If a fanboy (named Quint) who got a sneak peek is worried, Cameron should worry:
"This shot scared me a bit… when Moore and Worthington are introduced to their Avatars, floating in blue liquid in tubes we get our first look at the Na’vi and… it looked just okay. Because of the liquid the definition of the alien (big, blue, wide-nosed, long pointy ears, thin tail) was at best plain and the real impressiveness of these creatures and the technology used to bring them to life doesn’t crop up until later scenes."
Do people really get off on seeing a bunch of CGI stuff blow up?
I mean, isn't the whole point of why we like the CGI effects in other movies that they look realistic enough that we don't even see them as CGI and therefore can relate to them viscerally? When your whole movie is CGI, and you actually make a point of it, and you actually design everything so that it basically looks like a cartoon, then why would any of that "wow" anyone?
I love animation and I'm a big anime geek, but I don't love the stuff I love because of the special effects, but because of the characters and story. Evangelion (which Cameron is a fan of too) isn't a classic anime because of how great it looks - it never was all that beautiful even when it was new, and it's old now - it's a classic because of the rich and complex story, and the relatable (if whiny) characters.
Long answer. There are a lot of people who will see this movie.
Hell, every person here trying to outwit the next with ferngully / smurf / titanic references has probably already bought tickets to this "fiasco" so they can be even more informed about how much this is going to suck.
And when the Blu-Ray comes out, it will sell to millions of people who will show to others how much they thought "this scene was awesome, but the rest of this sucked"
Even when James Cameron makes crap, it's glorious.
Michelle Rodriguez is in this. Hellooooo! Nothing says suckfest more than another tough as nails, butt-kicking, stink-eye-stare giving performance from Michelle Rodriguez.
Despite all the awfulness, I'm still rooting for this movie. Yes, it is a vanity project run amok but I'm hoping someone will be interested enough to spend $10 to see this mess. $300+ million is a hell of a lot of money to spend on sparkly Blue Men aliens. Hopefully the video game nerds will come through for James.
This is the point where I think they fucked up: everyone says "yeah, ok, the trailers aren't great, but once you see it in 3-D, it will blow your mind." The problem is that most people see the trailers on their TV or their computer, which is not 3-D, and conclude it sucks, and don't go to the theater to see it. Am I missing something?
@Dave J.: I think that may actually work in their favor because people like me who see the trailer in non-3-D and think it sucks might nonetheless give it a pass and go see it anything thinking "if I see it in 3-D it might blow my mind."
@MisterHippity: Little known factoid for ya,,, Sparkle-smurf was Vanity Smurfs,,,special friend,, ah roommate. They were very close, until the incident with Papa smurf and Sparkle at the annual smurf-tacular after too much smurf-jesus-juice.
the problem with this movie is that people have already been forced to make up their minds on how they feel about it.
Once that happens, all anyone is doing is sorting through the film for evidence that their opinion- good or bad- is valid and correct, instead of actually forming an opinion based on the movie itself.
I'ts doomed to fail before it even hits theatres, because people have had months to chew the cud and glom onto the expanding ameoba of public opinion.
There have been plenty of examples in the past of big blockbuster projects that were rumored to really suck before they were released, but then turned out to be good. And the negative expectations didn't stop the public from quickly embracing those films and hailing them as great.
So if Avatar is actually good after all, the world will acknowledge that, fear not.
But it's getting very difficult to imagine how it could possibly be good, after seeing those trailers. They are, in fact, scenes from the film. And they are dreadful.
@psybab: The reality is, only a small sliver of the public - movie nerds and industry folks, really - are even aware of this this "pre-release buzz" stuff.
The vast majority of the film-going public hears nothing about the film until the critics weigh in just before it gets released.
CGI still just looks like CGI, no matter how good/expensive/tech-y it is. I see CGI, and I think "oh, hmm, that's CGI." I would rather watch a movie with models and puppets and people in costumes--hey, Star Wars!--any day of the week than a CGI-driven special effects spectacular like any of the Star Wars prequels.
Well, you've got to think that if having Stephen Lang narrate the intro to this magnum ooops!!! was the best idea the producers could come up with, the good money says that this could be the crown jewel in a long and storied crown of mega-budgeted turkeys.
@TheSometimesWhy: I've been amazed at Lang's transformation from amazing to uber-buff since Season Two of Crime Story. It's as though he was overcome by the mind and body of Jean Claude VanDamme.
