I remember the first time when the gay pride march was organized to take place in Jerusalem, in 2000. Representatives of the three major religions there suddenly had a common cause. Jewish, Christian, and Muslim clerics each expressed their unhappiness using characteristic rhetoric. The rabbis called it "disgraceful." The Christian priests spoke of "sins" and "sodomites." At the imams said the "streets would run with their blood."
@iplaudius: There is clearly a vast ocean of difference between saying that a gay parade is "disgraceful" and saying that the "streets would run with their blood."
@uncivily obedient: That’s why it was funny. I don’t remember where the parade was actually held that year, but I remember that one of the gay marchers or bystanders got stabbed by an assailant turned out to be an Arab Muslim. Then, at Jerusalem Pride in 2005, three marchers were stabbed by an "Ultra" Orthodox Jew. Stabby religious people!
@iplaudius: Missing word: " ... assailant that turned out to be ... ." The point is, there were people on both sides who were motivated by religious or cultural beliefs to do violence against gay people.
@iplaudius: I realized you understood the difference. I just felt the need to write that comment.
Anyway, re the stabby religious people, it just goes to show how some religious people have gotten everything backwards. Homosexuality which is defined the same way as eating seafood in the Bible is worse then attempted murder! Why aren't the crazy ones (an extreme minority)running into Red Lobster and stabbing people?
@uncivily obedient: Well, in the Jewish tradition, which I think informs the Muslim and Christian traditions, sexual sins are treated differently. For example, if someone told a Jew to eat shellfish or be killed, he is permitted to eat the shellfish to preserve his own life. This is not the case with sexual sins, idolatry, or denial of God. If you are told to commit incest or be killed, bow before an idol or be killed, deny God or be killed, for example, you are supposed to choose death.
Also, the word used in the Torah or "Old Testament" to describe homosexual acts, translated as "abomination," is unique: no other sin is described using that word. The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah also informs the perception of homosexual acts qua sins.
If a person reads the catalog of sins in the Old Testament without context, it’s tempting to compare any sin with any other: shellfish and homosexual acts, for example. Indeed, this is a popular argumentative move with progressive Christians such as American Episcopalians who want to argue in favor of gay marriage and the ordination of openly gay priests.
But, while I applaud socially progressive action, it is disingenuous to read any ancient text that way, let alone religious texts that have functioned in many different contexts and traditions. In the Jewish tradition, those texts were never meant to be self-standing: there was always an oral tradition given from God, on par with the written texts and necessary for understanding them. For example, according to the oral tradition (actually written down in parts beginning thousands of years ago), the Noachide moral code (covenant of Noah) was meant to apply to Jews and non-Jews alike, and traditionally includes the strictures of sexual sins.
I find this depressing. I think I should focus less on offering accurate information and more on making funny zingers.
@HiredGoons: Friend of mine is part of the organization. And yes, she does have a hard time. It's not so much about her being gay. Tel Aviv has an amazing gay scene. But to organize the march in Jerusalem, has a lot of religious groups in uproar. You should have seen the protests, Orthodox Jews, Christians, and Muslims can stand side by side in agreement, against Gay Pride. She joked to me; I've accomplished what many couldn't.
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Anyway, re the stabby religious people, it just goes to show how some religious people have gotten everything backwards. Homosexuality which is defined the same way as eating seafood in the Bible is worse then attempted murder! Why aren't the crazy ones (an extreme minority)running into Red Lobster and stabbing people?
06/25/09
Also, the word used in the Torah or "Old Testament" to describe homosexual acts, translated as "abomination," is unique: no other sin is described using that word. The fate of Sodom and Gomorrah also informs the perception of homosexual acts qua sins.
If a person reads the catalog of sins in the Old Testament without context, it’s tempting to compare any sin with any other: shellfish and homosexual acts, for example. Indeed, this is a popular argumentative move with progressive Christians such as American Episcopalians who want to argue in favor of gay marriage and the ordination of openly gay priests.
But, while I applaud socially progressive action, it is disingenuous to read any ancient text that way, let alone religious texts that have functioned in many different contexts and traditions. In the Jewish tradition, those texts were never meant to be self-standing: there was always an oral tradition given from God, on par with the written texts and necessary for understanding them. For example, according to the oral tradition (actually written down in parts beginning thousands of years ago), the Noachide moral code (covenant of Noah) was meant to apply to Jews and non-Jews alike, and traditionally includes the strictures of sexual sins.
I find this depressing. I think I should focus less on offering accurate information and more on making funny zingers.
06/25/09
06/25/09
06/25/09
06/25/09
06/25/09