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New York, 7:30 PM
Tue Dec 1
50 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Peter Feld Peter Feld
    11/24/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Here is the problem with this post, and the whole line of thinking. Yes, "fundamentals of the economy" "cost" McCain the election, in the sense that political journalists always seek a single event (like Dukakis in the tank) that can explain a complex process. Many other things happened that week: McCain "declared a crisis" and suspended his campaign. He tried to duck the debate. He ducked Letterman and was exposed and skewered. They all added up to one thing: he had no clue how to cope with a fresh crisis, exactly the sort of thing a president has to do. And yes, he was unable to express real empathy or show he understood the dimensions of the crisis.

    But! His comment wasn't "thoughtless." It was intended to be confidence-boosting. America is tough, we'll get through this, our fundamental assets - hard-working Americans, know-how, etc. - are still strong. He allowed it to be played as a gaffe, that was his mistake (because he really didn't "get it"). And yes, Obama hung it around his neck like a flaming tire. But a more skillful politician wouldn't have reacted with the above-referenced weeklong meltdown (also including a hastily staged White House meeting including Obama, arranged to save face for McCain, where he had nothing to say).

    And to tell the truth, Obama has some of the same problem, connecting with average people and showing empathy for their distress, like Bill Clinton did, but that was not a factor during the campaign because contrasted with McCain, Obama looked like the one you'd want to have in charge: cool, calm and collected. But that doesn't make it a major gaffe when, for confidence-building reasons, he makes the case that our underlying economy is strong - even though he did demagogue the hapless McCain over a similarly aimed comment.

    The biggest factor in the economy right now is consumer confidence, which depends on people expecting the future to be better than the past (as has been on the rise) so they will spend over the holidays, and that is what Obama is hoping to encourage. Sheesh, when he talked about the gravity of the crisis after he was elected, everyone said he was scaring everyone and spooking the stock market.
     Reply
    Peter Feld was starred Peter Feld was unstarred
    Image of SometimesADusek SometimesADusek
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Ya'll; I cannot believe that video shot in my hometown of Bumblefart, CO (Grand Junction a.k.a. Sand Dumption a.k.a. Bland Malfunction a.k.a. "The Geej" ) is on Gawker. Do you know how exciting this is?

    As for the jobs thing. There are ways out of this mess but the Administration is NOT listening to the right people and, yes, those are the strains of the same old song that we're starting to hear.

    I work with an organization that is involved with the international building sector (architects, builders, contractors, carpenters etc.). We have a plan that's been in front of the Administration that will create 4.5 Million Jobs in one year, reduce CO2 emissions by 101 MMT, reduce energy consumption by 907TBtu, as well as save consumers $103 billion in mortgage payments and energy costs annually.
    I feel like Professor Harold Hill saying it but this plan of ours really can work. Basic premise: If you renovate your home to be energy efficient, you get a crazy low (like 2%) mortgage rate (which has been bought down by stimulus $$). All the laid-off electricians, plumbers, earth movers, and every other construction trade (the sector suffering the highest job loss b.t.w.) go back to work renovating the 93% of our existing building stock that DESPERATELY NEEDS to be renovated for efficiency and the homeowner saves like $500 every month. We call it the "One Year 4.5 Million Jobs Investment Plan" (no kidding). Instead of throwing 800 Billion at highways, we're asking the Govt. to spend a mere 30 Billion buying down mortgage rates so We The People can afford to fix up our drafty, dumpy, coal guzzling houses.

    Maybe we need to get out in the streets and demand the stuff we want (?)
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment SometimesADusek was starred SometimesADusek was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong

    This could be Obama's "Mission Accomplished" moment -- pretty risky given the employment numbers
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    11/23/09

    @momof3wildkids: Uh, that's a pretty huge reach.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    11/24/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: Not if unemployment stays at these levels for a couple years.

    #tips
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of HeathenKiller HeathenKiller
    11/24/09

    @momof3wildkids: If he hangs a giant banner that reads "WE FIXED THE ECONOMY" and unemployment stays at these levels for a couple years THEN its his "Mission Accomplished". Until then he just said that at the core America is strong and will get through this.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids promoted this comment HeathenKiller was starred HeathenKiller was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    11/24/09

    @HeathenKiller: You are, of course, assuming that the core of America is strong. There are a fair number who don't feel that way. [www.cnbc.com]

    #tips
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of HeathenKiller HeathenKiller
    11/24/09

    @momof3wildkids: I'm not assuming that. I'm simply stating what he is assuming. I never said I agreed with him (whether I do or not is for a different post) I'm just saying I disagree with you.

    What I mean is there is a LARGE difference between hanging a banner off a ship that says "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" in regards to Iraq, and Obama saying "The core of America is strong" in regards to the economy.

