They shouldn't get to keep any money from this--it should go to pay back all the resources used to extricate them from their own stupidity, and then the rest should be divided amongst all of us who had to listen to all the BS about them and by them while waiting for the weather report or some other far more important bit of news. They should also have to go do some anonymous community service while meditating on their unsuitability as "reporters." #eunalee
@Novaload: No kidding. For months, they denied crossing the border. When they were freed, they used euphemisms like "touched the border". You can't be a little bit pregnant. You broke the law. Live with it. #eunalee
@Novaload: And what were the people these lovely ladies were 'reporting" on going to do when the story ran?
I'm sure Harriet Tubman would have loved to read media accounts of her railroad while she was still shuttling people through it... #eunalee
@OldSpinDoc: Indeed. The local 'contacts' were reportedly begging them not to go further toward the border; and their translator and others said the Korean equivalent of Sod it! and vanished--all concerned for their safety after the Clueless Chicks 15 minutes were over. The Clueless Chicks were not, of course, concerned about them. #eunalee
It was strange during their imprisonment how they would flash her picture on the news and it's always that weird myspace-y picture. I mean, couldn't the family provide a more normal picture? #eunalee
because you are not as interesting as your circumstances, no matter what Oprah says.
PREACH!!! PREACH IT!!
I think this simple truth is at the very core of why Gawker exists: Because some people take themselves way too seriously (ie: famous for doing nothing) which make them ripe for the snarking.
Dudes, doesn't the Lings realize that there's a HUGE fascination regarding what the hell is going on behind borders in North Korea. (Hell, wasn't that why they were there to begin with?) Why do I care about the beauty of Ling Sisterhood(tm) when i could get a firsthand account of Dear Leader battshittery with bonus Clinton on Air Fuck One action? #eunalee
@rudi_freude:
While a variation on the "Ya-Ya Sisterhood" (The Ling-Ling Sisterhood) could be mistaken for a film about Dick Nixon's relationship to a couple of pandas.
@skt.smth: While I'd usually be right there with you, I find "Much flurried" and "hastily took to flight" legitimately funny- this text isn't WRONG, or badly written(it's quite poetic!) like your run-of-the-mill easy-to-mock bad translation.
She's another one who got her noteriety by being a talking head during the OJ Simpson trial. She was actually a fairly decent back in the day, and then Fox gave her a contract, dye job and lots of plastic surgery.
Now she sucks ass. #foxnews
Laura Ling looks like she swallowed something bitter. Japanese plums?
The VICE crew went to the PRNK one year before, *with* permission and NK handlers, and were almost jailed for taking movies there. Google 'The Vice Guide to North Korea' and watch.
Oh, and even with permission and being guys they were scared shitless.
It's not like Current & Vice don't talk. The girls knew *exactly* what they were up against.
Where were the Chinese soldiers? On their side of no man's land. The 'girls' were still on Korean soil.
What point of view? The Current clubkids were trying to one up the Vice clubkids, using the PRNK as a prop.
Every time I see one of these clubkids go to a REALLY BAD SPOT in the world and then go 'Ima scared' into the camera I just roll my eyes.
I wish some of you guys would step off your high and mighty soap boxes and try to see this from their point of view. Their action may be stupid or reckless, but the fact of the matter is the punishment outweighs the crime. Everyone here can claim you would never put yourself in that situation. Maybe you will, maybe you won't but you were not there and you didn't experience it.
I also don't see the problem with Lisa Ling using every single person in her Rolodex to get her sister out of that crime syndicate of a country. It's her sister. Flesh and blood. You wouldn't have done the same? You would have had enough moral rage to declare that she did the crime and she shall do the time, and just leave her there to die?
What about the Iranian-American female journalist that was jailed in Iran for vague reasons? She lived and worked in Iran knowing full well the Iranian government has a hard-on for journalists and media types, and will incarcerate them any chance they get. Isn't that sort of asking for it as well?
When these ladies were still incarcerated in North Korea, the majority of the comments here were supportive of their release. All of a sudden now they're back on American soil, they have become ungrateful ingrates for trying to tell their stories? People begrudge them for trying to get a book deal or TV movie deal? Would you like to sit in solitary confinement in North Korea for a while with an uncertain future in exchange for possible book deal?
@Paul.B.Dodd: Indeed, there are male and female journalists who put themselves at risk while reporting, but the disapproving comments I have seen mostly address the perception of amateurism and privilege in the Ling-Lee affair, and amateurism and privilege are fair game in the Gawker world.
As for the harshness of their solitary confinement, it has been reported by "Han Park, an American academic who was visiting North Korea at the time, [that] they were housed in a guest villa designed for foreign visitors outside the capital of Pyongyang. Professor Park said that Korean officials laughed at any suggestion that the women were receiving harsh treatment. ‘We are not Guantanamo,’ he was told."
Again, it seems that Ling and Lee mishandled themselves, putting themselves, their handlers, and perhaps even the Korean underground railroad and its beneficiaries at risk.
