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New York, 10:02 PM
Mon Dec 7
48 posts in the last 24 hours
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09:47 AM
05:51 AM
Um, OK. Still, I eat the occasional steak and I think people who take pleasure in the choice of fighting, torturing and killing dogs are sick individuals.
I do not think people who work at meat factories, or people who eat pork chops, are working at the same level of individual mental depravity.
12:32 PM
12/06/09
As for Vick. I am the biggest dog lover on the face of the earth. However. He served his time. It's time to let him move on. Flame away on me, but I believe in justice being served and the ability to return to society hopefully rehabilitated.
12:59 AM
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01:40 AM
Once again, you're absolutely right. Only an irrational person would condemn the abuse of a dozen or so dogs while condoning the abuse of hundreds of millions of other mammals, birds, and fish.
I would just add that only an irrational person would say that the abuse of hundreds of millions of animals is no reason to "stop eating meat," especially in light of the facts that (a) production of meat is grossly energy inefficient (meaning that it takes far more energy to produce a given quantity of meat than you get out that same amount); (b) in the West, at least, consumption of meat is unnecessary for the maintenance of human health (and is actually detrimental to it, especially when you consider that subsidies to industrial farmers directly result in unhealthy foods being cheaper and more readily available than healthful ones), and the only justification for it is the pleasure it affords the humans involved (not unlike dogfighting!); (c) sewage runoffs from factory farming destroy the environment; and (d) humane production of meat is viable.
As for something else that shouldn't be "gloss[ed] over"--many hunters and fishermen "kill[] . . . [expressly] for sport," and sometimes for the very doglike wolf! Gasp!
01:51 AM
Given the fact that people still consume meat for nutrition and that this isn't going to change any time soon, I think we have to admit (not sarcastically!) that there's a difference between killing animals--in a debatably torturous way--not because one personally derives great pleasure from torturing animals, but because one seeks to make meat available in the market on a large, profitable scale ... and a dude who held dogfights and killed dogs brutally on his property for sport.
And bringing up hunting means nothing to me. I'm against hunting, personally, because I'm against people owning guns. I'd love it if there were no more hunters in America.
02:39 AM
No one "consume[s] meat for nutrition." They eat it for taste. You can get the same nutrition from non-animal sources that you can from meat. Hundreds of millions--if not billions--of vegetarians and vegans the world over do every day.
Ultimately, all the suffering of both factory-farmed animals and Vick's dogs is for naught but human pleasure (including the pleasure of profiteering). And since hundreds of millions more animals suffer so that some of us can ENJOY a hamburger or a fatter bank account than so Vick could enjoy his dogfights, he's no more guilty than any meat-eater. (Well, maybe a little more, because I'm sure he's no vegan. But he shouldn't lose his livelihood or have to do prison time because he hurt a few more animals than the rest of us do.)
Incidentally, it's funny that you can instantly envision an America without guns, but have such trouble envisioning an America without factory farms.
Anyway, I'm in no way advocating cruelty toward animals. I'm just saying that it's absurd to condemn Vick while making excuses for factory farmers and their clientele.
11:36 AM
08:05 PM
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Ultimately, I think it comes down to "the love of money is the root of all evil" and "power corrupts."
12/06/09
Calling a dumbass black man who participated in a grotesque TRADITIONAL sport "sub-human" is fucking with me.
If you think am being sensitive, re-read it from where I'm sitting.
12/06/09
12/06/09
Slavery used to be traditional. So was genocide.
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12:23 AM
01:01 AM
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01:10 AM
#tips
01:11 AM
#tips
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01:38 AM
12:06 PM
Regarding the origin of this contentious phrase, there would have been no distinction between "half black" and "all black" - we would have all been characterized this way.
I understand why you are offended. All I can ask is that you forgive my idealism. My love for animals trumped my sociological common sense here.
12:47 PM
07:32 PM
Again, what he did to his dogs was particularly cruel (even to people who fight dogs).
07:33 PM
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08:02 PM
I would also like to hear any ideas you have about making the issue of animal abuse in urban (read: non-rich, non-white) communities more known, because the whole thing is just a tragedy. Way of the world?
12/06/09
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12/06/09
And maybe it could've been more direct, I guess, had I gone with the cattle prod, but I wanted to reserve at least a semblance of subtlety.