    Mission accomplished is a statement that "We are done. We have accomplished what we set out to do." The equivalent, I believe, is if Obama hung a huge banner that says "ECONOMY FIXED" behind him during a press conference. He didn't do that.
     Reply
    HeathenKiller was starred HeathenKiller was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    11/24/09

    @HeathenKiller: Thanks, you've left very little for me to say. The real analogy to Obama's statement would have been Bush's saying, "We will win this fight, because our service men and women are dedicated, strong, and brave," with a banner behind him that said, "Welcome Home, U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln". And if he had said that, I doubt he'd have caught any flak at all.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of The Real JR The Real JR
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Huge stretch, baby.
     Reply
    The Real JR was starred The Real JR was unstarred
    Image of flossy flossy
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    GAH. The Presidential campaign. Is. Over.

    This nitpicky, zomg did he just make a gaffe?! style reporting was grating even then. Now it's doubly obnoxious. Can you really not recognize the contextual differences between a) a candidate blithely shrugging off what seemed, at the time, like impending economic armageddon and b) the President reminding a country weary from a year of financial stress that no, this isn't going to last forever--at the end of the day we still have the most powerful economy in the world bar none and the jobs will come back?

    McCain said the worst thing possible at a traumatic moment in history. Obama is trying to coax everyone back to sanity in its aftermath. Sort of big distinction?
     Reply
    flossy was starred flossy was unstarred
    Image of unclevanya unclevanya
    11/23/09

    @flossy: Indeed. Saying it during a campaign is suicide. But if you land the job, you have to be part cheerleader and part pragmatist. Otherwise people will be jumping out of windows and standing in traffic in droves again. Or rather, doing it before the have to.
     Reply
    Edited by unclevanya at 11/23/09 7:42 PM unclevanya was starred unclevanya was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    11/23/09

    @flossy: Thank you for saying my thoughts for me very eloquently. Also, McCain couldn't remember how many houses he owned as foreclosures were snowballing. He said something like "I'm sorry people's real estate investments didn't work out for them." McCain's economic advisor, Phil Gramm, was the dick who deregulated the banks (and Enron) to begin with. Gramm was also the dick who said "Americans are whiners who are in a mental recession." His wife got $2 million bucks from Enron, he now works for UBS. You don't hear them whining about the economy, now do you? Time magazine rated Phil Gramm in the top 25 people who ruined the economy, I'd put him at a tie for number one with Ronald Reagan.
     Reply
    marin79 promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    11/23/09

    @flossy:

    We're not in the aftermath. I think the statements are similar. But I agreed with McCain then, and I agree with Obama now.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of CumaeanSibyl CumaeanSibyl
    11/23/09

    @flossy: Even John says it: "Obama is speaking at the beginning of an anemic recovery, when it makes sense for the president to adopt a boosterish stance. "

    Yes, the unemployment situation is still horrible, but things are less worrisome in general; at the time of McCain's comment, I wasn't entirely convinced that the fundamentals were strong enough to resist what was coming.
     Reply
    CumaeanSibyl was starred CumaeanSibyl was unstarred
    Image of SpeakerphoneON SpeakerphoneON
    11/23/09

    Rhetoric and hyperbole from the Oval Office and in the comments here doesn't alter reality. McCain and Obama both came off sounding like Officer Barbrady. McCain's paid for his gaffe. To suggest that Obama is merely trying to soothe the nation is disingenuous. On the contrary he's advancing a political agenda, namely the desire to get health care reform passed. With the concern about costs for such reform front and center, it's an obvious point for Obama to take: we're on solid ground, we can afford and need to take this step. I'm not going to start a debate about health care reform but I do agree with the author of this post that the song remains the same. Both men were telling people what they wanted to hear.
     Reply
    marin79 promoted this comment SpeakerphoneON was starred SpeakerphoneON was unstarred
    Image of Unsolicited Advice Unsolicited Advice
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Like I thought when McCain said it - he's right. The job of the President is to be our chief advocate, to point America forward along its path. Our fundamentals are our people, and our people are strong. But we aren't going to come out of this without hardship, and that's the message that Obama really needs to send. Once the money presses turn off and we properly account for our losses, we're in for a struggle - not an insurmountable one, but certainly a difficult one.
     Reply
    Unsolicited Advice was starred Unsolicited Advice was unstarred
    Image of i'm a bottle i'm a bottle
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    I'd like to see how McCain would have handled the economic crisis. We would have probably invaded Iran.
     Reply
    Edited by i'm a bottle at 11/23/09 7:04 PM i'm a bottle was starred i'm a bottle was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    11/23/09

    @i'm a bottle: His protege Palin is still insanely going on about cutting taxes. Two months after the economic collapse she was still babbling about cutting taxes on the wealthy. Then someone pointed out to her than nobody really gives a fuck about the weary wealthy anymore, so she changed it to cutting taxes on "small business owners." Thanks, Sarah, I used to be a small business owner until Republicans ruined the economy and wiped me out. What kind of complete IDIOT would think you cut taxes after you've run up a massive deficit? Probably the same sort of IDIOT who thought that you pay for two wars by cutting taxes on the wealthy. It was obvious to me before the economy collapsed that there was going to be a tax increase on the way due to all of Bush's ridiculous financial moves. Anyone remember Greenspan warning that if we didn't cut taxes on the wealthy we risked paying off the deficit too soon? Ha, it's funny, because it's so UNtrue.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of i'm a bottle i'm a bottle
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Well, the right will probably pick Obama apart for saying it, but let's also keep in mind that McCain said the economy's healthy a week before the stock market began its freefall. Then he suddenly decides that he should give a fuck, after which he "suspends" his campaign to participate in bailout talks. It looked supremely manic. This chain of events was more damning than any single quote.
     Reply
    i'm a bottle was starred i'm a bottle was unstarred
    Image of i'm a bottle i'm a bottle
    11/23/09