@The Lone Scout: Whether or not they were ever in danger of hard labor is really easy for neutral outsiders to conjecture at this point. Hindsight is 20/20. When you're actually in that situation, even sitting in a guest house, 5000 miles away from home, how many of us has the fortitude to say, fuck it I'm going to get out of here sooner or later? I'm just going to enjoy this guest house. They broke the law but where is some decency and empathy? Do they just dissipate into thin air the minute they returned home?
@Paul.B.Dodd: Certainly, I would not want to be in their position, even if they were accommodated most comfortably, as claimed by an American visitor, in an official guest residence and allowed to communicate with their families, unlike other victims of the PRNK.
It will be interesting to see how the several arguments weaving through Gawker and Jezebel reconcile, if ever. (Man, I'm getting whiplash trying to keep up.) Were Ling and Lee dedicated journalists who took a calculated risk? Were they naive fameballs who stumbled into making themselves the story? Were they innocents manipulated into danger by their negligent bosses?
I seem to be stuck on simply expecting Ling and Lee to accept the consequences of their judgment and actions, and even to accept that in all ways they got off much better than the true victims of the story they went (or went sent) to get: The citizens of North Korea.
@The Lone Scout: It's possible their guide sold them out... even so, as @Paul.B.Dodd said, they broke the law. When you break the law, you get punished. And when you're dealing with a country as volatile as North Korea, you have to be extra careful not to break the law, particularly when it's unnecessarily.
@Experiment626: Yes, possibly their guide literally sold them out, or chickened out, or merely came to his senses. Paul.B.Dodd did agree with me that they broke the law, but I can't muster the same level of sympathy that he does, because I agree with your point: Don't visit the frontier of authoritarian regimes unless you are prepared to bear the consequences.
Here's another thing: I read that Euna Lee was born in South Korea and then moved to California as a university student. If that is true, how could she have grown up in the ROK and not known (and prepared better for) the dangers that she faced by merely being within sight of the PRNK border?
Again, I don't know how the National Geographic's guys pulled this off without making themselves the story. Seriously, read their article and look at thier photos. Were they not in the midst of it all? I believe it had to be professionalism and good planning that accounted for their success (and lack of capture), not luck.
@Paul.B.Dodd: I'm not going to fault older sis for doing what she did and how she did it. As an old Asia hand, I can tell you they did EXACTLY the right thing.
But equating what the clubkids *did* and their current [no pun intended] attitude *now*, all that's going to do is piss off elements in the PRNK to think they were punked by the Americans. Again.
They're coming off as ungrateful ingrates because they're not as 'really really really sorry that they did anything wrong' as they were before their release.
There's nothing wrong with getting a book deal or a movie [that will never be seen in the PRNK].
There *is* with going to the world press and saying 'Nuh-uh, we had backsies' (and that apology, you can shove it).
Dear clubkids. The fearless leader has a TV. He probably gets current now. And now the fugitive crossing issue is up on his radar.
Andrew, what's up with the new trend of narrowcasting at Gawker? I noticed separate postings for this topic (and, yesterday, SJP's filming of an SATC movie in Gotham) at the Gawker empire. I always thought it was more fun to get the Gawkers and Jezzies together in one big tent on subjects like this one.
In the meantime, I am going to keep beating the drum for the journalists over at National Geographic who successfully covered this story in depth without getting captured or putting the underground railroad there at jeopardy.
I'm calling bull on their description of events. The river in question clearly delineates the border between China and North Korea so they knew perfectly well they were crossing into North Korea and probably wanted film footage from North Korea to add some flair to their story.
I'm only angry cause a lot of people helping North Koreans were compromised in the process and these women show no remorse.
@Big Poppa: I'm with you there.
Also,here's a protip: You can't call backsies by running back over the border once you've crossed it. Violating another country's border doesn't work like that.
The tl;dr of this whole story is: Two stupid reporters do something stupid, don't want to admit it, beg for sympathy.
@Big Poppa: Notice how their version ignores the execs at Current who agreed to the story? And Euna Lee's strong faith, coupled with her Korean language skills, is why she decided to venture out of the edit bay. This version didn't clear up much.
Thing is? Well before Ling and Lee were arrested, National Geographic did a lengthy article with interviews, of North Korean refugees. All told in well written prose and accompanied by photographs and extensive maps and graphs.
So, this story was out there. Just this year. And it seems that they were able to do their work without getting operations shut down.
So perhaps, gonzo journalism didn't work all that well if they have undone years of work and put existing organizations and refugees families at risk. (The NGS story clearly indicates that often families are moved one at a time.)
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
I'm sure Harriet Tubman would have loved to read media accounts of her railroad while she was still shuttling people through it... #eunalee
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
11/13/09
PREACH!!! PREACH IT!!
I think this simple truth is at the very core of why Gawker exists: Because some people take themselves way too seriously (ie: famous for doing nothing) which make them ripe for the snarking.
Dudes, doesn't the Lings realize that there's a HUGE fascination regarding what the hell is going on behind borders in North Korea. (Hell, wasn't that why they were there to begin with?) Why do I care about the beauty of Ling Sisterhood(tm) when i could get a firsthand account of Dear Leader battshittery with bonus Clinton on Air Fuck One action? #eunalee
11/13/09
11/13/09
While a variation on the "Ya-Ya Sisterhood" (The Ling-Ling Sisterhood) could be mistaken for a film about Dick Nixon's relationship to a couple of pandas.
