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Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
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miss_msry
07/16/09

In reply to Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
It's like having to choose between Marbury and Madison.
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gawkimo
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
I'm conflicted on this issue. After all, this website ids a perfect example of how the "blogosphere" depends on people being paid real money to do journalism.

Information may "yearn to be free" but like everything else: you get what you pay for.

Governments, third world despots, corporations and criminals would enjoy seeing journalism be destroyed and replaced with blogging.

There's a big difference between having a foreign correspondent cover African affairs and having Xeni Jardin tell you what she did on her African vacation.
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sample032
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
One part I hate is the bias it's introduced. It very clearly exists and Gawker, but there's a better example: reddit. Those people vote for stories they wish were true without clicking through to sources to make sure they are. This shouldn't be a big deal, but a few times per week, a followup to a story shows up, but it doesn't even get as many votes as the original.

Reddit has made me believe that whatever news you want to read is out there, given sufficient editing.
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Maura Johnston
04/10/09

@sample032: digg, too.
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Hamilton Nolan
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
Saying "the internet" "hurts journalism" presupposes some weird world where journalism-- a practice-- cannot take place on the internet-- a medium. Yes, it's fucking up old, pre-internet business models and we're currently in a period of upheaval. This will work itself out. But saying that the ability for anyone, anywhere, to instantly publish work worldwide at no cost, and have 1000 libraries worth of information at their fingertips anywhere at any time, and be able to contact virtually anyone anywhere instantly, "hurts journalism," is fundamentally ludicrous.
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
04/10/09

@Hamilton Nolan:

So is that yes or no? We're all Manicheans now.
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MisterHippity
04/10/09

@Hamilton Nolan: Ok, when you put it that way, I don't disagree with you. But I interpreted the question somewhat differently.

I guess it just goes back to what saythatscool pointed out: The question is too vague, and different people are interpreting it to mean slightly different things.

So you you see this as a "period of upheaval" that will "work itself out." I'll buy that. But it'd better work itself out quickly or we'll lose a lot of valuable information ... the hard, high-value kind of information that you have to pay lots of talented reporters to produce.

Also, you'll have to forgive me for being somewhat skeptical when I hear about "old, pre-internet business models." I lived through the dot-com bubble 10 years ago when people talked like that. Then we all found out that those "old business models" never really changed after all. The web was just a new medium for the old models. That's how I view the current situation.
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Hamilton Nolan
04/10/09

@MisterHippity: Newspapers are a pre-internet business model, by definition, and they didn't adapt particularly well or quickly enough. Doesn't meant they'll die or anything, that's just how it is. Now they're somewhat screwed. The situation in the various journalism industries right now is kinda like a war: lots of people dying and getting killed and destruction and it will suck, probably for several years more at least, but in the end a new model for journalism will emerge, and it will be better than the old model of a small number of gatekeepers, and there you go. Nobody's guaranteed to live. That's just reality.
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PaisleyPajamas
04/10/09

@Hamilton Nolan: I agree with you, Hamilton. I think that the pressure put on mainstream media by the work done on the internet has cast a garrish light on the fact that journalism has been lacking for a while, that choices were predetermined and it was a one-way street with no passing lane. It has to be a bitter pill to swallow for a 20- or 30-year veteran journo to find himself under fire for his work in the comments section of an online outlet, rather than neatly packaged "Letters to the Editor."

I find myself unable to watch the evening news anymore because it is a "snippit" version of what I've dug out for myself on the internet all day, at whim and on my terms.
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Aaron Altman
04/10/09

@Hamilton Nolan: Hamilton - are there any particular newspapers that you would cite as having adapted to that "new model for journalism"? I'd argue that the New York Times is steps ahead of adapting - they just need to start charging for content again, natch - and the Wall Street Journal too.
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Carol Gardens
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
Yes, well, where did you get the idea for this thread? From the friggin' Atlantic!
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MisterHippity
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
I love you, Hamilton, but I have to agree with the "hurts journalism" people here. Also I agree 100% the "sample answer" you quoted.