12/06/09
12/06/09
And yes, this is an unwise comment to make on a website, which I understand. But I've not seen you make a single cogent, reasonable argument for, well, whatever the fuck you are arguing for.
12/06/09
12/06/09
But making ridiculous, fact-less statements and falling back to smug, nonsensical hyperbole makes me
A: Doubt the person's conviction
B: Doubt the person's ability to reasonably discourse.
Which, in turn, makes me post long diatribes mocking the person in question.
12/06/09
The Twilight Zone theme song was for your continued efforts at dialogue with topsy, obvs.
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He electrocuted many dogs and threw them into swimming pools, had their teeth removed so they were forcibly bred or used as bait fighters, viciously tortured them and killed them in hideous manners, all to make money (which he didn't need).
The two years he served in prison were for racketeering, not for his hideous acts against animals, so I call absolute bullshit on the 'time served' argument.
If he saved the world from nuclear annihilation, it would make up for what he did. Nothing else.
12/06/09
12/06/09
10/08/09
10/10/09
10/08/09
And he's got his original job back, playing football. Doesn't mean he should get a show too.
I guess I'm stating something obvious to everyone else here, but he's getting a show BECAUSE of the dogfighting, or at least, his being caught, and I think that's f*cked up and trashy, but we're talking about it, which is what BET wants. He got caught, couldn't pay someone (a rape victim, a girlfriend or mistress, etc.) off, and got face time in the media. Plus this case is juicy because of the bullshit idea floating around that dogfighting is okay because the only foundation for disgust is elitist, racist valuing of animals over people.
I wasn't aware being disturbed by animal torture (even if you don't give a shit about pets) is just white peevishness. Or that people can only take offense at violence or abuse of one's wealth/fame against animals OR humans, but not both. Kind of undermines the blogosphere's love of Chris Rock after that stuff he said on Jay Leno. Like someone else on this board, he compared the Vick case to the Polanski case. And like plenty of other fucking idiots (and I LIKE Chris Rock's stand-up), in the interview he referred to the Polanski case as "sex with a thirteen year-old" and made the argument that if it's rape, it's because of the victim's age. Even the celebrities who WILL criticize Polanski only seem to note that it's rape because the victim was thirteen, NOT because the asshole forced himself on someone telling him to stop. God help us, the opponents of Polanski are as stupid as the defenders, because they're obsessed with the age of the victim, not the coercion, making me wonder if any of these famous assholes would sense something amiss if Polanski's victim had been 18.
Regarding the extent of Michael Vick coverage--didn't his case break during summer, making it more likely the media would yammer on about this?
I will say I'm kind of confused; celebrities are no longer default role models, correct? I guess that doesn't matter--they're "role models" because they're paid millions of dollars and people see them as entertainers, if not templates for a successful, decent life. I'm all for holding other athletes to the same standards of public indignation as Vick. The problem is, those "other" athletes can settle with their victims in court or skewer their reputations. Of course dog fighting isn't worse than rape, but unlike human victims, dogs can't attempt to seek justice for themselves. (Though I realize the penalties for pressing charges against some powerful can be lethal too, unless you have a spotless history or hard evidence, so why NOT just demand a settlement?)
Surprised no one has brought up corporate farming to fend off the criticism of this show ("if you eat meat, you shouldn't give a shit that Michael Vick participated in dog-fighting but is rich again").
10/08/09
While "he served his time" means we should charitably allow him to rejoin society relatively unmolested, there's no right to a NFL contract, with all the lush benefits that accrue.
The NFL and BET embracing him with warm arms and murmurs of encouragement is the true crime that irks most of the people that loathe Vick and what he stands for.
If he received the same treatment that a Dan White or one of many boy-diddling Republican pols (being made to sink into an ignored, faded ignominy), there'd be much less ire.
And for that, Vick, BET and the NFL are all co-conspirators.
10/08/09
Cruelty to animals is horrible and thankfully illegal. Michael Vick was punished and put in jail. He served the time a judge and jury sentenced him with. He doesn't owe anybody a damn thing.
10/08/09
10/08/09
Find a non-celebrity felon convicted of a violent crime and ask him if he's been able to get a job at all, never mind two highly overpaid ones.
Vick should only be on television greased up with animal fat and thrown into a pen filled with starved, abused, aggressive dogs.
That I would watch.
10/08/09