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New York, 2:39 AM
Thu Dec 3
50 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Voyou_Charmant Voyou_Charmant
    12/02/09

    In reply to How the Climate Change Summit Will Be Spun
    I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose of the "hoax" is supposed to be.

    Maybe I'm not lurking the right conspiracy sites, but the only thing I've been able to determine, based on a passing Alex Jones quote, is that environmentalism (as a whole?) is an attempt to steal your land. And then... I don't know.

    Can anyone explain to me why anyone could be so angrily against curbing pollution?

    That's what it really boils down to, as far as I can tell. Even if you don't believe that global warming/climate change is real, why would you choose to be against efforts to slow down/half pollution?
     Reply
    Voyou_Charmant was starred Voyou_Charmant was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @Voyou_Charmant: It's money and control. It's always money and control.

    The #1 backers for Cap and Trade originally were Goldman Sachs and Enron.

    It creates a whole new derivatives market in Carbon trading.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: Sorry found some more for you

    "$94 billion that HSBC Bank estimates has been spent globally this year on what it calls "green stimulus"—largely ethanol and other alternative energy schemes—of the kind from which Al Gore and his partners at Kleiner Perkins hope to profit handsomely."

    That is from a WSJ article.

    It's always money and control.
     Reply
    Helio promoted this comment ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of The Van Buren Boys The Van Buren Boys
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: Last I checked, none of the organizations you cited actually do any research. Yes there are some opportunists but that doesn't change physics
     Reply
    The Van Buren Boys was starred The Van Buren Boys was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @The Van Buren Boys: But the only reason this business exists is due to tis research. Not to mention grants. From that same WSJ article.

    "Consider the case of Phil Jones, the director of the CRU and the man at the heart of climategate. According to one of the documents hacked from his center, between 2000 and 2006 Mr. Jones was the recipient (or co-recipient) of some $19 million worth of research grants, a sixfold increase over what he’d been awarded in the 1990s.

    Why did the money pour in so quickly? Because the climate alarm kept ringing so loudly: The louder the alarm, the greater the sums. And who better to ring it than people like Mr. Jones, one of its likeliest beneficiaries?"
     Reply
    skt.smth promoted this comment ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: cause only oil companies can profit handsomely right? Only carbon-based energy companies get all the "money and control"? Cause if you're a green company, you're trying to "force" me to consume something I'm not used to!?! Quelle horreur!

    If these energy companies are so scared of lost profits, maybe they should invest in "green" technologies too. It's not anyone else's problem but their own that they put all their eggs into a non-renewable resource.
     Reply
    Edited by Helio at 12/02/09 6:32 PM Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @Helio: Enron was another big backer of earlier Cap and Trade legislation. Think on that for a minute.

    You seem to think it is more noble for "green" companies to make money based off of bad research than oil companies.

    "Green" technology will be embraced when it can produce cheaper and better energy. Technology still needs to catch up to that.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: I should have said earlier that I wasn't pro-cap and trade, precisely for the reason you cited (that it creates yet another derivatives market) but where did I say anything about green companies being more noble? I just prefer there be more options available. What's wrong with diversifying the ways we power our lives?

    Furthermore, it seemed to me that you, or whoever your friends are that are concerned over "money and control," are not acknowledging that energy companies already have substantial "money and control" yet you (or they) defend them in spite of this new technology. Sure, it may be expensive/inefficient now, but the price of oil will only go up, and once it reaches $100, will I hear you bitching about windfall profits from Exxon Mobil?
     Reply
    Edited by Helio at 12/02/09 7:02 PM Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @Helio: I am not really trying to defend energy companies. I just don't want Cap and Trade type legislation to emerge and I am very tired of global warming talk.

    If oil goes up again Americans will respond as we did before and stop using as much. There are vast amounts of untapped oil and gas we would need to use up before this becomes a real worry.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: I'm just hoping we'll discover some workable energy alternatives before we ruin the earth trying to wring out every last drop of crude.
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @Helio: I am sure we will. 100 years ago we had no idea what would provide a good amount of power (nuclear). 100 years from now imagine how different it will be.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: You understand that this is what virtually every scientist in the country does, right? They are all competing for grant money in order to pay for their projects, so they write grant requests in order to make their cases. To argue that "ringing the alarm" (i.e. stating your case) implies that you are ginning it all up, simply because there's project money to be gotten for doing so, is specious at best. I mean, was this scientist pocketing the money and buying mansions with it? Where is the impropriety here?
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: Of course, part of finding and developing new energy sources is criticizing the unsuitability, or noting the winding down, of current ones. In order to understand that we need something new, we first have to understand how what we have right now is insufficient.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    12/02/09

    @skt.smth: I have no problem with criticisms. I agree with many of them.

    I do have problems with made up fairy tale criticisms. That is the difference here.

    People are/will be trying to find affordable alternate energy sources because there is a ton of money in it.

