Can someone please explain RICO and what it has to do with Vick's case to the black people in this thread? I'm too exhausted from being witness to their stark ignorance to bother.
And he's got his original job back, playing football. Doesn't mean he should get a show too.
I guess I'm stating something obvious to everyone else here, but he's getting a show BECAUSE of the dogfighting, or at least, his being caught, and I think that's f*cked up and trashy, but we're talking about it, which is what BET wants. He got caught, couldn't pay someone (a rape victim, a girlfriend or mistress, etc.) off, and got face time in the media. Plus this case is juicy because of the bullshit idea floating around that dogfighting is okay because the only foundation for disgust is elitist, racist valuing of animals over people.
I wasn't aware being disturbed by animal torture (even if you don't give a shit about pets) is just white peevishness. Or that people can only take offense at violence or abuse of one's wealth/fame against animals OR humans, but not both. Kind of undermines the blogosphere's love of Chris Rock after that stuff he said on Jay Leno. Like someone else on this board, he compared the Vick case to the Polanski case. And like plenty of other fucking idiots (and I LIKE Chris Rock's stand-up), in the interview he referred to the Polanski case as "sex with a thirteen year-old" and made the argument that if it's rape, it's because of the victim's age. Even the celebrities who WILL criticize Polanski only seem to note that it's rape because the victim was thirteen, NOT because the asshole forced himself on someone telling him to stop. God help us, the opponents of Polanski are as stupid as the defenders, because they're obsessed with the age of the victim, not the coercion, making me wonder if any of these famous assholes would sense something amiss if Polanski's victim had been 18.
Regarding the extent of Michael Vick coverage--didn't his case break during summer, making it more likely the media would yammer on about this?
I will say I'm kind of confused; celebrities are no longer default role models, correct? I guess that doesn't matter--they're "role models" because they're paid millions of dollars and people see them as entertainers, if not templates for a successful, decent life. I'm all for holding other athletes to the same standards of public indignation as Vick. The problem is, those "other" athletes can settle with their victims in court or skewer their reputations. Of course dog fighting isn't worse than rape, but unlike human victims, dogs can't attempt to seek justice for themselves. (Though I realize the penalties for pressing charges against some powerful can be lethal too, unless you have a spotless history or hard evidence, so why NOT just demand a settlement?)
Surprised no one has brought up corporate farming to fend off the criticism of this show ("if you eat meat, you shouldn't give a shit that Michael Vick participated in dog-fighting but is rich again").
@maude_flanders: Yup.
While "he served his time" means we should charitably allow him to rejoin society relatively unmolested, there's no right to a NFL contract, with all the lush benefits that accrue.
The NFL and BET embracing him with warm arms and murmurs of encouragement is the true crime that irks most of the people that loathe Vick and what he stands for.
If he received the same treatment that a Dan White or one of many boy-diddling Republican pols (being made to sink into an ignored, faded ignominy), there'd be much less ire.
And for that, Vick, BET and the NFL are all co-conspirators.
@Trai_Dep: Dan White and the boy-diddling Republicans committed crimes against people. Dogs are not people, contrary to what many, mostly white (yes I said it) people think. You can dress them up, get medical insurance for them, and call them 'your baby' but that doesn't change the fact that dogs are animals and in the eyes of the law and the rest of the world, a crime against an animal is not as serious as a crime against a human being. The repeated calls for Vick's death or mutilation reveal that there are a lot of folks who are just as sick as Mr. Vick is accused of being.
Cruelty to animals is horrible and thankfully illegal. Michael Vick was punished and put in jail. He served the time a judge and jury sentenced him with. He doesn't owe anybody a damn thing.
@Trai_Dep: Oh and Dan White basically got away with the murder of two human beings and was allowed to fade away because there wasn't as much outrage about the assassinations of Moscone and Milk as there has been about these dogs.
Vick is a shitbag and anyone who thinks he's "served his time" and should be allowed to port about making millions is a deluded fool.
