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MissNormaDesmond
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
Dorothy Parker once said, "Some things just aren't funny, and they never will be." I'm pretty sure she had a good sense of humor.

I think people are probably being overzealous here, but I do get really tired of white people telling black people they should just laugh at white people's funny jokes about racism, whatever those jokes may be. Do you think dead baby jokes are funny? I do, sometimes; I have a pretty twisted sense of humor. Would I tell them to someone who's lost a child? No, that would make me an asshole. Nor would I try to tell black people what they should and shouldn't find funny about racism. They've suffered from it. I haven't.

And for all the idiots who will bring up "The Producers" -- Brooks made fun of Nazis. He did not make fun of the Holocaust.
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LoveHandles
12/19/09

@MissNormaDesmond: I agree with your sentiment 100%. However, I don't think it applies to this case. The newspaper wasn't making racist jokes because it wanted us to laugh at the jokes, the humor was meant to be derived from the fact that they were making the jokes in a satirical manner as if they were printed in the actual student newspaper. The humor was intended to be derived from the fact that the student newspaper portrays themselves as anti-racist and progressive when in reality, on the very next page, they have racist content. Obviously, the joke piece was being over-the-top in their satire, but that's precisely the point of satire (and, I would argue, all art in general) is to use hyperbole to make a point.
So while I agree that we shouldn't make racist jokes and ask minorities to just "be cool" about it and smile, I don't think this is what this humorist paper was attempting to do.
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MissNormaDesmond
12/19/09

@LoveHandles: I agree the intention was probably good, but I also get why some people would have a visceral reaction to a photo of an actual cross-burning and feel that it wasn't something to be made light of.

In any case, I'm not high on censorship, and don't think the Heckler had any obligation to remove the piece, but nor, for pretty much the same reasons, do I like the idea of telling people they can't or shouldn't protest. I do wish that people who protest wouldn't demand that other people be censored, though. I prefer taking issue with what's been said, rather than demanding it be unsaid somehow.
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Tweezergal
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Meg Whitman is on the board -- or was -- of Dreamworks. How does she navigate being around such mega-Jews as Steve Spielberg and Jeffrey Katzenberg? And her husband's father, Griffith Rutherford Harsh III, has a somewhat strange profile on his University of Alabama Department of Neurosurgery profile -- at least it's not information relevant to medicine. To wit: "Griffith Rutherford Harsh III was born January 9, 1924 in Birmingham, Alabama, of devout Christian parents and was raised in the Presbyterian Church." While it may or may not be something to be proud of, it doesn't really belong in a professional description.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 12/18/09 7:17 PM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

A Message To Rudy
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
Thanks, Onion, for making everybody think they can write funny fake news stories.

- Area Man.
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ThatsUnfortunate
12/18/09

@A Message To Rudy: It ought to be noted, however, that the original author of this article (Jack Stuef, the outgoing Editor-in-Chief of the Heckler) is a contributing writer to The Onion.
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A Message To Rudy
12/18/09

@ThatsUnfortunate: What do you mean "original author"?
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the rzo
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
My friend at Princeton (who is not at all a douche, and has impeccable anti-racist credentials) says that Will's a nice guy. He doesn't know the truth about the specific story, but says

"It's the kind of thing people want to believe."
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I1UCAN2
12/18/09

@the rzo: what on earth are "anti-racist credentials"? Please. I must know.

Also, I'm *pretty sure* that schools don't expel/suspend kids based on "the kind of thing people want to believe." (Although, I will not go so far as to say that an eating club might well have a herd mentality.)
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random_play
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Isn't it kind of low to keep going after Griff? Even if Meg wins, it's not like her idiot son will one day rise up to take the same office.

Oh. Never mind. Carry on.
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forwardmotion
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
It's just embarrassing and not funny.
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Uncle_Billy_Slumming
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Solamere: Sun / mother. Get it? Son / mother. Jagger, I have to walk you through everything, don't I. You can't just leave a thing like that sitting there.
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Tremonius
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Such boorish behavior in my estimation results not from entitlement but from insecurity about that privilege. The diva from the projects, or the rapper, or any wide receiver in any league, or a Repugnant in the Senate. If this is so, then the Whitman samplings are incidents of acting up because they aren't sure they're part of that environment otherwise. Better to be kicked out of school than simply not make the grade. There's an element of volition in violation, and experienced teachers can time misbehavior behind falling behind in classwork.
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Uncle_Billy_Slumming
12/18/09

@Tremonius: Quite right. He's acting out and reaching out for our help. Let's help him.
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ambitious
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Harsh, White man.

