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Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat

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futuremrsrickankiel
11/09/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Oh, nuts. Am I too late to call this a PIE OF SALVATION? Because it is. #jonathansafranfoer
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carbonadam
11/08/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Any vegetarian who thinks animal life is more sacred than plant life is sorely mistaken. All life is sacred and none from the lowly ameba, to humans, to trees, vegetables, nuts, goats, dogs, cows, whales, roaches and rats is any more important than the other. This "animals are more sacred" than plants argument is nonsense and is rooted in human hubris that is about as arrogant and single minded as it can get. vegetarians can be annoying and self righteous and at the end of the day they still have to place organic matter into their maws that was once alive, as do we all, in order to say alive. I say let the annoying ones who think they have it all figured out grind up rocks into dust and eat that instead of organic plant and animal life. #jonathansafranfoer
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Lux Alptraum
11/08/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
I hated Foer's NY Times piece (based on his book), and I, for the record, have been a vegetarian for almost two decades (which, god, makes me feel really fucking old).

Anyhoo: I don't eat meat because a) I'm opposed to factory farming, b) if all Americans reduced their meat consumption by even a little bit, it would do wonders for the environment--so if I reduce my meat consumption by 100%, that at least offsets some of the more aggressive meat eaters out there, and c) I just don't really like the taste of meat and don't miss it.

When I do consume dairy and eggs, I do my best to consume products from local, family farms--obviously not something I can guarantee when eating out, but a practice I keep in my home.

What bothered me so much about the Times piece was that Foer seemed so sanctimonious in his argument: while berating those who choose to eat meat, he simultaneously admitted that 1) he thinks a vegetarian lifestyle is culinarily inferior to one including meat (see point c) and 2) that family farms made many of his points about factory farming null (but, you know, they're just too hard to find--apparently the Park Slope Food Co-Op is impossible for a Park Slope resident to access!)--oh, and he also completely ignored the questions of eating dairy and eggs, wearing leather, animal testing, and the many, many other instances of animal cruelty that exist in our culture.

So I guess I'm trying to say: vegetarians, we aren't all bad (and we are making choices that help the environment!). But that Safran Foer dude...he's a prick. #jonathansafranfoer
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Foster Kamer
11/08/09

@Lux Alptraum: Yes, thank you, exactly. You have the maturity to say what my thirteen year-old instincts set aside in favor of mischief. But hopefully someone took this sentiment from the post. The most egregious notion about all of this is that change starts with BoBo Brooklyn writers like Foer, and his readers. Wrong, and ignorant. It starts with changes in federal policy, and it starts with protecting those for whom reducing our intake of factory farmed products will present the most issues to: lower-income families.
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Edited by Foster Kamer at 11/08/09 3:22 PM Foster Kamer was starred Foster Kamer was unstarred

Orgasmic-Chemist
11/08/09

@Foster Kamer: You think that high-profile writers don't help spark the public interest, which can lead to changes in federal policy?

Maybe you think Foer is a dick, but his novel has gotten people talking and its brought the discussion to the news papers and front pages of blogs.

Its cute to think that the federal government will just up and change policies related to big corporations, but it isn't realistic.

I haven't read Foer's book (sounds like you haven't either), but I did read your post and its pretty pathetic. Way to demean an important issue, because you think your hip readers will enjoy bashing on an erudite author. #jonathansafranfoer
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Foster Kamer
11/08/09

@Orgasmic-Chemist: Franklin? Is that you?

Foer's about as high-profile as the guy who wrote Everything is Illuminated can get. As in, the New York Times really! loves! his shit! The rest of reading America still remembers him as the guy who wrote Everything is Illuminated and the 9/11 picture book.

Also, O hai, have you been reading the news lately?

Its cute to think that the federal government will just up and change policies related to big corporations, but it isn't realistic.

Auto industry. Banking industry. Health care industry. What's not realistic is expecting the people reading this book to do anything other than adjust the height of their soapbox. #jonathansafranfoer
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Mike Byhoff
11/08/09

@Orgasmic-Chemist: Do you thing Foer was purposefully being a dick just to get a dialogue going?

The Omnivore's Pariah is more like it. #jonathansafranfoer
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Orgasmic-Chemist
11/09/09

@Mike Byhoff: yes. #jonathansafranfoer
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Orgasmic-Chemist
11/09/09

@Foster Kamer: Oh ok, so we should just follow your snarky advice to federal reform then.

Step 1, follow your points from 1-9.

Step 2, wait for the problem to literally implode upon itself to the point that all the cows die of diseases and 1/4 of the population dies.

Step 3, receive federal reform in the style of the auto industry (had to literally go belly up), Banks (Cause a global financial meltdown. Also, since you apparently have read the news lately, what MEANINGFUL reform has taken place??), and Healthcare (a top of debate for almost 100 years for an industry that has no possible economic future for our country and bankrupts more people than the recent financial collapse).

