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In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
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onebadclam
08/10/09

In reply to In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
Regardless of what side of the health care debate we support, we can all agree Gretchen completely misunderstood the statement she had just read on national television.
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se7a7n7
08/10/09

In reply to In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
Facts tend to have a Liberal slant to them.
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atlasfugged
08/10/09

@se7a7n7: Facts are Muslin and Gay. The truth is American and Christian, you feel it your gut, like a double quarter-pounder with cheese, and in your heart, like angina.
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m4ximusprim3
08/10/09

@atlasfugged: I dunno about you, but I an't got no angina. Them's women parts.

And THAT's a fact.
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Edited by m4ximusprim3 at 08/10/09 6:49 PM m4ximusprim3 was starred m4ximusprim3 was unstarred

se7a7n7
08/10/09

@atlasfugged: Why do you think the word "facts" sounds so much like "fags"? Because that's what facts are for.
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Perhaps Not
08/10/09

In reply to In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
You know, Alex, I'd love to have your mind. Not your blood pressure, of course, but your mind, definitely.
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WhiteMan'sBourbon
08/10/09

In reply to In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
The only thing I learned from the HBO John Adams was that the reason Ben Franklin is smiling in that famous Houdon bust is because he was elbow-deep in like three French aristocrat groupies at the same time while he was sitting for his portrait. And that makes me proud to be an American.
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momof3wildkids
08/10/09

In reply to In Which Fox & Friends Debates the Health Care Debate
While I would much prefer reasoned debate in these town hall meetings, I have to wonder how this is any different than the shout outs GWB had with various war protesters. Both protesters obviously feel/felt strongly about the questioned issues.
Contrary to the left's spin, not all the health care protesters are working for some insurance company or PAC. Most are just people who do not like the proposed legislation. I'll grant that there is a nice amount of fearmongering going on, but the Dems need to do a much better job of honestly explaining what this legislation will and won't do. Their PR on this has been piss poor.
And goddammit, all of the legislators should read it from beginning to end to ensure they know what in the hell they are voting on.
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Atilla the Bun
08/10/09

@momof3wildkids: I'm not being rhetorical when I ask this...how do you know that "most" are just people who do not like the proposed legislation? I don't know how many are or aren't, and am quite curious to know. Also, I don't recall GWB holding any "town halls" to discuss the merits of the war. He never gave that option, thus why many people felt their only recourse was to protest and yell about it. We were just told as a country what was going to happen and why, only later to find out the "why" was a big pile of malarkey. In contrast, these are actual town hall meetings where discussion is welcomed (and where the Dems could be asked to "honestly explain what this legislation will and won't do"), and instead they have just devolved into screaming hysteria rallies, which doesn't help anybody on either side.
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Kobayashi Maru
08/10/09

@momof3wildkids: GWB had shout outs with war protesters at town hall meetings? When? I always thought that his town halls were scripted and the membership pre-arranged.
The very goal of the teabaggers/ town hall disruptors is to limit the Dems ability to discuss and explain the plan in a honest way. I am confused how that could possibly be the Dems fault.
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psych101
08/10/09

@Kobayashi Maru: That's what I remember too - carefully selected audiences of mostly Republicans who asked softball questions. Anyone who asked an incendiary question was likely to be kicked out.
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ChillbearLatrigue
08/10/09

@Kobayashi Maru: I was at a Bush Rally in 2004 when war protestors started to try to shout him down. It's not a town hall meeting, but then again he was the President. These protestors are not shouting Obama down. I am sure that a Presidential town hall meeting would be much more "scripted and pre arrranged" than that of a random congressman.As far as the Dems explaining the plan, why don't they put more details on that government website if they want to spread the word? This website [edlabor.house.gov] is like looking at an iceberg. I'm getting 15% of the story. Maybe 14.5% because of global warming.
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Edited by ChillbearLatrigue at 08/10/09 6:02 PM ChillbearLatrigue was starred

momof3wildkids
08/10/09

@psych101: and @Kobayashi Maru I didn't say they were town halls, I just said that the protesters used similar tactics because both groups feel strongly.
The Dems can go on TV, news and the internet and give us the straight scoop. They have been doing a poor job at getting their message across. They went about this the wrong way... First you go out on TV and inform everyone with specifics then you do the town halls. We do not have specifics, only that it doesn't do this or that.
The Dems need to look at the recent CNN poll which I have posted before. 80+% are happy with their health care and 70+% are happy with their health insurance. 40% or so do not feel that the proposed legislation will help them, but may help others.
These are not great numbers for the Democrats if they want the sweeping change they are proposing. They need to find a way to get the facts, WITH DETAILS, out there so people can make up their minds.
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Atilla the Bun
08/10/09