@Bindlestiffy: Bindlestiffy, the thought of anyone being overcome by the mind and body of JCVD is a mirage. First of all, JVCD lost whatever vestigial neurological organ he had years ago. (Coke will do that to you.) As for his body, no argument here, but as a heterosexual middle-aged man, I can't remember the last time I went to the movies to see an actor's body.
Actually, check that--Abe Vigoda in The Godfather comes to mind...
I like this movie. It just proves that all of the technology in the world can never save you from a bad script, horrible character design, wooden dialogue and etc, etc...
Seriously, this only makes me want to go see Fantastic Mr. Fox and Where the Wild Things Are.
Hey wait: Is this the year of lots of big name directors making hi-tech children films?
You are in a very enviable position.
One that allowed you to make (or re-make) virtually any project that you set your mind to.
You had at your command, a choice of any actor, designer, tech expert, writer and any of a seemingly unending vortex of talent that would have make themselves available to you. Literally, you had your pick from anyone. These people would have queued-up for a chance to work on a high-end, top-drawer and perhaps even important project knowing that you were at the helm.
And yet this, THIS is the project you chose above all others. This child's movie is what you made when you could have actually been the leader of a production that mattered. A project that you could have looked-back on with pride and, when in your dotage, could have reminisced:
"Yes, I made this. This film, this art would not have been possible but for me."
But instead you made this insignificant, derivative, wasteful piece of kiddie fluff.
You could have made anything.
You chose to make this.
You will never have this opportunity again.
Your choice in this matter is unfathomable to any thinking person.
@phlox✔: "Never have this opportunity again"? What the hell are you blathering about? We're talking about James Cameron here, not M. Night Shyamalan. The man may be an asshole who's incapable of staying on budget, but he's made more classics than most directors have made movies, and those classics have made Scrooge McDuck quantities of money. I can't imagine how tremendously Cameron would have to fuck up for him to have a "last chance" but while Avatar may be goofy and age hideously, it's not going to wreck his career.
Oh, and you want to see real art? Watch Aliens. Better than 99% of the film-festival drearfests I've sat through.
@Superawesomerad: I LOVE Aliens!! My friends don't understand my obsession but I stop to watch it every time it's on TV and will pop in the DVD more often than I'd like to admit. Finally, a fellow obsessive. :)
@Superawesomerad: The crux of my blather is that it's quite disappointing when someone (Cameron et al) has every potential resource available to them and then produces something mediocre and unoriginal.
Yes, Aliens (1986) is a fun monster movie. It's also the sequel to a film that reinvented the science-fiction movie genre (i.e., original, important and better).
I don't actually give two shits about James Cameron, I'm just unhappy (from a creative standpoint) when I see opportunities squandered so palpably.
@phlox✔: But this was a passion project for him. I'd rather see someone follow their passion than just go along with what others feel should be the obvious next step, especially when they have the power to do so. Besides, he's a tech geek who gets most of his enjoyment from that perspective alone and won't pay as close attention to detail when it comes to narrative (a good trait in a director it is not but they each have their weaknesses.) Not that Avatar is going to be anywhere near as successful, if at all, but those faults didn't exactly hurt Titanic (a movie I hate by the way.) At least he kept people employed for a while even if you feel the budget and their talents weren't used sufficiently and/or efficiently. The reason why the world was at his feet is b/c he does have that kind of almost unlimited power and trust that it won't be suddenly pulled out from under him even if Avatar is a major failure.
I'm getting a Fern Gully feel to this movie for some reason. Something about the "man" wanting to pillage the forest for his own means. And while there's perhaps a message in there somewhere, not sure it's really entertaining, especially in overblown CGI that just looks like a cartoon anyway.
Why were the blue aliens necessary again? Because Cameron could create them? That does seem very George Lucas like of him.
Also, I'm going to be really upset if they waste Sigourney Weaver. There's just no excuse for that.
11/25/09
"This shot scared me a bit… when Moore and Worthington are introduced to their Avatars, floating in blue liquid in tubes we get our first look at the Na’vi and… it looked just okay. Because of the liquid the definition of the alien (big, blue, wide-nosed, long pointy ears, thin tail) was at best plain and the real impressiveness of these creatures and the technology used to bring them to life doesn’t crop up until later scenes."
