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New York, 11:31 PM
Mon Nov 30
60 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Chore Boy Chore Boy
    10/14/09

    In reply to Nat Finkelstein, 1933-2009
    The fact that you did not capitalize "club kids" makes me want to pay you for this post, Pareene. Thank you.
     Reply
    son of spam promoted this comment Chore Boy was starred Chore Boy was unstarred
    Image of Princess Sparkle Pony Princess Sparkle Pony
    10/14/09

    In reply to Nat Finkelstein, 1933-2009
    Hmmm... Finkelstein was great, but I wouldn't call him THE Factory photographer. I thought that honor went to Billy Name.
     Reply
    Pareene promoted this comment Princess Sparkle Pony was starred Princess Sparkle Pony was unstarred
    Image of Novaload Novaload
    09/26/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    There were quite a few Manson children, whereabouts unknown. Charlie had several of his own. Out there. Somewhere.
     Reply
    Novaload was starred Novaload was unstarred
    Image of SudeviUsopp SudeviUsopp
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    I appreciate John Waters, but I don't understand pursuing any relationship or friendship with these women - on any level. I know that he embraces and celebrates the seedier and more transgressive elements in our culture in his films, but these individuals or neither marginal nor misunderstood, they did a very evil thing, as evil as evil can be.

    They tortured and murdered seven innocent people, and expressed no remorse nor fully admitted to their wrongdoing in a public forum. My mother was 9 months pregnant with my older brother,her first child, in August 1969, and I cannot help imagining her murder in the place of Sharon Tate.

    I understand that John Waters keeps a painting by John Wayne Gacy above the bed in his guest bedroom, so that "guests do not stay too long". I don't find the humor in this, nor I'm sure do the families of the 33 boys found murdered underneath his floorboards.

    Call me humorless... but this extends beyond embracing bad taste. I find it disturbing.
     Reply
    snugbug approved this comment SudeviUsopp was starred SudeviUsopp was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    09/25/09

    @SudeviUsopp: I honestly don't understand John Waters' motives on a logical level either. But I do admire him greatly, as an artist, which is why I pay attention to what he says and don't discard it off-hand as rubbish. I thought Waters' Leslie Van Houten book moved beyond his usual provocative MO--it's a sincere effort to understand and try to absolve a very, very terrible person who did a terrible, terrible thing, but has since atoned for it. I dunno, it's an interesting thing to contemplate. It brings up interesting questions about the nature of evil, and society's default rules to forgive vs. forget.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of nellicat nellicat
    09/25/09

    @snugbug: I don't think it's rubbish, either, and I agree that the nature of mercy, the capacity for evil and for good, the concept of redemption, etc. are all very worthwhile things to think about and debate.

    What bugs me about the excerpts I read is that Waters can't seem to understand why people can't just see the BEAUTY of LVH and let go of that nasty little incident in the past . . . his capacity for compassion for the survivors seemed so much less than his capacity for compassion for the killer. That strikes me as very wrong.
     Reply
    nellicat was starred nellicat was unstarred
    Image of BookishLookish BookishLookish
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    I think of Sharon Tate all the time. I never think of those wretched women in prison who killed her. They can rot in hell, and Monday is Yom Kippur and I don't even care.
     Reply
    BookishLookish was starred BookishLookish was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    Good. Not soon enough, and I hope it was very painful. 'Nuff said.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of Eringowaaaah Eringowaaaah
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    Remorse is a powerful thing.

    When the guy who raped and sodomized me was being sentenced, the judge intimated that if he'd only shown some remorse, he would have gotten a lighter sentence. Idiot stilled cried consensual and ended up in the slammer for 12 years--for a first offense.

    Peeps, when it gets to the sentencing stage, always say you're sorry (unless you really didn't do it, of course).
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment Eringowaaaah was starred Eringowaaaah was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    09/25/09

    @Eringowaaaah: Oh God. I am so sorry this happened to you. May I suggest a beautiful piece of literature that deals with this kind of ordeal? It's a chapter from David Foster Wallace's "Brief Interviews with Hideous Men"--the "B.I. #20 12-96, New Haven, CT" chapter in the book. It's one of my favorite things in the world, and just thought I'd share that here.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of HypocriticalOath HypocriticalOath
    09/25/09

    @Eringowaaaah: 12 years? He should have gotten 12 lifetimes.
     Reply
    The One promoted this comment HypocriticalOath was starred HypocriticalOath was unstarred
    Image of Eringowaaaah Eringowaaaah
    09/25/09

    @snugbug: Ordering right now. Thanks.
     Reply
    Eringowaaaah was starred Eringowaaaah was unstarred
    Image of Eringowaaaah Eringowaaaah
    09/25/09

    @HypocriticalOath: Thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Whatever he did to me in no way makes up for being Bubba's bitch for all this time. I'm sure he'll come out worse than he was when he went in. Especially if he's still lacking in that good old dose of remorse.