Step 4, (see your step 11) #jonathansafranfoer
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jeetjet
11/08/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
I ate at Franny's in Brooklyn yesterday. Asked the waiter if "shade-grown" coffee means that the day laborers only have to pick the beans when it's cool and overcast so they don't break a sweat. #jonathansafranfoer
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raincoaster
11/08/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
I used to work at Greenpeace and I took great joy in yelling at the vegans as they went on their cigarette breaks, "CIGARETTES ARE TESTED ON ANIMALS!!!"

Also, I would give the fish eye to the vegans who complained their dogs and cats were doing poorly after being switched to a vegan diet. I was, like, "why'd you get a carnivore for a pet, dumbass, I mean Bro?"

I was, of course, universally beloved there. #jonathansafranfoer
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krudd
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Am I self-hating vegetarian because I laughed at this and love Anthony Bourdain? #jonathansafranfoer
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snugbug
11/08/09

@krudd: No. You're a person with a sense of humor--a precious asset in any circumstance. #jonathansafranfoer
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SpyMagician
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
I used to work with this guy who would cook some chicken and rice for us all in the office—a huge loft—and he would always ask me, "Hey, this tastes better than pussy, right?" And he would even lead up to the cooking by saying, "Just you wait, this stuff tastes better than pussy."

You know what it? It didn’t taste like pussy. It tasted like the most amazing chicken on earth. Meat is great!
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Edited by SpyMagician at 11/07/09 10:33 PM SpyMagician was starred SpyMagician was unstarred

missdelite
11/08/09

@SpyMagician: So's pussy - when it's fresh. #jonathansafranfoer
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Clarissima
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
There are really twelve things:

12. eat some brains!! (aka: sweetbreads)
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Edited by Clarissima at 11/07/09 10:29 PM Clarissima was starred Clarissima was unstarred

Kakapo
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
I'd just like to point out that the comments from the meat eaters in this thread are far more sanctimonious than the comments from the vegetarions. Also, I've never encountered these guilt-tripping vegetarians that seem to be persecuting all of you. I say this as an occasional meat-eater who grew up in the South and therefore has eaten many, many times my body weight in delicious bacon. #jonathansafranfoer
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Maulleigh
11/08/09

@Kakapo: I've met two sanctimonious vegetarians. They're assholes. But it could be about anything. I've also met sanctimonious mac users. They're the same type. #jonathansafranfoer
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Kakapo
11/08/09

@Maulleigh: It may well be because I'm a New Yorker, and vegetarians seem to be few and far between here. If I were on the west coast, maybe I'd encounter the sanctimonious type more often. #jonathansafranfoer
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shostakobitch
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Yo Saffron, I got some meat you'll really cry about eating!! Hickory dickory doc - it's in my pants! Eyyyyyyyy! #jonathansafranfoer
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Astroblack
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
So eco-liberals have finally found their version of the "pro-life" issue. They've found the perfect innocent object to project all their little romantic fantasies on to and build their self-righteous politics around. (for liberals now, its animals. For conservatives, the fetus). Its a beautiful thing to get behind because it allows you to conveniently bypass all the actual human misery that you ignore on a daily basis (homelessness, poverty, the fucked up criminal justice system) but still hold on to a smug sense of self-righteousness. And its great because animals and fetuses won't sass back you, or undermine your politics by being all messy and inconsistent the way human beings do. #jonathansafranfoer
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shostakobitch
11/07/09

@Astroblack: So you're saying i should eat a foetus, or "california cheeseburger"? #jonathansafranfoer
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Mediahohoho
11/07/09

Yeah! Fucking eco-liberals! #jonathansafranfoer
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bens
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Good work Foster on calling out the obnoxious bacon groups. Yeah, bacon might taste good. But if you need to be part of a bacon fan club for people to know you're "quirky," commit suicide now. Making halloween costumes out of bacon is lame, and no one will want to be around you. Bacon flavored chapstick will make your date want to hurl. Posting recipes online of bacon-infused dishes is lame. If you want bacon, just eat bacon. Its a meat, not an identity. #jonathansafranfoer
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lukeoneil47
11/07/09

@bens: @SpyMagician:

[putthatshitonthelist.blogspot.com] #jonathansafranfoer
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moifauxmail
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
Thank God for for wealthy white people and their lengthy screeds about how awful all their choices are.

I can't wait for Michael Chabon's book exposing the evils of smartphones.