Or did someone already do this?
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Edited by ambitious at 12/18/09 11:34 AM ambitious was starred ambitious was unstarred

Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
I'm sick of the "Oh, it's just humor" excuse. That's not good enough. In this case, it simply wasn't funny.

The cardinal rule of taking on deservedly sensitive topics is be brilliant.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: Not funny (and I didn't even read it). The cross-burning pic is an absolute deal-breaker. My Dad's West Indian and I still have a collective unconscious shudder when I see that picture.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset:
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Edited by Lysergic Asset at 12/18/09 11:44 AM Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred

Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: That said, I'm not sure why censorship would be the answer when Stormfront is thriving.
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kpd0943001
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: This lame article satirizes racism, it does not actively denigrate black people. "Jersey Shore" does denigrate Italian-Americans (with the active help of some Italian-American retards) but many people on these boards see fit to tolerate it, even to celebrate its offensiveness. So lighten up - "it's just humor" IS good enough.
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HilliardTortoise
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset: My parents are both black, from the deep South, where I currently reside. I didn't know cross burnings and the Klan were big in the West Indies...but okay.
Anyhoo, I thought it was funny, cross burning Klansmen picture aside (I think one of the funniest scenes in O Brother Where Art Thou is at the KKK Rally... it's pretty funny in Harold and Kumar as well)
If you had bothered to read the actual article, you would see that the it's calling the newspaper a racist institution, as evidenced by their yearly cross burning.
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Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset:

I actually didn't say it should be censored. I said it wasn't funny. But if stuff goes over a certain line, I don't have a problem with saying that something should be removed.

The only people who claim there are no lines; there are always lines.
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Hamilton Nolan
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: The thing is people are not protesting it because "it simply wasn't funny;" they're protesting it saying it was racist. Which it clearly is not, and is in fact mocking.

@Lysergic Asset: "Not funny (and I didn't even read it)." That's funny.
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Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@kpd0943001: It's a thoroughly mediocre article.

I think I'll decide when it's appropriate for me to lighten up. In point of fact, I have a great sense of humor.

I haven't seen Jersey Shore, but if it's as offensive as I keep reading, I fully support any Italian Americans (or anyone else) who would want to see it pulled.
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Edited by Seeräuber Jenny at 12/18/09 12:38 PM Seeräuber Jenny was starred Seeräuber Jenny was unstarred

Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Hamilton Nolan: I wasn't bragging about my laziness; I was saying that the visceral reaction I had to the chosen picture made me not want to read it. That is all.
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Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@HilliardTortoise:

I wasn't a great fan of that scene in Brother, (great soundtrack, though) but it was a somewhat more successful attempt at satire.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@HilliardTortoise: My point was exactly that even though my father is from the West Indies (and I clearly don't have a family historical record of KKK cross burnings equal to blacks in this country), that I still had a bad reaction seeing the picture.

It was silly of me to pre-judge based on a photo, and I have no problem with the content of the article itself now that I actually read it.

Also: now that you reminded me, the O Brother cross burning scene was very funny, as was the one in Bad Boys 2. Mind opened.
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Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset:

I'm sorry I actually wasted time reading it.

Hey Everybody, want to hear my Holocaust and Armenian Genocide jokes? While we're at it, what about my bit about the Rape of Nanking? It kills.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: Me too, but I was being a hypocrite not having read it and commenting on it.

Perhaps the levity is necessary because man's inhumanity to man is otherwise incomprehensible.

Mel Brooks made light of the Holocaust in The Producers with his musical-inside-a-movie "Springtime for Hitler"... i wonder what his motivations were.

Cross-burning and lynching photos will always, always rub me the wrong way.
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Edited by Lysergic Asset at 12/18/09 12:50 PM Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred

Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@Hamilton Nolan:

Oh, I understood that, Hamilton. The perception of racism is not an entirely objective endeavor. I happened to think its primary problem was its ineffectiveness. I didn't think it was that subtle a distinction, but hope this helps.

BTW, hearkening back to another post you wrote, if the Jamaican government wishes to experiment with restricting songs on the public airwaves that perpetuate negative stereotypes about drugs and crime I support them. It's easy to mock "censorship" when you don't have to live with the evils that the censorship is aimed at.

But you probably think that there should be no restrictions on Nazi expressions in Germany. I would disagree.
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Seeräuber Jenny
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset:

It's almost a racket; get people upset reading and responding to the same ole shit when they could be using their energies to better purpose.

I'm not talking about Gawker, but about the original author.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Seeräuber Jenny: You could accurately be talking about Gawker as well, which is why sometimes I go away from here for many months at a time.

Lately I've been spending way too much time here defending my point of view. Sometimes even when I'm agreeing with people, they start an argument!