11/25/09
I mean, isn't the whole point of why we like the CGI effects in other movies that they look realistic enough that we don't even see them as CGI and therefore can relate to them viscerally? When your whole movie is CGI, and you actually make a point of it, and you actually design everything so that it basically looks like a cartoon, then why would any of that "wow" anyone?
I love animation and I'm a big anime geek, but I don't love the stuff I love because of the special effects, but because of the characters and story. Evangelion (which Cameron is a fan of too) isn't a classic anime because of how great it looks - it never was all that beautiful even when it was new, and it's old now - it's a classic because of the rich and complex story, and the relatable (if whiny) characters.
11/25/09
Long answer. There are a lot of people who will see this movie.
Hell, every person here trying to outwit the next with ferngully / smurf / titanic references has probably already bought tickets to this "fiasco" so they can be even more informed about how much this is going to suck.
And when the Blu-Ray comes out, it will sell to millions of people who will show to others how much they thought "this scene was awesome, but the rest of this sucked"
Even when James Cameron makes crap, it's glorious.
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
11/25/09
Stop staring at me, sparkle-smurf!
11/25/09
11/25/09
Once that happens, all anyone is doing is sorting through the film for evidence that their opinion- good or bad- is valid and correct, instead of actually forming an opinion based on the movie itself.
I'ts doomed to fail before it even hits theatres, because people have had months to chew the cud and glom onto the expanding ameoba of public opinion.
11/25/09
There have been plenty of examples in the past of big blockbuster projects that were rumored to really suck before they were released, but then turned out to be good. And the negative expectations didn't stop the public from quickly embracing those films and hailing them as great.
So if Avatar is actually good after all, the world will acknowledge that, fear not.
But it's getting very difficult to imagine how it could possibly be good, after seeing those trailers. They are, in fact, scenes from the film. And they are dreadful.
11/25/09
11/25/09
As I recall, it was rumored to be a total disaster, for a full year before it was released.
11/25/09
Before it was released, the rumors were everywhere that Daniel Craig totally sucked as James Bond.
11/25/09
The vast majority of the film-going public hears nothing about the film until the critics weigh in just before it gets released.
11/25/09
11/25/09
A very successful disaster.
#tips
11/24/09
11/24/09
11/24/09
11/24/09
11/24/09
I call the drumstick!
11/24/09
11/24/09
Actually, check that--Abe Vigoda in The Godfather comes to mind...
11/25/09
#tips
11/25/09
#tips
11/23/09
Seriously, this only makes me want to go see Fantastic Mr. Fox and Where the Wild Things Are.
Hey wait: Is this the year of lots of big name directors making hi-tech children films?
11/23/09
You are in a very enviable position.
One that allowed you to make (or re-make) virtually any project that you set your mind to.
You had at your command, a choice of any actor, designer, tech expert, writer and any of a seemingly unending vortex of talent that would have make themselves available to you. Literally, you had your pick from anyone. These people would have queued-up for a chance to work on a high-end, top-drawer and perhaps even important project knowing that you were at the helm.
And yet this, THIS is the project you chose above all others. This child's movie is what you made when you could have actually been the leader of a production that mattered. A project that you could have looked-back on with pride and, when in your dotage, could have reminisced:
"Yes, I made this. This film, this art would not have been possible but for me."
But instead you made this insignificant, derivative, wasteful piece of kiddie fluff.
You could have made anything.
You chose to make this.
You will never have this opportunity again.
Your choice in this matter is unfathomable to any thinking person.
phlox
11/23/09
Oh, and you want to see real art? Watch Aliens. Better than 99% of the film-festival drearfests I've sat through.
11/24/09
11/24/09
Yes, Aliens (1986) is a fun monster movie. It's also the sequel to a film that reinvented the science-fiction movie genre (i.e., original, important and better).
I don't actually give two shits about James Cameron, I'm just unhappy (from a creative standpoint) when I see opportunities squandered so palpably.
11/24/09
11/23/09
I'm getting a Fern Gully feel to this movie for some reason. Something about the "man" wanting to pillage the forest for his own means. And while there's perhaps a message in there somewhere, not sure it's really entertaining, especially in overblown CGI that just looks like a cartoon anyway.
Why were the blue aliens necessary again? Because Cameron could create them? That does seem very George Lucas like of him.
Also, I'm going to be really upset if they waste Sigourney Weaver. There's just no excuse for that.