Find a non-celebrity felon convicted of a violent crime and ask him if he's been able to get a job at all, never mind two highly overpaid ones.
Vick should only be on television greased up with animal fat and thrown into a pen filled with starved, abused, aggressive dogs.
That I would watch.
Calling out a "docu-series" as a "an autobiographical attempt to revamp Vick's image" is just hater spin. And why is the (White) Media picking him as the poster boy for all the wrongs of rich, spoiled athletes...as opposed to say Donte Stallworth, who has to sit out the 2009 season to prepare for doing a whole 30 days for a DWI homicide. Is Vick worse than him? What about the 73 other current NFL players with DWIs? At least the NFL punished Vick on top of his prison sentence; when Phillies pitcher Bret Myers beat up his wife in the middle of the street last year, MLB didn't do a thing...and Myers was the Phillies opening day pitcher this season.
And: maybe this "docu-series" will actually shed some light on how and why Vick came to think running a dog fighting ring was a fine idea....
@SuchAndSuch: You know what, I'll partially agree with you here. I do think it's miserable, pathetic and shameful that our national athletes' tendencies to break the law and do horrible things tends to take a back seat to our willingness to pay them millions of dollars. You got me there. However, that doesn't really justify your, "Well, but other athletes are shitbags too!"
As far as I'm concerned, being convicted of a felony crime (particularly a violent crime, like dog fighting or spouse beating) should drastically reduce your opportunities to make millions of dollars. But, for normal non-celebrity or non-athlete people, it only drastically reduces your ability to make thousands of dollars.
As far as Vick's reasons go, I don't really care. I suspect it had an awful lot to do with money. Does it really matter?
@vizualizewhirledpeas: THANK YOU! The last time I checked Michael Vick had served his time and paid his debt to society. He killed some ANIMALS folks. Every weekend thousands of people go into the forests and do the same damn thing. You can even watch it on TV. Michael Vick's biggest mistake appears to be not having enough sense to go out a rape a little girl.
You know what sucks? The whole fact that, had he NOT been such a royal piece of shit dog-killer, he would just be another football player who (most likely) would never get such a deal.
What a messed up world we're living in, eh?
The woman did realize that she was speaking to a child, right? As soon as Damon mentioned Michael Vick, she VISIBLY got on her high horse. Hey lady, maybe the kid does think Vick is a role model. You know the whole make a mistake, do your time and pay your debt to society and try and live a a better life. It's a shame Vick didn't rape someone; he would have gotten far less aggro.
@1.1.1.: The first question, maybe; the last one was obnoxious. In fact, she's pretty obnoxious straight through. She's the kind of adult whose voice gets all high-pitched and stupid when talking to a perfectly intelligent child who doesn't need or deserve any such condescending to.
@MissNormaDesmond: Trying not to shift into child-directed speech is one of the most insanely difficult things to do, though. As a teacher, especially, you want to treat children like competent human beings, but something in your brain tells you that your words won't get across to them if you don't sound like a cartoon character.
@croush1211: I agree that you might want to lay off the five dollar words while speaking to a child, but the cartoonish, bouncy-bouncy tone and cackling at every aren't-you-adorable phrase is wholly unnecessary. She obviously is just awkward around kids and every adult viewer suffered because of it.
I can understand the uncertainty of interacting with children when you're unfamiliar with the practice; however, as someone who is not, I can tell you that it's perfectly ok to speak to a child in a normal speech pattern. In fact, they seem to respond better when you do.
@aLostLady: As a child my parents were normal human beings who spoke to me in normal adult voices. I remember at age six I met the first adult who ever talked to children in That Voice, and after overcoming initial confusion, and then revulsion, I quietly walked away from this person. I think in my head I karate chopped them in half. Watch his eyes, and you can see his mind make the same thought.
@croush1211: I deal with kids a lot. It's about reaching them at their level, rather than talking down to them. I love and honor teachers, and I don't mean to be disrespectful to you, but if you have a hard time differentiating between those two things, especially with children Weaver's age, you might want to get some coaching on it, because it's pretty important.