I don't see that view as an attack on blogs or the internet ... it's just reality. It's not the fault of any one devil; the Internet happened, and the result was bad for professional journalists. I think that's pretty obvious when newpapers and magazines are folding under left and right, and more and more professional writers are landing on the unemployment lines. It isn't just the economy: Too much news can now be consumed for free on the Web, which is taking away revenue from the people who hire the journalists.

That seems fairly obvious to me. I don't know why so many people are fighting so hard to deny this reality.

It's a problem that needs to be solved: In the web era, how can we to monetize journalism again so that good, extensive news-gather organizations can funded? If we don't come up with a good answer, everyone (including blogs) will suffer.
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
04/10/09

@MisterHippity:

I agree 100%. I don't care about newspapers. I care about news.

I work in a suburban Atlanta county that these days gets maybeone or two stories each day in the AJC. This is a county with almost 800,000 residents. It would be something like the 17th largest city in the U.S. Do people realize just how much public officials and private business will be able to get away with when almost no resources are devoted to original reporting on what's going on here?

I almost think there should be some kind of nationwide general strike by journalists. Just suddenly cease all reporting, editing and photojournalism activities for a few months and see if that spurs new online monetization schemes.
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PaisleyPajamas
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
News consumption depends on news production...

I definitely feel the the cable news is "manufactured," lately. I'm reminded of when the last hurricane aimed at the Texas coastline was so "ultra covered" by the news outlet that a train crash with fatalities in Los Angeles went grossly under reported (save for the local affiliates). The irony in all of this is how much of the blogosphere is now incorporated into mainstream media--blogs being cited as legit sources.

What's ticking off the "old school journalists" is the immediacy of the internet that they just can't compete with AND the anonymity.
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allyzay
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
the sample quote you pulled is bad because he's right -- it doesn't help your argument at all. the question is, can both of these live in conjunction with each other (can print journalists move to the online world and still produce in the same fashion they currently produce? i say yes -- not everything has to be updated 24/7), or are journalists going to refuse to play nice with the online world? if a site like this hurts serious journalists, and they just GO AWAY instead of adapting, then sites like this will die too.

but that question is a little too complicated for a y/n poll i guess probably!! tucker carlson had some really interesting 12 page think piece he was working on.
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El Matardillo
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
I'm guessing that a large percentage of the people who click "yes" are somehow involved in journalism. Suck it, journalists! The internet is here to stay. If you want to start pulling on a series of tubes, I'm sure New York has any number of options for you.
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saythatscool
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
*you

damn edit button
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saythatscool
04/10/09

In reply to Does The Internet 'Hurt Journalism?'
What does that question even mean? Are referring to journalism as a profession or an abstract concept of reportage on current events?

That question is so vague, it's pointless.
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TableNine
04/10/09

@saythatscool: I shouted the exact same thing at my newspaper this morning.
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saythatscool
04/10/09

@TableNine: Excuse me sir, I'm taking a poll. Do you think the internet is good or bad?
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TableNine
04/10/09

@saythatscool: Can I pick "C"? I think it's a series of tubes.
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saythatscool
04/10/09

@TableNine: Correct!
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HiredGoons
03/05/09

In reply to Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
It's like having to choose between a used tampon and a used condom.
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KarenUhOh
03/05/09

In reply to Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
The tension here is almost as thick as when Pussy Galore drew the short tampon and had to choose between Matt Helm and Derek Flint.
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Pop Socket
03/05/09

In reply to Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
Which one gets more tail? Because that will affect my choice.
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RonMwangaguhunga
03/05/09

In reply to Would You Rather Be Graydon Carter or Kurt Andersen?
Why do we have to be one or the other? That's so Kierkegaardian, and Michael Hirschorn reads Nabokov. Why not go the Hirschorn route -- Atlantic contributing editor and former TV executive and founder of the TV production company. TV is so much cooler than EITHER public radio OR the magazine industry, and the gravitas of The Atlantic washes away some of the meh of reality tv.
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