@momof3wildkids: The point of the bill is not to necessarily help the people "happy with their health insurance." Its main goal is to help those with no health insurance, and that means there are many people who will not be helped by the bill. Those poll numbers may reflect how difficult it is to get a bill passed that is largely about helping the minority/less fortunate, but it does not mean the bill is not needed. I agree the Dems should do a better job of explaining the bill in detail, but I seriously doubt its going to change many people's minds about it, and certainly not the Fox news contingent. The fact that these protesters have obviously no interest in discussing the bill, only to yell about it, pretty much proves that.
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Kobayashi Maru
08/10/09

@ChillbearLatrigue: Were the war protesters given airtime on any news channels to discuss how GWB's thugs were coming to their houses in the midddle of the night?
Or were they thrown out of the rally and then completely ignoredby the media? Just curious.
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momof3wildkids
08/10/09

@Atilla the Bun: I'm conservative and I want health care reform. I just don't like this bill. If there was a plan with mandates for coverage and a safety payment net for those who couldn't afford it along with some way to increase the number primary care providers, I'd be all for this.
This bill won't cover all the uninsured. I believe it will crowd out competition because the gov't has different financial requirements (ie. no reserves) than insurance companies. Plus it is going to add millions of patients requiring primary care when we do not have enough providers. (Look at Mass's state health plan. Patients still use the ER as primary care because it takes too long to get into see a doc)
I want reform. I just want it done in a smart way. This way doesn't seem too smart to me.
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Atilla the Bun
08/10/09

@momof3wildkids: Obama & Co. ARE trying to increase the number of primary care providers in conjunction with the bill, primarily by increasing Medicare reimbursements for PC physicians. But I don't think the answer to a shortage of primary care physicians is to continue a system where only those with insurance or a lot of money have access to them. But we could debate the merits of the bill for days. My ultimate point was that the people at these rallies do not strike me as people who are protesting because the bill has not been explained well enough to them. Rather, they are the types that see any kind of healthcare reform that provides insurance to those who cannot otherwise afford it or have access (particularly when many of those people are a different color than them) as an anathema. They won't support ANY healthcare bill.
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ChillbearLatrigue
08/10/09

@Kobayashi Maru: In all honesty, it was a small protest at that one particular even. A small group of people came in, changed their shirts once inside and then began shouting "murderer." They were creating a disturbance and shown the door. I would have to guess that group was ignored. It wasn't a huge deal. I was just citing an example of a disruptive group of war protestors.
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momof3wildkids
08/10/09

@Atilla the Bun: Sadly, I have to agree with you on the discrimination part. I find it shameful. But it isn't certainly isn't everyone.
I think these emotional eruptions are more a sign of FEAR. People are afraid of health care change. Obama and Co could solve a lot of fear mongering if they came up with some hard details. All I have seen is wishy washy (fishy?) glittering generalities that care won't be rationed (it will have to be in some form) and there will be no death panels (I hope so). Dems are so into reactionary mode that the message of what this plan IS is being lost.
Further, I don't think we can keep the current system going. It doesn't work. You are preaching to the choir.

BTW Attila, I found a dairy that makes goat cheese from rescue goats. No gouda, but you have to know that these are well-cared for goats. Interested?
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Edited by momof3wildkids at 08/10/09 7:37 PM momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred

Kobayashi Maru
08/10/09

@ChillbearLatrigue: The protests of Bush's time are nothing like this. The protests of Bush's time were unfortunately irrelevant, even though they were large, and at times admittedly fringe-y, even to us lefties. The Obama protesters are bused in by Freedom Works and given prime air time on Fox. It's no comparison.
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Atilla the Bun
08/10/09

@momof3wildkids: Re the goats--sure email me the info! thatsounds...incredibly weird and kind of awesome.
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takeouteurotrash
08/10/09

@Kobayashi Maru: You don't remember social security reform, I take it? I'm not on any side of the fence...just bringing up the obvious.
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ChillbearLatrigue
08/10/09

@Kobayashi Maru: I think you have a short memory about the scale and scope of the war protests in DC. However, I can tell you that anytime the WTO, FTAA, or any other significant trade organization meeting where foreign ministers gather people are bussed in. What's more they organize groups of attorneys to fight any ordinances that may restrict the protestors from bringing things like batteries and sticks into the protest area. They also have teams of attorneys and people that video tape the police response at the event. And, yes, people are bussed in. I don't really have all that much of a problem with most of these things, but no one should be under the impression that liberal protests are not organized or politically motivated.
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ChillbearLatrigue
08/10/09

@takeouteurotrash: That was a good one. I have a short memory too.
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