I think you are misunderstanding the kid's "ummm no" response. I think he was confused by the reporter's follow up question about Vick being a bad role model. It appears that his "ummm no" is just an affirmation that he himself does not believe Vick is a good role model. You're giving him too much credit: the kid doesn't seem like enough of a smart ass to shut her down with sarcasm.
Give him a few years though. He'll be rolling his eyes and talking shit with the best of 'tweens. As for now, I don't see anything exceptional about the kid.
@boozehound: Yeah; because the kid's a newsie and Vick's only been in the news for the dogs and their effect on his former career--to say he wanted to ask Vick about being "traded to the Eagles" was a little off center and deserved a follow-up.
Also, he IS just a kid; his comment about the pres being "very tall" shows that. I agree that the headline and the write-up don't really match the video's content.
Not sure I agree with you there Foster - she asked who he wanted to interview next, he said football players, she asked who, and he reeled off a few names, including Vick, which obviously stuck out. It was the logical next question, to ask about him - and she was right to assume that he knew about Vick's "other" side since he immediately answered about him going to the Eagles. There may not have been a need for the moralizing sum-up she gave, but it was hardly putting him on the spot to ask him a follow-up of that nature. It's not like she asked him talk about health care.
And don't worry - Damon Weaver will never have a Mediaite ranking that's more inflated than yours!
@RachelSklar: You're like Dan Abrams' Bloody Mary. Say thy sacred URL and you appear behind me with a four point critique. It's Saturday! WHY ARE YOU HERE?
@RachelSklar: "Oh that's it? What about his past."
*pause*
"Why were you fighting the dogs?" the kid says, with a world-weary attitude that belies his 11-year old status.
"That's right" says newsslut, with the self-righteousness that only a lifetime of attractive whiteness and college education can grant her.
@Foster Kamer: Foster! I read Gawker on the weekends, duh. And I love Damon Weaver, who doesn't? Wrote about him myself. I couldn't possible respond to every Mediaite potshot you take, though I do try to respond when I find you lurking in our comments section...Office Hours too! You're our most dedicated reader! And to @Pope John Peeps II: While I agree that O'Donnell's tone was unnecessarily condescending - the "kid" voice wasn't needed - calling her a "newsslut" is pretty repugnant.
And Steve Nash is Canadian, yes. But I was going after Foster, not Damon.
@Foster Kamer: Does the juxtaposition of the star and the coarse and idiotic statement make this obviously sarcastic enough? Or does this just come across as rude without comedic intention.
@Chris Hanson's Axe: No, you're fine. We got it. Or I did. I laughed heartily. Calling kids fucking idiots + Well, it's true. + Starred, he obviously did something right, must be in on the joke = Well played
10/08/09
10/10/09
10/08/09
And he's got his original job back, playing football. Doesn't mean he should get a show too.
I guess I'm stating something obvious to everyone else here, but he's getting a show BECAUSE of the dogfighting, or at least, his being caught, and I think that's f*cked up and trashy, but we're talking about it, which is what BET wants. He got caught, couldn't pay someone (a rape victim, a girlfriend or mistress, etc.) off, and got face time in the media. Plus this case is juicy because of the bullshit idea floating around that dogfighting is okay because the only foundation for disgust is elitist, racist valuing of animals over people.
I wasn't aware being disturbed by animal torture (even if you don't give a shit about pets) is just white peevishness. Or that people can only take offense at violence or abuse of one's wealth/fame against animals OR humans, but not both. Kind of undermines the blogosphere's love of Chris Rock after that stuff he said on Jay Leno. Like someone else on this board, he compared the Vick case to the Polanski case. And like plenty of other fucking idiots (and I LIKE Chris Rock's stand-up), in the interview he referred to the Polanski case as "sex with a thirteen year-old" and made the argument that if it's rape, it's because of the victim's age. Even the celebrities who WILL criticize Polanski only seem to note that it's rape because the victim was thirteen, NOT because the asshole forced himself on someone telling him to stop. God help us, the opponents of Polanski are as stupid as the defenders, because they're obsessed with the age of the victim, not the coercion, making me wonder if any of these famous assholes would sense something amiss if Polanski's victim had been 18.
