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Nat Finkelstein, 1933-2009
Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Irving Kristol, 1920-2009
Mike Bongiorno, the Gene Rayburn of Italy, Dies at Age 85
Dominick Dunne, Author
Ted Kennedy: An Assessment
Robert Novak, Columnist
John Hughes, Filmmaker
Budd Schulberg, Writer
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Chore Boy
10/14/09

In reply to Nat Finkelstein, 1933-2009
The fact that you did not capitalize "club kids" makes me want to pay you for this post, Pareene. Thank you.
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Princess Sparkle Pony
10/14/09

In reply to Nat Finkelstein, 1933-2009
Hmmm... Finkelstein was great, but I wouldn't call him THE Factory photographer. I thought that honor went to Billy Name.
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Novaload
09/26/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
There were quite a few Manson children, whereabouts unknown. Charlie had several of his own. Out there. Somewhere.
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SudeviUsopp
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I appreciate John Waters, but I don't understand pursuing any relationship or friendship with these women - on any level. I know that he embraces and celebrates the seedier and more transgressive elements in our culture in his films, but these individuals or neither marginal nor misunderstood, they did a very evil thing, as evil as evil can be.

They tortured and murdered seven innocent people, and expressed no remorse nor fully admitted to their wrongdoing in a public forum. My mother was 9 months pregnant with my older brother,her first child, in August 1969, and I cannot help imagining her murder in the place of Sharon Tate.

I understand that John Waters keeps a painting by John Wayne Gacy above the bed in his guest bedroom, so that "guests do not stay too long". I don't find the humor in this, nor I'm sure do the families of the 33 boys found murdered underneath his floorboards.

Call me humorless... but this extends beyond embracing bad taste. I find it disturbing.
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snugbug approved this comment SudeviUsopp was starred SudeviUsopp was unstarred

snugbug
09/25/09

@SudeviUsopp: I honestly don't understand John Waters' motives on a logical level either. But I do admire him greatly, as an artist, which is why I pay attention to what he says and don't discard it off-hand as rubbish. I thought Waters' Leslie Van Houten book moved beyond his usual provocative MO--it's a sincere effort to understand and try to absolve a very, very terrible person who did a terrible, terrible thing, but has since atoned for it. I dunno, it's an interesting thing to contemplate. It brings up interesting questions about the nature of evil, and society's default rules to forgive vs. forget.
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nellicat
09/25/09

@snugbug: I don't think it's rubbish, either, and I agree that the nature of mercy, the capacity for evil and for good, the concept of redemption, etc. are all very worthwhile things to think about and debate.

What bugs me about the excerpts I read is that Waters can't seem to understand why people can't just see the BEAUTY of LVH and let go of that nasty little incident in the past . . . his capacity for compassion for the survivors seemed so much less than his capacity for compassion for the killer. That strikes me as very wrong.
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BookishLookish
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I think of Sharon Tate all the time. I never think of those wretched women in prison who killed her. They can rot in hell, and Monday is Yom Kippur and I don't even care.
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TheBusinessGuy
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Good. Not soon enough, and I hope it was very painful. 'Nuff said.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Remorse is a powerful thing.

When the guy who raped and sodomized me was being sentenced, the judge intimated that if he'd only shown some remorse, he would have gotten a lighter sentence. Idiot stilled cried consensual and ended up in the slammer for 12 years--for a first offense.

Peeps, when it gets to the sentencing stage, always say you're sorry (unless you really didn't do it, of course).
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snugbug promoted this comment Eringowaaaah was starred Eringowaaaah was unstarred

snugbug
09/25/09

@Eringowaaaah: Oh God. I am so sorry this happened to you. May I suggest a beautiful piece of literature that deals with this kind of ordeal? It's a chapter from David Foster Wallace's "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men"--the "B.I. #20 12-96, New Haven, CT" chapter in the book. It's one of my favorite things in the world, and just thought I'd share that here.
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HypocriticalOath
09/25/09

@Eringowaaaah: 12 years? He should have gotten 12 lifetimes.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

@snugbug: Ordering right now. Thanks.
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Eringowaaaah
09/25/09

@HypocriticalOath: Thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Whatever he did to me in no way makes up for being Bubba's bitch for all this time. I'm sure he'll come out worse than he was when he went in. Especially if he's still lacking in that good old dose of remorse.

He gets out next year so am actively seeking suggestions for places to live besides NYC. Amsterdam is a top contender.
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CarlinaZeikfried
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
I dont have anything constructive here. Nothing exceeds like excess I guess.
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snugbug
09/25/09

@CarlinaZeikfried: Yeah, it's a bit of a letdown. I was hoping for some kind of back-and-forth about how and why a naive young girl from a middle-class, albeit dysfunctional, family, lost her mind under the influence of drugs and the ridiculous rantings of a misogynistic, illiterate pig. That's the part I never got--these young women testifying that they were so ensnared by Mason's spiel that they obeyed his orders like zombiebots. I also don't get Jim Jones, or the Nike sneaks cult, etc.
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Conchie Birdie
09/25/09

@snugbug: That's because you're probably (somewhat) sane and have a mind of your own.
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snugbug
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
On a related note, John Waters has just written a book about the friendship he developed over the years with Leslie Van Houten--the third infamous Manson girl, along with Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkel. He's been championing for her release for years.

Excerpt here, if you've got some time to burn. Quite an interesting addendum to this.. sad, horrible saga.
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Matt Cherette
09/25/09

@snugbug: Thanks! Going to read it.
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HollyAesacus
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Susan Atkins didn't stab Sharon Tate, she held her down so Tex Watson could. SA was a big talker who embellished a lot of what happened that night. All I can hope is that her death was excrutiatingly painful.
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Cynical Media Bitch promoted this comment Phyllis Nefler approved this comment HollyAesacus was starred HollyAesacus was unstarred

Private Hangnail
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
My brainwashing cult leader renames me Sadie Mae Glutz? I stay home when they go a' murdering.
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scroll_lock
09/25/09

@Private Hangnail: "I'd love to go, but I just washed my brain and I can't do a THING with it!"
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Private Hangnail
09/25/09

@scroll_lock: "Killing pigs? You know, I think I'll just sit in this here closet and sing folk songs."
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Cfegrl
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
"Bitch, I have no mercy for you." - Susan Atkins to an 8-month pregnant Sharon Tate just before she stabbed her 16 times.
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The One approved this comment Cfegrl was starred Cfegrl was unstarred

snugbug
09/25/09

@Cfegrl: Drugs + brainwashing. It's chilling how these two things can so effectively strip people of their humanity.
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Swifter
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz made quite a name for himself writing Vogon poetry in the 80's, and now serves as pedagogue to Zaphod Beeblebrox and Trillian's five children after winning a pan-galactic gargle blaster drinking contest.
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Edited by Swifter at 09/25/09 11:11 AM Swifter was starred Swifter was unstarred

Mymoustache
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
The whereabouts of Zazozose Zadfrack Glutz are unknown? Hmmmmm...I went to high school with a Zazozose but he spelled his last name "GluEtz."
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PandoraSpocks
09/25/09

In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
A definite example of sitting by the river long enough...
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