    Currently wind/solar/geothermal etc.. just isn't up to snuff yet and this country has an uncommon fear of anything nuclear so that's out.

    Once again my only real problem here is that this science (or lack thereof) has been flawed but policy has been made and legislation written based off of these flawed conclusions.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    12/02/09

    @ConAir34: What are the fairy tale criticisms? Set global warming entirely aside, even though it's quite real and is happening. Urban centers always have staggering asthma rates thanks to air pollution. With or without global warming, it's not safe for anybody to be breathing in massive amounts of this crap. It is a genuine health risk. That anybody would think, well global warming doesn't exist, therefore there are absolutely no problems with carbon emissions, is what really pisses me off. 1) Because it's not true. And 2) because it completely disregards all of the other non-global warming problems related to carbon emissions.
     Reply
    Edited by skt.smth at 12/02/09 11:25 PM skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of ConAir34 ConAir34
    02:19 AM

    @skt.smth: You want to work on air quality issues then that is a different subject and requires a different discussion on it's own.

    They are arguing this legislation based on climate change. That is the fairy tale.
     Reply
    ConAir34 was starred ConAir34 was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    12/02/09

    In reply to How the Climate Change Summit Will Be Spun
    Climate change is real. Deniers are either delusional or paid by the people who are causing the problem.
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of Buttafooco Buttafooco
    12/02/09

    @If_I_Had_a_Poodle: I absolutely agree but the message can get lost on those who need to heed it most when those delivering it are shown to talk the talk, but not walk the walk, as the Times article shows.
    Christ, I am having cabbage for dinner.
     Reply
    Buttafooco was starred Buttafooco was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    12/02/09

    @Buttafooco: The proof of the bad intentions of the deniers is this: if some portion of global warming is part of a natural cycle, shouldn't that make us redouble our efforts to keep from adding to it?
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    12/02/09

    @Buttafooco: The proof of the bad intentions of the deniers is this: if some portion of global warming is part of a natural cycle, shouldn't that make us redouble our efforts to keep from adding to it?
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of Buttafooco Buttafooco
    12/02/09

    @If_I_Had_a_Poodle: apparently, many don't share the notion that we should sometimes nip things in the bud......rather, they prefer to wait until the point of no return. Unfortunately, having read some of the cap and trade proposals, there are way too many loopholes for exploitation by corporations.
     Reply
    Buttafooco was starred Buttafooco was unstarred
    Image of Buttafooco Buttafooco
    12/02/09

    In reply to How the Climate Change Summit Will Be Spun
    The Times actually has an interesting article about this, and the characters featured come out looking quite bad.

    [women.timesonline.co.uk]
     Reply
    Buttafooco was starred Buttafooco was unstarred
    Image of Mediahohoho Mediahohoho
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    It's okay. She actually knows how to make fossil fuels.
     Reply
    Mediahohoho was starred Mediahohoho was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    11/30/09

    @Mediahohoho: She also knows how to solve the world's most vexing economic problem. How do we pay for the deficit? Easy! We cut the taxes on the small business owners who are creating the wealth, who should keep the wealth that they created, because that's their wealth, and if they could keep it we could pay the debts and create the jobs and the people could work, because they are the ones that create the jobs that America and the Troops and Jesus think we deserve because we're the best country ever. Damn, it's so simple it's brilliant. When she's right, she's right. If only Republicans had thought to cut taxes for the past 30 years! Geez, they must feel like real simpletons now that she's pinpointed the problem and the solution in such an informed and incisive manner. I think I may vote for her in 2012. Cutting taxes to reduce the deficit! Who'd a thunk it?
     Reply
    Mediahohoho promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of Mediahohoho Mediahohoho
    11/30/09

    @ParahSalin: Funny thing about Republicans. Neither my taxes nor spending ever go down when they're in office. Things just get shitty and mean. She's perfect for that party.
     Reply
    Mediahohoho was starred Mediahohoho was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    12/01/09

    @Mediahohoho: My taxes do go down when Republicans are in office, but mainly because I never can find a job when they're in control. It's fairly hard to tax me when I have no income. In your face Republicans! I'm broke, nothing left for you to take. Wow, that doesn't really feel as good as I thought it would.
     Reply
    ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    Presumably the only thing that can shake her followers' faith in her would be proof that she fathered a black child.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    11/30/09

    @TheBusinessGuy: In the old days a divorce would have done her in. The Christians used to shun the divorced, but after stoning Anita Bryant in the 1980's they realized that most of their fellow travelers were divorcing in droves. Then they switched to blaming working mothers for society's ills in the 1990s. Then they realized their base consisted of a lot of working women. Now they're down to having nobody to hate but the race traitors (like McCain and his biracial illegitimate child), fetus killers and the homos. I guess if she declared her love for another woman or admitted she'd had an abortion in high school, that might also disillusion a few of them.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of belltolls belltolls
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    When was she in Orlando?
     Reply
    belltolls was starred belltolls was unstarred
    Image of SanFranLefty SanFranLefty
    11/30/09

