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New York, 4:02 AM
Thu Dec 17
60 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of debatem1 debatem1
    11/25/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    Stupid question: Murdoch is railing against the search engines because he thinks they're stealing from him. Ok, so, that explains why he'd delist from Google- but not why he'd list on Bing. What gives?
     Reply
    GlasgowRose promoted this comment Nick Denton approved this comment debatem1 was starred debatem1 was unstarred
    Image of GlasgowRose GlasgowRose
    11/25/09

    @debatem1: Murdoch still wants buzz & word of mouth -- and other media brands reporting on WSJ's scoops -- but wants to keep Google in its place. Bing gives him leverage to wrest a better Google deal...
     Reply
    GlasgowRose was starred GlasgowRose was unstarred
    Image of Alaska Miller Alaska Miller
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    It's like telling a city bus to stop only at Burger King instead of McDonald's and expecting everyone to pay extra for free ice cream.
     Reply
    Alaska Miller was starred Alaska Miller was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    What is more interesting than search engines paying for content is that this could ultimately save the news media business. Ignoring the concern to Joe Searchy and having to pick a search engine based on the results being listed for their favorite news, this could potentially allow newspapers to gain income and pay their journalists again. Certainly, there is a potential dark cloud with this concept, but there is a bright and shiny one as well The news media could survive based on search engines having to pay for access to content solving their diminishing revenue stream. Hard to say whether this is a short term or long term solution to that issue, but it certainly has potential and I look forward to seeing how this turns out.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/24/09

    @Monty: Paying journalists is a good thing and new revenue streams are vital for news organizations to pay for their current overhead. But the problem with the rosy scenario of search engines funding journalism is that the people who go to search engines looking for news are the ones who care the least about news brands. They're more likely to click on rocketnews.com or whatever it is as they are the WSJ.com. Which is exactly what infuriates newspaper owners like Murdoch. The folks who have favorite news sources are the ones who will go straight to those favorite news sources in the first place.
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/24/09

    @Monty: In this video of Calacanis' original suggestion (or at least the first place, I heard it), he spends a lot of the time proposing sort of a bidding war to get content from the largest media companies, but its success would hinge a great deal on Microsoft's willingness to use exclusivity as a selling point.

    IOW: The content companies would get a revenue stream, but as I hear him, Bing would be the primary beneficiary in the short run.
     Reply
    Edited by Magister at 11/24/09 6:15 PM Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/24/09

    @Magister: Agreed. "Bing: The Only Place to Find the Wall Street Journal" would make a catchy tag line. And Microsoft probably like to lure in some other big-name brands. But I can't see them extending the same offer to smaller, lesser-known news orgs. McClatchy anyone?
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Monty Monty
    11/24/09

    @Gabriel Snyder: I think we are all in agreement. It is hard to know whether this agreement will ultimately be a winner for the news media or not. Will it even work for News Corp, let alone for small newspapers around the country? Why would Bing pay for content from the Eugene, Oregon Register Guard? Hard to imagine. That said, it is interesting to see this unfold - and I admit that I doubt either the rosy outlook nor the doom and gloom one will come to be. Usually truth falls somewhere in the middle, which in this case means it will not matter much.
     Reply
    Monty was starred Monty was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/24/09

    @Gabriel Snyder: I don't know how far down Microsoft would like to go, but McClatchy owns a lot of big local papers. For instance in North Carolina, they own the two largest in the state, so maybe they could do some print trading and a couple of television ads saying something like "Bing: The exclusive index for the Charlotte Observer".

    Murdoch might be the one to pioneer this and he might get some quick income, but if Microsoft is willing to pay and if they're willing to negotiate something with the other players, Google could easily lose market share over the long run.
     Reply
    Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    What happens when you look for a foreign or local story? I assume the Fox O&Os will be part of the equation, as will their Australian and UK papers.