Fucking vegans, worrying all the time, making themselves all tough and stringy. #jonathansafranfoer
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Rosewater
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
why is it that people who eat meat get so angry and defensive when reminded of how fucked up and cruel factory farming is and how bad huge meat consumption is for the planet?
Because you know it's true, and you realize you're not going to do anything about your actions and you feel guilty. Just admit that you feel bad about helping to contribute to greenhouse gases and animal cruelty, but not enough to actually modify your lifestyle or inconvenience yourself for the sake of something bigger than you, and that's just the kind of person you are. #jonathansafranfoer
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Freddie DeBoer
11/07/09

@Rosewater: Will you admit to knowing that you engage in consumption that causes the poor and powerless of this world enormous pain, and that you feel bad, but not enough to actually modify your lifestyle or inconvenience yourself for the sake of something bigger than you, and that's the kind of person you are? #jonathansafranfoer
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bens
11/07/09

@Rosewater: Did you type this while enjoying a salad that's been trucked halfway across the country, then held in your grocery store's climate-controlled aisles, to be purchased and driven home to your house to sit in your fridge until you had your salad? The issue isn't meat or no meat. Its eating local. Do you know how many resources have to go towards having fresh produce year-round in your grocery store? Its wrong for people in the North East to have fresh tomatoes when there's snow on the ground. Eating locally produced fresh food is the only way you can make your argument without having a huge hole in it. #jonathansafranfoer
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sparklyharempants
11/07/09

@Freddie DeBoer: I think that the choice to eat less animal products and to choose local, organic ones is much less difficult than finding affordable clothing not made in China. Not that you don't have a point. #jonathansafranfoer
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Claire Buoyant
11/07/09

@bens: Eating local isn't necessarily the better environmental choice.
[www.newyorker.com] #jonathansafranfoer
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pssshwhatever
11/07/09

@Rosewater: I think the assumption that there's guilt there for most people is just...wrong. There's no guilt. It just gets old to hear about how terrible your choices are from self-righteous people that also make a whole host of terrible choices on a daily basis, just not that one particular choice that you enjoy making. The whole thing is incredibly smug and annoying. It's not annoying because we feel guilty, it's annoying because we don't feel guilty and being told that we secretly feel how others *think* we should feel, but we're just not awesome enough to realize it or admit it, is ridiculous and condescending. In fact, I think "condescending" is exactly the way to categorize this whole thing. #jonathansafranfoer
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krismry
11/07/09

@bens: produce trucked from far away also means cruelty to farmworkers. #jonathansafranfoer
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lukeoneil47
11/07/09

@krismry: Almost everything we do has negative consequences for the earth, other people, etc in some way. Trying to eliminate one of those things is nothing to be ashamed of.

I eat meat all the time. I would rather not contribute to giant agriculture corps. And yet I do. I will probably also smoke a cigarette in the next few minutes. I'd rather not. The end. #jonathansafranfoer
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gawkimo
11/08/09

@Rosewater: Unless you've dropped off the grid in America and eat out of dumpsters or you're typing your self-righteous screed on a 10-year-old PC in a UN-funded library in Kenya: STFU.

Moderation in all things would solve a lot of problems; being a foodie fundamentalist only serves to feed your self esteem. #jonathansafranfoer
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Rosewater
11/08/09

@Freddie DeBoer: Yes, I can admit that. Except that I do feel that I try to modify my behavior when I'm aware of it and can make a change, for the most part. I certainly don't think I'm perfect,there are plenty of things I do that have nasty ramifications, I just try to do these things less often and when I can afford it. #jonathansafranfoer
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Rosewater
11/08/09

@bens: I totally agree and try and eat locally and seasonal fruits and veg. #jonathansafranfoer
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If_I_Had_a_Poodle
11/07/09

In reply to Eleven Things You Could Do Instead of Reading Jonathan Safran Foer's Book about Not Eating Meat
There's another answer: press for the humane and decent treatment of farm animals.

The old deal on small farms used to be that animals were treated relatively decently for their short lives and were then killed and eaten.

The new math, of treating them with unrelenting abuse and subjecting them to uninterrupted misery from birth to death is not only morally wrong, but creates health problems for them, treated with rivers of antibiotics, which are killing us. #jonathansafranfoer
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reimoise
11/07/09

@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: Hearted for your amazing, spot-on answer. #jonathansafranfoer
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Atilla the Bun
11/07/09

@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: ITA. My main issue with eating meat and animal products is not that eating these things is inherently wrong, but rather the awful ways the animals are treated in industrial farming. It is an ugly, ugly business. That's what I wish people would really consider rather than flipping out at the mere suggestion that there are ethical issues with our current farming system.
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bens
11/07/09

@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: PETA groups in England are trying to press the government to making Kosher meat illegal because Kosher slaughter doesn't kill the cows fast enough. Considering that Kosher slaughtering was prescribed because it kills the animal painlessly, its a crock of shit. #jonathansafranfoer
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sparklyharempants
11/07/09

@If_I_Had_a_Poodle: And eat LESS of them. No one needs to eat meat 3 meals a day, 7 days a week. #jonathansafranfoer
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lukeoneil47
11/07/09

@Atilla the Bun: @ If_I_Had_a_Poodle: agreed 100% #jonathansafranfoer
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lukeoneil47
11/07/09

@sparklyharempants: So fucking true. People who eat big breakfasts and lunches are disgusting. Unless you are a manual laborer you do not need to eat anything than a few small snacks a day and one full meal. Disgusting greedy fat asses. #jonathansafranfoer
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