    @i'm a bottle: My comment won't post to the page!
     Reply
    i'm a bottle was starred i'm a bottle was unstarred
    Image of eatsshootsleaves eatsshootsleaves
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    "The fundamentals [of the economy] are sound in the sense that the American workers are sound, we have a good capital stock, we have good technology." -- an actual quote from the White House, March, 2009 (Christina Romer, specifically). This quote, which is far more similar to McCain's then the one you mentioned, had such a huge political impact that you didn't even mention it in your post.

    Anyway. No Republican is going to hit him over the head for saying "There are core strengths to the American economy that will put us in good stead over the long term," because you know what core strength he's mainly talking about? Capitalism. Yeah.

    Usually you're my favorite writer here, John, but this post seems really off base.
     Reply
    eatsshootsleaves was starred eatsshootsleaves was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    Nice, Gawker, how you never criticize Obama and always kiss his ass and never point out when he is wrong -- oh, wait.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of Iamdoingit Iamdoingit
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    John, I usually like your posts but this one is a bit dramatic.1) Obama is basically saying what president needs to say which is that our educational system, our work force, and our human capital make the US economically strong in the long-term. Basically it is a "we rock" pep rally more than anything. The economy's improvement is a self-reenforcing thing. You can't get better if you hear the president say "things are crappy and they ain't getting better."2) McCain really messed up at that point because he was not trying to pep people up as that was not his job at the time. His job was to convince people that he understood things were ugly and he had solutions. Arguably Obama should be doing the same thing now, but part of implimenting his plan is encouraging the country, making his statement part of the solution, even if only in a small way.Things are ugly, we can all agree, but your argument is flawed because you are ascribing the wrong job descriptions.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment Edited by Iamdoingit at 11/23/09 6:44 PM Iamdoingit was starred Iamdoingit was unstarred
    Image of AzureTexan AzureTexan
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    "President Barack Obama said Monday the nation's economy is in good shape for the long term thanks to 'core strengths' ..."

    Hey, the man is just buffing up the fitness sector by giving a subliminal pitch for the Ab Roller Plus.
     Reply
    AzureTexan was starred AzureTexan was unstarred
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    11/23/09

    In reply to Obama: Fundamentals of the Economy Are Still Strong
    But it kind of is. The market rebound has been sort of shockingly amazing. I have made a fuck ton just investing in a boring index fund this year. Best use of that tax return ever.
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of dinalohan dinalohan
    11/23/09

    @Trulymadlyme: I know. But let's not let facts get in the way of opinion.
     Reply
    dinalohan was starred dinalohan was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    11/23/09

    @Trulymadlyme: I agree. When McCain made that statement, there was concern the worldwide financial markets might collapse. Lehman Brothers had just filed the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history. Truly fundamental aspects of our economy were on the verge of being wiped-out. That scared me in ways that these unemployment figures don't. Doesn't mean the economy is fixed or that I'm feeling oh-so confident about my economic future, but circumstances don't seem quite as apocalyptic as they did a year ago.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of Adah Adah
    11/23/09

    @Trulymadlyme: That's cool if you have a job. The point of the article is that a whole lot of people are unable to take any part in this recovery, because they can't find work. These kinds of statements can be made to seem very indifferent to those hurting in the recession. Who cares that you can't find work? At least my 401K has bounced back. Ugh.
     Reply
    eatsshootsleaves promoted this comment Adah was starred Adah was unstarred
    Image of HelenofPeel HelenofPeel
    11/23/09

    @Trulymadlyme: How many jobs did you create?
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme promoted this comment HelenofPeel was starred HelenofPeel was unstarred
    Image of Trulymadlyme Trulymadlyme
    11/23/09

    @HelenofPeel: Well I did cash out a healthy chunk to buy a car and spend on various random things. I do "stimulate" the economy by shopping in my neighborhood and spending money in my own community. I'd like to think I've at least kept a few bar tenders from being laid off.
     Reply
    Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred
    Image of RollsRoyceRevenge RollsRoyceRevenge
    11/17/09

    In reply to Rupert Murdoch: David Paterson Is a Hapless Blind Illiterate
    Rupe's probably just confused because he doesn't understand why the governor hasn't washed off the blackface yet. #rupertmurdoch
     Reply
    RollsRoyceRevenge was starred RollsRoyceRevenge was unstarred
    Image of Penscribe Penscribe
    11/17/09

    In reply to Rupert Murdoch: David Paterson Is a Hapless Blind Illiterate
    You call the governor Davis Paterson in his second reference, eh. That is throwing me off. Back to reading.... #rupertmurdoch
     Reply
    Penscribe was starred Penscribe was unstarred
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