    Though the biggest difference for the average American Google user will probably be the inability to read WSJ stories without paying a subscription.
     Reply
    Edited by Magister at 11/24/09 5:45 PM Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of sweetpickles sweetpickles
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    Yes. You'll find the same news at other sites by searching through Google. This isn't only about Murdoch walling off his sites, though. This is about Microsoft and News Corp. making a move to bring the internet closer to the cable television model. Search is going to become less about algorhythms and more about marketing dollars. Bing could become a curated search destination, built on the brands of established media companies. You might one day pay for a Bing app. to bring you its content resources. I don't think it's far fetched. The phone company and cable have been doing the same thing for decades: Providing a premium utility. You remember the White Pages, right?
     Reply
    sweetpickles was starred sweetpickles was unstarred
    Image of Hello Mister Walrus Hello Mister Walrus
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    I think this is really audience-specific. I work for a bank, so if I had to choose between Google + no WSJ and some other search engine that is 97% as good as Google + WSJ, I would have to choose the latter. I imagine that old people, conservatives, and many other smaller groups of people might feel the same way. Add all these pieces up, and it could sum to a non-negligible percentage of market share.
     Reply
    Hello Mister Walrus was starred Hello Mister Walrus was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    11/24/09

    @Hello Mister Walrus: I work at a private bank and I completely agree. The problem is you and I and the old fogeys don't really represent a vast majority of Google's search audience.
     Reply
    Hello Mister Walrus promoted this comment Gabriel Snyder approved this comment NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    11/24/09

    @Hello Mister Walrus: I would be very interested in having a conversation with the (according to the stereotypes) conservative fans of Fox News who are ok with one company strong-arming them into using their product through backroom deals, rather than by improving the quality of their products. Free market!

    Wait, scratch that. What am I talking about? I do not want to have to wade through that conversation.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Nick Nick
    11/24/09

    @OCEntertainment: i also work at a bank. i use Google Finance for a lot and hate the Fox Business site. if i need something Fox News related (which i do like) i go straight to them. i also use Bloomberg. i am just typing my opinion because i like the sight of my own words.
     Reply
    Nick was starred Nick was unstarred
    Image of OCEntertainment OCEntertainment
    11/24/09

    @Nick: I'm pretty sure you could include that last sentence with any comment posted in any comment thread on the internet and still be properly poking fun at the commenter/article you're responding to (as well as yourself).

    Thanks for the perspective. I'm logging off early tonight.
     Reply
    OCEntertainment was starred OCEntertainment was unstarred
    Image of Hello Mister Walrus Hello Mister Walrus
    11/24/09

    @NorwoodIsMyHero: But what % are these people (bankers, business people and old fogeys)? 10%? More? To a casual Google user, that's not much. To Google, that's 10% of their business.
     Reply
    Hello Mister Walrus was starred Hello Mister Walrus was unstarred
    Image of Hello Mister Walrus Hello Mister Walrus
    11/24/09

    @Nick: I don't care about Fox News, and I suspect that many people don't really, other than for the entertainment value. I care about the WSJ only, out of News Corp's publications. Unfortunately, the WSJ is a very important publication in finance. Since not missing finance news is part of my livelihood, I might be forced to use Bing if News Corp drops Google.

    I disapprove of these business practices that artificially entice people to use specific search engines. However, this does not make me immune to the effects.
     Reply
    Edited by Hello Mister Walrus at 11/24/09 5:55 PM Hello Mister Walrus was starred Hello Mister Walrus was unstarred
    Image of NorwoodIsMyHero NorwoodIsMyHero
    11/25/09

    @Hello Mister Walrus: I don't think we'd completely stop using Google though. At work and in news searches, I certainly would be using Bing, but at home I'd probably still use Google by default, and only if I specifically was looking for news would I switch, which when I'm home is basically never as I get plenty of it throughout the workday.
     Reply
    NorwoodIsMyHero was starred NorwoodIsMyHero was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    And notice in that first search that while News Corp. is saying it can live without Google, it's also buying up ad keywords like "lieberman public option" to send people to WSJ.com.
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/24/09

    @Gabriel Snyder: I haven't read the WSJ's affiliate agreement and am too lazy to look for it now, but does it preclude people from buying keywords and coding them with their number?
     Reply
    Edited by Magister at 11/24/09 5:54 PM Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/24/09

    @Magister: Good point. The ad isn't being served to me any more, so I can't see what the affiliate code was.
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/24/09

    @Gabriel Snyder: The same, here. I went to look before making the suggestion, but the ads were gone (maybe they're on restricted hours) and Hamilton's post had made it onto the front page.
     Reply
    Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of manchops manchops
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    but have you tried googling:
    "Andrea Peyser + sex goddess?"

