You seriously believe that someone understands economics?

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Defying the hatred of the proletariat is what makes America great.

If we all huddled in fear and didn't go out there and buy things, we'd initiate an inflationary spiral. The ability to take timely, effective risks will be the catalyst for the end of the recession.

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I mean, I understand it's important to fly places, but if you've already got a corporate jet, how is getting a new one going to help your business?

Tell me honestly...please, honestly...whether you think the people at the top levels here are going to try and take the money that we've given them (really: take the money that's been taken for us, because I don't remember anyone consulting me on this bailout issue) and use it to shore up their bad investments and rebuild the economy, or are they going to take every opportunity to cut their losses, hide their assets, and run, preserving their own wealth and letting their industries go to hell?

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The ROI on the office investment is great - Thain's returning the money. It paid for itself in a year! The man made a mistake and now he's paying penance. As for Fuld, hey, the tax loophole is there - if you don't like it, make Obama close it.

As for the jet, I don't have the ROI projections but I'm sure CIT does. These financial executives aren't blundering idiots, despite the media's misguided attempts to make them out to be. I'll give you the CDO/CDS market as a major failure, but The Government pioneered that approach! Every other business in banking is profitable except for mark-to-market asset performance. All that "lost money" isn't even real!

These CEOs are just really, really, really bad at PR. And frankly, fuck the public's opinion. You don't care what the ROI is on a corporate jet; you just want to get out your torches and pitchforks for every single corporate expense at a bank. You have no idea how to make money in banking, so don't climb the high horse of your tax dollars and tell banks how to do business. If Joe Public made investment and business decisions by virtue of tax dollar participation we'd be well and truly fucked, okay? All the armchair financiers need to be ignored for those of us who actually understand this business to do some.

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Just a small correction - meant deflationary. Rage-typing.

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As much as i have a visceral desire to see these fat cats fry, I can kind of see some of your arguments. But this just boils down to "trust us, we're experts," and that's exactly what led to the current meltdown. Legislators and Presidents from both parties listened to the foxes and put them in charge of the hen house, and oddly enough, they ate all the chickens. After fuck-ups of the present magnitude, expect intense scrutiny of every decision and expenditure. You earned it.

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From aviationattorneys.com :

The federal Modified Accelerated Cost-Recovery System (MACRS) allows businesses to recuperate the investment cost for the purchase of an aircraft designated for business or corporate use. The cost of the business aircraft is subtracted from the basis on a company's tax return through depreciation deductions. Accelerated depreciation is the, "big lure"; the MACRS program is using to entice companies to purchase more aircraft for business use. Companies are allowed to deduct up to 75% in some cases of the purchase price of the aircraft the year the aircraft is purchased but the aircraft has to be put into service that year. The remaining cost of the aircraft will have to be deducted as depreciation from consequent tax returns. Under MACRS, business aircraft are allowed a seven-year lifespan in which to deduct the remaining value from the basis.

The gist: they figure everyone hates them now, so they'll buy the plane in a bad year and write most of it off their books.

This is a good thing. If everyone didn't bother to buy aircraft or property simply because the economy was down we'd go into a "deflationary spiral." Yes, it's a corporate jet and LOL AUTOMAKERS etc., but this is bullish sign for the economy. Corporations are taking financial risks designed to assist with future profitability. For CIT, a dealmaking jet is part of that.

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As in my other post - I don't give a flying fuck about the PR. You'll hate and misunderstand banks no matter what the Times prints. They didn't buy a toy - they bought an asset that will be used to either a.) lower costs or b.) increase revenues.

What would you have them do with the money? Hand it out?

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Does buying a jet a.) help or b.) hurt the aviation equipment industry? Does it stimulate economic activity, or cause it to contract?

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It's not a "flashy luxury item." That's the point I'm making. It's used for business purposes.

And besides, do taxpayers want banks to stimulate the economy - or do they want to decide how the economy is stimulated? That's the groin I'm really trying to kick in my commentary.

All this media coverage isn't about what the banks by, or with what money - it's about how there's a growing sense that the public wants the money spent in specific areas. Which is not good.

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It may not have done a great deal for their bottom line, but in a crisis, ACT LIKE YOU ARE IN A CRISIS.

No. That's actually exactly what you don't do. What has panic accomplished, in this or any other endeavor?

And as for you "buying" my argument, well, that's up to you. I think you'd be hard-pressed to justify your fears with an argument about usage or ROI on that plane. All you've got going for you is a media meme about the extravagant evils of private planes.

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