Not you; you're an egalitarian voice in the wilderness.
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Wrapitup
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Many moons ago, a Jezebel commenter once mentioned that one of the Harsh Brothers, either Griff or Will, had been suspended in high school for calling a black girl the N-word to her face. Apparently Princeton was much more indulgent.
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Wrapitup
12/18/09

@Wrapitup: Oh and I think it's very germane to the discussion that according to the GoaG article, young Will Harsh did not want to introduce a girlfriend to his family because she was Jewish.
[guestofaguest.com]

Kids do not acquire hateful attitudes like racism and anti-Semitism from thin air. They learn them from their parents. If young Will Harsh was indeed afraid that his parents would dislike his girlfriend simply because she happened to be Jewish, then this gets quite disturbing rather quickly.
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pmarble
12/18/09

@Wrapitup: Eating clubs at Princeton are not in fact part of Princeton. They are private institutions. While I am sure that, if true, calling someone this epithet could be seen as a violation of the honor code, I think the fact that the alleged incident took place off campus -- in effect -- would make it hard for the school to take action. And there is no evidence that the administration was told about the alleged event, so claiming Princeton was "indulgent" of such purported behavior seems at the very least an overstatement.
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d000505
12/18/09

@Wrapitup: Will's incident happened in an eating club, which technically isn't a part of campus. Each club is owned by their respective grad board. So theoretically he can't really be suspended for something that happened there.

I say "theoretically" because it has been known very rarely to happen but someone has to report it to the administration and/or psafe.
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I1UCAN2
12/18/09

@pmarble: the eating clubs are only legally separate from the university. That's why it probably took something totally separate for baby Harsh to be suspended. But, to be cut out of Cottage Club ... something bad had to have gone down.
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pmarble
12/18/09

@I1UCAN2: No doubt.
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intime
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
Wow.

I am not rich and have never tried to be rich, partly because I refuse to work 16 hour days and raise two children at the same time.

I have spent a great deal of time inculcating my children with what I consider to be proper values (very liberal ones) and manners.

As a result I get compliments on my children's behavior all of the time and they've never been kicked out of anything.

As ye sow...so shall ye reap.
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ligmasagbatch
12/18/09

@intime: You must be very proud.
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intime
12/18/09

@ligmasagbatch: No, just grateful it worked out!
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braak: You are, as usual, completely correct.
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
Heheh. That is kind of a funny story.
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Bottle-Of-Smoke
12/18/09

In reply to It Gets Worse: Meg Whitman's Sons' Racism and Entitlement Were Stuff of Legend
I just realized this entire time I had been confusing Meg Whitman with Christine Todd Whitman. I think it was the Princeton/NJ thing.

Doesn't really change much, I suppose.
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Tremonius
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: Just remember that life is like a box of chocolates; you never know which Whitman you're getting, although both are Repugnants.
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MosseyCade
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: They're both Carly Fiorina.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: Except that I might actually vote for Christine Todd Whitman. Woman has some sense, unlike this train wreck.
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Edited by Lysergic Asset at 12/18/09 12:17 PM Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred

Bottle-Of-Smoke
12/18/09

@Lysergic Asset: Agreed. Todd Whitman (CT Dubs, if I may?) has an interesting record. Not much separates her and Senate-version HRC. One might call her a maverick. Plus though her kid was out-of-place in college as a sorority-girl republican, she wasn't overtly racist, at least to my knowledge.
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Lysergic Asset
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: I think CT Whitman is more of an Eisenhower-era Republican. I've seen her on the Daily show a couple times and was very surprised by her even-mindedness.
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OldTowneTavern
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: The Whitman is a nutty little sampler: On the one hand, Christine Todd gets a kick out of frisking black people. But, on the other hand, she managed to be Governor of NJ without being indicted.
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unfriended
12/18/09

@Bottle-Of-Smoke: Christine Todd Whitman's kid went to Lehigh, I believe. And Lehigh is where rich GOP kids go when they can't get into Brown (Dan Quayle's kid went there too). Anyway, I think one, the other, or both of them both got PIs while at Lehigh. But I don't really fault the parents for what their jerk kids do.
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Bottle-Of-Smoke
12/18/09

@unfriended: I was referring to her daughter Kate, who went to Wesleyan. Not a bastion for rich GOP kids, but somewhere rich parents send their kids when the can't get into Brown nonetheless.
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Niko Bellic
12/18/09

In reply to College Kids Refuse to Censor Joke About Racism, Outraging Dumb People
Take it down? As in burn it in hard-copy terminology? Is this the progress that the internet is supposed to bring us? University officials calling for burning of publications?
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Edited by Niko Bellic at 12/18/09 10:43 AM Niko Bellic was starred Niko Bellic was unstarred

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