    I mean, hello?
     Reply
    manchops was starred manchops was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    Perfect.

    And if they take even one step in the direction of "You can't quote our stories" they will drive themselves so far into irrelevancy ...
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    11/24/09

    @If_I_Had_a_Poodle: Let's hope they take that bait.
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of Heneage Heneage
    11/24/09

    In reply to A Glimpse of Google without News Corp.: No Big Loss
    Servicy.
     Reply
    Heneage was starred Heneage was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    10/31/09

    In reply to Nobody Loves Weepy VP Joe
    Biden was the most inscrutable choice, ever, for VP. Instead of "change" Obama brought out an old hack, who had trouble with both truth telling, even during the campaign, and with inserting his foot into his mouth. Oh, to know what kind of negotiation that was, to get him on the ticket---except, perhaps to allay terrified old white guys who feared a woman and a (half)black man on the ticket would bring on the apocalypse. #joebiden
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of Thistledew Thistledew
    10/30/09

    In reply to Nobody Loves Weepy VP Joe
    apparently I am in the minority, but I love Joe Biden! I think he's like the lovable Steve Urkel of the White House. He comes in, says stupid stuff, knocks shit over, and is like "Did I do that?" Oh Joe. #joebiden
     Reply
    applejuice promoted this comment Thistledew was starred Thistledew was unstarred
    Image of ModestProposal ModestProposal
    10/30/09

    In reply to Nobody Loves Weepy VP Joe
    Joe Biden is everything thats wrong and fucked up with congress. This dope won his seat in the Senate when he was 29 and has never had another job until being VP. He has learned about as much about how the country works from his perch in DC as Palin learned about Russia from staring at it. He is walking proof we need term limits.

    And he doesn't drink. I don't trust people who don't drink, unless they've already been alcoholics. #joebiden
     Reply
    ModestProposal was starred ModestProposal was unstarred
    Image of Motoko Kusanagi Motoko Kusanagi
    10/30/09

    In reply to Nobody Loves Weepy VP Joe
    Why is it that I feel compelled to defend Gawker's subject matter against the editors/writers at least once a day lately?

    Either this new crop of staff writers is utterly fucked, or the editorial direction has taken a nosedive, or both.

    Is there some negative correlation between the quality of stories and the quality of AJAX/CSS? #joebiden
     Reply
    Motoko Kusanagi was starred Motoko Kusanagi was unstarred
    Image of romulus romulus
    10/30/09

    @Motoko Kusanagi: From where I'm standing, it would appear to be a positive correlation. It's a good day when I get tripped up by fewer than five unresponsive scripts, infinite waits for comments to load or what have you. #joebiden
     Reply
    Motoko Kusanagi promoted this comment romulus was starred romulus was unstarred
    Image of Motoko Kusanagi Motoko Kusanagi
    10/30/09

    @romulus: The site gets prettier, and the content gets lamer. Just callin it as I see it. #joebiden
     Reply
    Motoko Kusanagi was starred Motoko Kusanagi was unstarred
    Image of romulus romulus
    10/30/09

    @Motoko Kusanagi: Oh yeah, I didn't mean to quibble. I agree that the site gets fancier all the time, but features seem to break often. I should have added before that it could well be my OS and browser causing headaches most readers don't experience. And in all fairness, I haven't been reading long enough to judge contemporary content against the past. #joebiden
     Reply
    romulus was starred romulus was unstarred
    Image of meerkat meerkat
    10/30/09

    In reply to Nobody Loves Weepy VP Joe
    Not sure what point you're trying to make, Amrita... that you think Cheney's worldview makes some sense? That Cheney was initially popular, before everything he did brought his popularity rating to a low of 28%? I love it that Biden is willing to call a moron a moron. This is a ridiculous post. #joebiden
     Reply
    meerkat was starred meerkat was unstarred
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