11/13/09
Wait, what? Did they capture Carrie Prejean now? #eunalee
11/13/09
11/13/09
China 0 #eunalee
11/10/09
11/10/09
Come on. You're better than this, Gawker. #northkorea
11/10/09
It's just deliciously archaic.
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/23/09
Now she sucks ass. #foxnews
10/23/09
09/03/09
Laura Ling looks like she swallowed something bitter. Japanese plums?
The VICE crew went to the PRNK one year before, *with* permission and NK handlers, and were almost jailed for taking movies there. Google 'The Vice Guide to North Korea' and watch.
Oh, and even with permission and being guys they were scared shitless.
It's not like Current & Vice don't talk. The girls knew *exactly* what they were up against.
Where were the Chinese soldiers? On their side of no man's land. The 'girls' were still on Korean soil.
What point of view? The Current clubkids were trying to one up the Vice clubkids, using the PRNK as a prop.
Every time I see one of these clubkids go to a REALLY BAD SPOT in the world and then go 'Ima scared' into the camera I just roll my eyes.
09/02/09
I also don't see the problem with Lisa Ling using every single person in her Rolodex to get her sister out of that crime syndicate of a country. It's her sister. Flesh and blood. You wouldn't have done the same? You would have had enough moral rage to declare that she did the crime and she shall do the time, and just leave her there to die?
What about the Iranian-American female journalist that was jailed in Iran for vague reasons? She lived and worked in Iran knowing full well the Iranian government has a hard-on for journalists and media types, and will incarcerate them any chance they get. Isn't that sort of asking for it as well?
When these ladies were still incarcerated in North Korea, the majority of the comments here were supportive of their release. All of a sudden now they're back on American soil, they have become ungrateful ingrates for trying to tell their stories? People begrudge them for trying to get a book deal or TV movie deal? Would you like to sit in solitary confinement in North Korea for a while with an uncertain future in exchange for possible book deal?
09/02/09
09/02/09
As for the harshness of their solitary confinement, it has been reported by "Han Park, an American academic who was visiting North Korea at the time, [that] they were housed in a guest villa designed for foreign visitors outside the capital of Pyongyang. Professor Park said that Korean officials laughed at any suggestion that the women were receiving harsh treatment. ‘We are not Guantanamo,’ he was told."
Again, it seems that Ling and Lee mishandled themselves, putting themselves, their handlers, and perhaps even the Korean underground railroad and its beneficiaries at risk.
09/02/09
09/02/09
It will be interesting to see how the several arguments weaving through Gawker and Jezebel reconcile, if ever. (Man, I'm getting whiplash trying to keep up.) Were Ling and Lee dedicated journalists who took a calculated risk? Were they naive fameballs who stumbled into making themselves the story? Were they innocents manipulated into danger by their negligent bosses?
I seem to be stuck on simply expecting Ling and Lee to accept the consequences of their judgment and actions, and even to accept that in all ways they got off much better than the true victims of the story they went (or went sent) to get: The citizens of North Korea.
09/02/09
09/02/09
Here's another thing: I read that Euna Lee was born in South Korea and then moved to California as a university student. If that is true, how could she have grown up in the ROK and not known (and prepared better for) the dangers that she faced by merely being within sight of the PRNK border?
Again, I don't know how the National Geographic's guys pulled this off without making themselves the story. Seriously, read their article and look at thier photos. Were they not in the midst of it all? I believe it had to be professionalism and good planning that accounted for their success (and lack of capture), not luck.
09/03/09
But equating what the clubkids *did* and their current [no pun intended] attitude *now*, all that's going to do is piss off elements in the PRNK to think they were punked by the Americans. Again.
They're coming off as ungrateful ingrates because they're not as 'really really really sorry that they did anything wrong' as they were before their release.
There's nothing wrong with getting a book deal or a movie [that will never be seen in the PRNK].
There *is* with going to the world press and saying 'Nuh-uh, we had backsies' (and that apology, you can shove it).
Dear clubkids. The fearless leader has a TV. He probably gets current now. And now the fugitive crossing issue is up on his radar.
09/02/09
In the meantime, I am going to keep beating the drum for the journalists over at National Geographic who successfully covered this story in depth without getting captured or putting the underground railroad there at jeopardy.
09/02/09
I'm only angry cause a lot of people helping North Koreans were compromised in the process and these women show no remorse.
09/02/09
Also,here's a protip: You can't call backsies by running back over the border once you've crossed it. Violating another country's border doesn't work like that.
The tl;dr of this whole story is: Two stupid reporters do something stupid, don't want to admit it, beg for sympathy.
09/02/09
09/03/09
08/24/09
So, this story was out there. Just this year. And it seems that they were able to do their work without getting operations shut down.
So perhaps, gonzo journalism didn't work all that well if they have undone years of work and put existing organizations and refugees families at risk. (The NGS story clearly indicates that often families are moved one at a time.)