Regarding the extent of Michael Vick coverage--didn't his case break during summer, making it more likely the media would yammer on about this?
I will say I'm kind of confused; celebrities are no longer default role models, correct? I guess that doesn't matter--they're "role models" because they're paid millions of dollars and people see them as entertainers, if not templates for a successful, decent life. I'm all for holding other athletes to the same standards of public indignation as Vick. The problem is, those "other" athletes can settle with their victims in court or skewer their reputations. Of course dog fighting isn't worse than rape, but unlike human victims, dogs can't attempt to seek justice for themselves. (Though I realize the penalties for pressing charges against some powerful can be lethal too, unless you have a spotless history or hard evidence, so why NOT just demand a settlement?)
Surprised no one has brought up corporate farming to fend off the criticism of this show ("if you eat meat, you shouldn't give a shit that Michael Vick participated in dog-fighting but is rich again").
10/08/09
While "he served his time" means we should charitably allow him to rejoin society relatively unmolested, there's no right to a NFL contract, with all the lush benefits that accrue.
The NFL and BET embracing him with warm arms and murmurs of encouragement is the true crime that irks most of the people that loathe Vick and what he stands for.
If he received the same treatment that a Dan White or one of many boy-diddling Republican pols (being made to sink into an ignored, faded ignominy), there'd be much less ire.
And for that, Vick, BET and the NFL are all co-conspirators.
10/08/09
Cruelty to animals is horrible and thankfully illegal. Michael Vick was punished and put in jail. He served the time a judge and jury sentenced him with. He doesn't owe anybody a damn thing.
10/08/09
10/08/09
Find a non-celebrity felon convicted of a violent crime and ask him if he's been able to get a job at all, never mind two highly overpaid ones.
Vick should only be on television greased up with animal fat and thrown into a pen filled with starved, abused, aggressive dogs.
That I would watch.
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
And: maybe this "docu-series" will actually shed some light on how and why Vick came to think running a dog fighting ring was a fine idea....
10/08/09
As far as I'm concerned, being convicted of a felony crime (particularly a violent crime, like dog fighting or spouse beating) should drastically reduce your opportunities to make millions of dollars. But, for normal non-celebrity or non-athlete people, it only drastically reduces your ability to make thousands of dollars.
As far as Vick's reasons go, I don't really care. I suspect it had an awful lot to do with money. Does it really matter?
10/08/09
sorry, wrong thread.
10/08/09
10/08/09
10/08/09
What a messed up world we're living in, eh?
10/08/09
10/08/09
08/23/09
08/23/09
Who are you?
What have you done to distinguish yourself?
I mean, you're so non-descript that your name doesn't even appear in a Gawker post about this bit of puffery.
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
Shut it, lady. No one deserves that kind of needless guffawing.
08/22/09
I can understand the uncertainty of interacting with children when you're unfamiliar with the practice; however, as someone who is not, I can tell you that it's perfectly ok to speak to a child in a normal speech pattern. In fact, they seem to respond better when you do.
08/23/09
08/23/09
08/22/09
Give him a few years though. He'll be rolling his eyes and talking shit with the best of 'tweens. As for now, I don't see anything exceptional about the kid.
08/22/09
Also, he IS just a kid; his comment about the pres being "very tall" shows that. I agree that the headline and the write-up don't really match the video's content.
08/22/09
And don't worry - Damon Weaver will never have a Mediaite ranking that's more inflated than yours!
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
*pause*
"Why were you fighting the dogs?" the kid says, with a world-weary attitude that belies his 11-year old status.
"That's right" says newsslut, with the self-righteousness that only a lifetime of attractive whiteness and college education can grant her.
08/22/09
And Steve Nash is Canadian, yes. But I was going after Foster, not Damon.
xoxo!
08/22/09
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08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
08/22/09
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