    He gets out next year so am actively seeking suggestions for places to live besides NYC. Amsterdam is a top contender.
     Reply
    Eringowaaaah was starred Eringowaaaah was unstarred
    Image of CarlinaZeikfried CarlinaZeikfried
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    I dont have anything constructive here. Nothing exceeds like excess I guess.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment CarlinaZeikfried was starred CarlinaZeikfried was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    09/25/09

    @CarlinaZeikfried: Yeah, it's a bit of a letdown. I was hoping for some kind of back-and-forth about how and why a naive young girl from a middle-class, albeit dysfunctional, family, lost her mind under the influence of drugs and the ridiculous rantings of a misogynistic, illiterate pig. That's the part I never got--these young women testifying that they were so ensnared by Mason's spiel that they obeyed his orders like zombiebots. I also don't get Jim Jones, or the Nike sneaks cult, etc.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Conchie Birdie Conchie Birdie
    09/25/09

    @snugbug: That's because you're probably (somewhat) sane and have a mind of your own.
     Reply
    Conchie Birdie was starred Conchie Birdie was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    On a related note, John Waters has just written a book about the friendship he developed over the years with Leslie Van Houten--the third infamous Manson girl, along with Atkins and Patricia Krenwinkel. He's been championing for her release for years.

    Excerpt here, if you've got some time to burn. Quite an interesting addendum to this.. sad, horrible saga.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Matt Cherette Matt Cherette
    09/25/09

    @snugbug: Thanks! Going to read it.
     Reply
    Matt Cherette was starred Matt Cherette was unstarred
    Image of HollyAesacus HollyAesacus
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    Susan Atkins didn't stab Sharon Tate, she held her down so Tex Watson could. SA was a big talker who embellished a lot of what happened that night. All I can hope is that her death was excrutiatingly painful.
     Reply
    Cynical Media Bitch promoted this comment Phyllis Nefler approved this comment HollyAesacus was starred HollyAesacus was unstarred
    Image of Private Hangnail Private Hangnail
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    My brainwashing cult leader renames me Sadie Mae Glutz? I stay home when they go a' murdering.
     Reply
    Private Hangnail was starred Private Hangnail was unstarred
    Image of scroll_lock scroll_lock
    09/25/09

    @Private Hangnail: "I'd love to go, but I just washed my brain and I can't do a THING with it!"
     Reply
    scroll_lock was starred scroll_lock was unstarred
    Image of Private Hangnail Private Hangnail
    09/25/09

    @scroll_lock: "Killing pigs? You know, I think I'll just sit in this here closet and sing folk songs."
     Reply
    Private Hangnail was starred Private Hangnail was unstarred
    Image of Cfegrl Cfegrl
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    "Bitch, I have no mercy for you." - Susan Atkins to an 8-month pregnant Sharon Tate just before she stabbed her 16 times.
     Reply
    The One approved this comment Cfegrl was starred Cfegrl was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    09/25/09

    @Cfegrl: Drugs + brainwashing. It's chilling how these two things can so effectively strip people of their humanity.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Swifter Swifter
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    Zezozose Zadfrack Glutz made quite a name for himself writing Vogon poetry in the 80's, and now serves as pedagogue to Zaphod Beeblebrox and Trillian's five children after winning a pan-galactic gargle blaster drinking contest.
     Reply
    Edited by Swifter at 09/25/09 11:11 AM Swifter was starred Swifter was unstarred
    Image of Mymoustache Mymoustache
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    The whereabouts of Zazozose Zadfrack Glutz are unknown? Hmmmmm...I went to high school with a Zazozose but he spelled his last name "GluEtz."
     Reply
    PaisleyPajamas promoted this comment Mymoustache was starred Mymoustache was unstarred
    Image of PandoraSpocks PandoraSpocks
    09/25/09

    In reply to Susan Atkins, Manson Girl
    A definite example of sitting by the river long enough...
     Reply
    PandoraSpocks was starred PandoraSpocks was unstarred
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