from rightwing commentaters. Again, Frum strongly condemned those kinds of tactics AND fully explained why they're so bad: 1) the good faith social contract between leaders and the public, and 2) regarding Obama being called a Nazi -- if we really believed he was a Nazi or were going to euthenize the elderly we'd have an obligation to consider the use of force to remove him from power, and that's exaclty why we don't say it when it's not true.Here's a link to the interview, it's worth wathcing: [www.pbs.org]
08/15/09
08/15/09
08/15/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
I'm guessing your borrowing it from that great episode of the Simpsons with the bear patrol. Good for you. I'd look it up before the next time you use it.
Also, they are talking about Brownshits, not Nazis. You're blowing up the argument to the ridiculous so that you can argue against it, but no is saying what you claim they are saying.
08/14/09
Shh... that's "reductio homo strawmensis argumentum ad absurdum." Don't give away all the secrets!
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
In addition to the ironic Brownshirt tactics used by dissenters, the more widespread offense of the republican party "leaders" is that they seem to not be offering an alternative to the public option - why not jump on Obama's health care initiative, but with a market-based solution more in line with republican ideals? Why not be a part of the solution instead of the problem by standing FOR something rather than against something?
I would argue that the republican party is actually no longer republican - instead of promoting a small government fiscal policy, they're more interested in cronyism, racism, and fear-mongering. They need to just go ahead and brand themselves as the fascist party that they are.
08/14/09
Call it what you will, but like negative political ads, it seems to be working. This first round of health care reform appears to be dead.
08/14/09
It's Godwin's Law, and ever was and will be. Jeez.
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
We need to stop these Brownshirting tactics:
[thedanashow.files.wordpress.com]
08/14/09
Lets talking about something more important: Dana Loesch, the hottest hot hotty that ever hotted a hot, ever. I would gladly vote Republican for her love and attention.
08/14/09
Geez, it reminds me of something I was told eons ago, about bringing up the specter of "race" in an argument. I was told once you "play the race card" that's it, kaputo, no one is listening anymore. It's like a free, "I just won the argument, because you said the 'R' word, and who takes that seriously. dunzo." So, yeah, once you say "Race" you're instantly Malcom X having a fireside chat with Sistah Soulja stoking the flames of Nat Turners revolt, and shouting, "Give is us Free!" from the courtroom. When maybe you're just talking about how hard it is to get a cab in the city.
Also, I just can't take brownshirts seriously. In my geek-head those are the hard to beat brown-dudes in Ninja Gaiden or the name of a revolutionary movement (Browncoats) championed by Mal Reynolds in Firefly. I’d like to rename the epic geniuses at the town halls, because they need their own category for the crazy-ram-a-lama make believe nut-puffs they like to swirl in until stupid is literally seeping from the hair follicles.
08/14/09
I mean, the Hitler stuff got played out during the Bush years, but race is clearly an issue that is ok to be discussed again, because shit is real out there, especially when people are fighting for jobs.
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09
Funny little fact for all the republicans who are right now ejaculating to the thought of "Brownshirt tactics work! Just look at Adolf.": The NSDAP was waning in in the early thirties and couldn't translate their votes into government power because they had no coalition partners at all. Old Adolf was appointed by dickwad politicians going down for being incompetant in a procedure that has no equivalence in any modern democracy.
In this case the dickwads and the violent assholes are united in the same party of fail, so no backdoor power grab.
Sorry.
08/14/09
08/14/09
08/14/09