    @belltolls: Tiger wouldn't sink that low.
     Reply
    SanFranLefty was starred SanFranLefty was unstarred
    Image of Trai_Dep Trai_Dep
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    I guess Sarah doesn't trust her daughters enough to let them ride in the bus while she Gulfstreams about.
    ...Why does she hate having more grandchildren so much?
     Reply
    Trai_Dep was starred Trai_Dep was unstarred
    Image of twoeightnine twoeightnine
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    Here's the plane: [flightaware.com]
     Reply
    twoeightnine was starred twoeightnine was unstarred
    Image of The Real JR The Real JR
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    My only warm thoughts is that this will go the way of many in the music industry who are so completely ignorant of how the payment structure works that they blow their monies on gold chains and music videos not knowing that everything they rack up is absolutely being taken out of their check.

    C'mon, who else was taught Music Industry Finance from Left Eye on the TLC Behind the Music?

    In short, she's blowing her money on tricked out buses and planes on standby for $4K/hour. She probably doesn't know that all of this isn't gratis, she has to end up paying for it out of her royalities. She's going to end up in the hole after all this and then start crying sexism or something because she didn't understand how money and contracts work.
     Reply
    The Real JR was starred The Real JR was unstarred
    Image of Rozelle’s Bagman Rozelle’s Bagman
    11/30/09

    @The Real JR: But at least she has a Go To Colleges for Free clause.
     Reply
    Rozelle’s Bagman was starred Rozelle’s Bagman was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    No disrespect to Mr. Mc Ginnis, but the Crooks & Liars blog had this well-covered on Friday: [videocafe.crooksandliars.com]
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of Island of Misfit Toys Island of Misfit Toys
    11/30/09

    @Lysergic Asset: Did they post it under the Crook or Liar section?
     Reply
    Island of Misfit Toys was starred Island of Misfit Toys was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    11/30/09

    @Island of Misfit Toys: Ha! - Pretty much the whole blog covers both: the terms have become interchangeable.
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of OHymenMyHymen OHymenMyHymen
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    The reason I can tolerate Sarah Palin, instead of fearing her, is because she is dumber than a bag of retarded hammers. While this doesn't preclude 35% of the country from voting for her, it should be enough to keep her out of office, making this prime entertainment material.

    (Please, God, please.)
     Reply
    OHymenMyHymen was starred OHymenMyHymen was unstarred
    Image of gawkimo gawkimo
    11/30/09

    @OHymenMyHymen: How's this sound: Romney/Palin 2012 ticket during a campaign run with 9% unemployment and a protracted conflict in Afghanistan.

    In that case she would become Veep.
     Reply
    gawkimo was starred gawkimo was unstarred
    Image of twoeightnine twoeightnine
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    I'm surprised that this hasn't been reported already. I noticed it last week when she was coming to Rochester. A newspaper article said that they had chosen a Borders specifically because it was close to the airport.
     Reply
    twoeightnine was starred twoeightnine was unstarred
    Image of Rozelle’s Bagman Rozelle’s Bagman
    11/30/09

    @twoeightnine: It's a MSM coverup, ldo
     Reply
    Rozelle’s Bagman was starred Rozelle’s Bagman was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    Palin is her own worst enemy. None of the stuff her naysayers could say about her can trump the lies and P.R. gaffs that Palin herself makes.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of Botswana Meat Commission FC Botswana Meat Commission FC
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    FlightAware is your friend! All you need is a tail number.

    [flightaware.com]
     Reply
    Botswana Meat Commission FC was starred Botswana Meat Commission FC was unstarred
    Image of blix blix
    11/30/09

    @Botswana Meat Commission FC: Servicey, thanks!
     Reply
    blix was starred blix was unstarred
    Image of twoeightnine twoeightnine
    11/30/09

    @Botswana Meat Commission FC: [flightaware.com]
     Reply
    twoeightnine was starred twoeightnine was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    11/30/09

    In reply to Palin Not Actually Taking Tacky Bus on Tacky Book Tour
    Didn't John Sidney McCain III do that, too?

    Oh, no, wait, that was Fred Thompson
    with his fake little red pickup truck that he pretended to drive

    [www.washingtonmonthly.com]

    Not only was the truck rented, but Thompson didn't even deign to drive the thing himself. . . . Basically, he just drove the thing the final few hundred feet before each campaign event, and then ditched it for something nicer as soon as he was out of sight of the yokels. Quite a man of the people, no?
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of 7states 7states
    11/30/09

    @If_I_Had_a_Poodle: Fred Thompson was amazing. I knew he would only be in the primary for 10 minutes, and I enjoyed every one of them.
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle promoted this comment 7states was starred 7states was unstarred
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