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Is There a PC Way to Talk About PC? |
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06/24/09
Also, the closet is not only a personal choice, it's a political choice and deserves to be criticized as such.
06/23/09
My advice: Stay classy Lawson. The boy is just 18, and he's already looking to be in a world of trubba and mockery about what's about to go down, regardless of sexuality.
As tempting a target as he seems, I think he's still just a kid. You will have plenty of material, I believe. No doubt he will be embarrased enough when the season is over.
I'd err on the side of civility, Richard- take the kid at his word, go from there.
06/23/09
Do you really want to go down this path? You're not saying he's gay like you would say Adam Freaking Lambert is gay.
No, it's not that. You're hinting that this young man actually hates himself just because he's interested in fashion.
If he says he's not gay, why not just believe it? Because implying he has some kind of twisted personality that suppresses his own sexuality just because he goes to fucking fashion shows IS out of line.
It's one thing to say he's gay; it's quite another to say he's closeted. You know the currency the phrase self-loathing has in the Gay Community, and it's precisely that phrase that seems to describe your pithy characterization of PC.
06/23/09
But Jesus Christ, there is just no winning with you! I did not imply in any way that he was self-loathing or hates himself. That's ridiculous. You're kinda just tilting at windmills at this point.
06/23/09
Tilting at the what?
I realize PC is a reality "talent"; he is, essentially, every spoiled child we knew growing up, crystallized; and that he seems just a little too conspicuously adamant that he's straight.
But somewhere between 1999 and today, June 23 2009, calling someone gay (even as speculation) transformed from a character assassination predicated on homosexuality's unseemliness into a character assassination predicated on one's dishonesty about his or her sexuality and the accompanying concealment, secrecy and selfishness.
But a character assassination nonetheless.
(And, to be frank, he's old enough to know if he likes the cock or not.)
06/23/09
The two ways I think PC might be gay:
PC is gay but knows it, but wants to pretend he isn't. Which I've done.
PC is gay but doesn't really know it, but suspects something's up, so he tries extra hard to prove he likes girls. I haven't done that, but know many a man who did.
Either way, I don't see pointing that out as character assassination nor does it, in my mind, have anything to do with 'dishonesty' or 'selfishness' in any gross cultural way. It's just people being people, and I find that Funny.
I find it funny that Camille is a crazy over-achiever! I find it funny that Sebastian is a little Lothario who breaks ladies' hearts! I find it funny that I see so much of myself and other people I've known when I was that age in someone as ridiculous as PC!
The point of the post was simply to mull over some hesitancy to discuss the topic, as these are Hyper Political times, and certain folks (ahem) get mighty upset when the topic is broached in any less than glowingly positive or earnestly negative manner. Can there be a middle ground here? That's what I was asking.
I suppose I'm not surprised by your reaction, though I am a bit disappointed. That you read this is "character assassination" provokes me to ask another question, to you directly:
How would you discuss this funny detail of the show? Would you mention it all?
06/23/09
Isn't the whole sham, as you say, that he benefits from the air gayculturalism without ever quite diving into it?
No, absolutely not. You misunderstand me completely. I relate to the kid, I feel bad for the kid in a "aww, he'll grow up and figure it all (or some of it) out someday." I in no way want to condemn him for being Maybe Gay. But I would like to talk about it, because it's interesting and relatable and sad and funny. That's alls I was saying. I'm not going to make some socio-cultural-political statement out of a character on NYC Prep. Just observations. About people. Who signed up for a reality show.
06/23/09
I wrote this post because I had questions, genuine questions, about whether this conversation is appropriate or even worth having.
Your comments in particular on the DLB post made me really upset, and made me think. I attempted to address them in some small way here.
That said, I do not feel that I'm carrying out a character assassination on this kid by discussing the potential question mark of his sexuality. Though I'm going to continue to try my hardest not to enter any mercenary territory, I trust that if I do start to wander off in that direction, you'll ding me for it up. (If you're reading the dumb recaps, that is.)
06/23/09
06/23/09
I remember the Jenny Jones days when just the mere mention of proposed homosexuality could be fatal (dark days, very dark days) but in this era of visual and digital documentation, I think speculation on just about everything becomes fair game once you've decided to open that door to your life via the public at large, especially if your dating habits are discussed for all to see. Honestly, I seriously doubt this is the first time the gay question has been bandied about with regards to PC. I'm sure he's aware, and perhaps that's what he's banking on.
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06/23/09
But the boy put himself on television in hopes of getting all kinds of attention, including this sort of speculation (and wondering if someone is gay isn't saying it's a bad thing if he/she is).
For what it's worth, if he doesn't come screaming out of the closet within the next couple of months, I'm gonna lose a bet.
06/23/09
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Love the name, btw.
06/23/09
By all outward indicators-the clothes, the voice, the bevy of girl friends, the overcompensatingly loud discussions of so badly wanting a girlfriend-the young fellow (who was an 18-year-old high school senior when the series was filmed) is a closeted homosexual.
You don't know that he's a closeted homosexual based on those characteristics unless you are not only accepting, but participating in the establishment of a lengthy set of stereotypical social assertions. Those criteria are not How You Identify The Gays. They're how you create a list of "gay traits" to be mocked and marginalized.
This kind of blithe perpetuation of "gay traits" is why a suburban teenager can say "that's gay" and it has cultural currency. It isn't gay because it has sex with boys, it's gay because it wears certain clothes or talks a certain way.
06/23/09
It does sort of assume a vacuum though, doesn't it? I mean, there IS recognizable gay culture, and there ARE gay traits. Not for everyone, but certainly for some.
Sure there are gay lumberjacks, but there are also many, many gay theater queens and skinny cigarette-smoking fashionistos. See: Hell's Kitchen on a Sunday night.
I think you're right that the indicators shouldn't be treated as hard, fast, and always accurate. But pretending they don't exist isn't doing much good, in the way of honesty anyway, either.
06/23/09
Richard, I think you're right that stereotypes (of any type) exist because they are largely true. The point, I think, is not to act negatively upon them. I also think the point is that all of us have to have a sense of humor equally about ourselves and others. I haven't seen the show, but I think he's clearly fair game, having proffered himself.
06/23/09
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06/23/09
right, you're his beard, now stfu, and do beard things.
06/23/09