Hmmm, trickle down and the idea that interior decorators (or what have you) need love too...er, need to work too, reminds me of Maslow's Need Hierarchy:
You'll notice that airy-fairy things are on the top of the triangle. Sure, interior decorators need the stuff at the bottom, but in the current economy the rest of us need their services like we need non-standard hole in the head.
You can make the argument that appropriate interiors, art, etc, are crucial to living, but not before food, shelter, clothing et al. Sorry, folks, but keeping the interior decorators (or whatevers) employed is, at best, a lame rationale for Wall Streets bonuses with our taxes. We're not getting anything from it, and since you're spending my money, I want something besides chic penthouses for other people. I'm just funny that way.
Look, the basis upon which bankers hit up the government--that without taxpayer money, credit would freeze up--turned out to be total bollocks anyway. Given the money, the bankers decided not to lend. Suckers! So, basically, fuck them, fuck their bonuses, fuck their non-trickle-down-trickle down. Give the money to people losing their homes and fucked by usurious credit cards, and let them pay the bankers that way. And if some banks go out of business, good. No one in the magazine industry owes you fuckers any sympathy. You fucked up and you're going on the dole. Live with it.
So bankers are like waitresses in that a salary is is a meager formality and everyone is expected to live off Tips (regardless of the quality of service?)
Little known fact: Taxes get taken out of those bonuses. Taxes that like, pay for stuff like unemployment, and NY state taxes. In a warped way, that banker may indirectly be paying one's unemployment (which is currently screwed - the unemp fund that is). So, be careful for what you wish for...
@overunderover: and what do you think the effects of the unemployment of hundreds of thousands of people will be? the nys unemployment tax fund is already broke, the disaster is so vast
@katastic: Er, that money is put into the unemployment fund. Look at your paycheck. X dollars is taken out for unemployment taxes. The more you make, the more that's taken out. When people make less, it so follows that the fund would be smaller. When more people lose jobs and need unemployment insurance funds, and there's less of a pot.... bad news.
@if_i_only_had_a_heart: We're all to blame, really. Not just ibanker douchebags. From WalMart Shoppers who buy cheap chinese crap, to i bankers who get bottle service.
@overunderover: Put the money DIRECTLY into unemployment funds and other social services, rather than putting it into a paycheck and taking out a percentage of the paycheck. Cut out the middle man. I literally do not understand what you are not understanding about this.
@katastic: Maybe I'm a spaz today, but... put what money into the paycheck? The money someone (theoretically) earned? Are we assuming that every dollar the banks are paying employees are from the government?
I'm not arguing the validity of the wages paid to each and every banker - that argument has no winners.
So if a particular entity was profitable, someone doesn't deserve to get paid for their efforts to make money on their services rendered?
@overunderover: We're talking specifically about bonuses paid to bankers whose banks are being bailed out by the government. Banks that are in trouble and would fail without government assistance. So RATHER than giving those bankers bonuses, write legislation that ensures taxpayers are not paying for said bonuses, and instead pour that money into desperately- needed social services. We are not talking about profitable entities here- that's the point. We're talking about banks that are asking for money from the government to save themselves. Banks NOT asking for said money can pay their employees whatever they goddamn well please.
@katastic: See, my tax dollars are wasted on so many other things that I just don't share your ire towards the iBanking crew. Like... arenas and stadiums for pro teams paying individual athletes tens of millions of dollars, or for wasteful government contracts in far flung places like Iraq, or tax cuts for our wealthiest, or government contracts awarded via corruption, or shit, just whatever, take your pick.
The cacophony of waste around the board has drowned my senses that it simply is too easy and convenient to point our collective fingers at just one subset of folks.
@overunderover: unimportant point of order: YOUR tax dollars don't pay for stadiums. It is similar to a point but the teams don't pay taxes on the bonds or on the real estate so your tax dollars must be stretched further.
@overunderover: Yes! Lots of government spending is wasteful! But this would be going to the people who helped us into this fine fucking pickle, and much as I dislike the Yankees, they did not sink the whole economy. So here's my point- yes, lots of government spending should be cut or more closely regulated. SO WHY DON'T WE START HERE, HM???
My point being that we rarely ever have a true say in how our tax money is spent. And don't get me started on the "we elect our representatives" garbage....
I wouldn't be pissy about the amount of money these management teams are/were making if they were actually doing their job, but they have abdicated all fiduciary responsibility and have clearly not been acting in the best interest of their shareholders - the actual owners of the company. They have used arcane and opaque financial instruments to artificially inflate the worth of their companies in order to receive a big payout, to the detriment of the long term health of their organization. As a shareholder, I think Stan O'Neal should be cleaning my bathroom right now to make it up to me.
@Heneage: this was the only intelligent post in this thread. the rest of these people and extremely misguided anger and righteous indignation should take a minute to learn how finance works and what actually precipitated this crisis before lashing out at all us wall street fat cats...
@WyldStalyns: Well, at least we know who's going to be first against the wall when the revolution comes to Gawker. Seriously? Who gives a f*** about how finance "works," because it clearly doesn't need to keep working the way it has. Not with my taxes.
@WyldStalyns: I'd much rather people who work in finance had taken a few moments to learn how finance works--and how it most definitely doesn't work--before plunging the economy into its current crisis in an orgy of speculation on bad debt. None of this would matter had the government said sink or swim to the dumbass banks and the morons who worked for them when they came begging for money from their bag man Hank Paulson.
I guess I'm not sure why giving money to the bankers results in more people having money--like designers and watchmakers &c.--but giving money to unemployment or something is "wasteful."
Don't middle and low income people spend that money, too? Or do they have a big hole or something that they keep it in?
It seems kind of unreasonable to say that a person might suffer a significant detriment to his quality of life if he's only making $112k a year--and since the money that we spend is getting spent (again) one way or the other, is it so unreasonable to think it ought to go most towards people whose quality of life will be harmed by a lack of funds?
You know what? My husband just got laid off, 1,000 people are projected to be laid off in total at this employer alone, and still the "executive leadership team" kept their massive bonuses. All of them. The same leadership team that drove us into such a hole that now massive layoffs and restructuring are supposedly the only way to stay afloat. Fortunately they were kind enough to agree to cut their pay this year by 20%. What does that mean? That they are indeed geting a comfortable salary. If it weren't, I guarantfuckingtee they would not be agreeing to cut it.
All these people are being sent into an unemployment rate that is at 9% and growing (in our state). If they choose to fight for a position at this employer, they will have to bump someone off who is lower in seniority. And still, they keep their huge bonuses (and yes, by now we all know what their bonuses are, and they are big.)
We waited thru the massive housing overpricing, for years, in order to be able to buy a house within our means. We waited to start a family until we were in a decent financial position. Just as we were starting to put an offer on a house, he gets laid off. I am sure we are not the only ones who have been crushed in the past by a shitty market and and keep getting crushed even more now. And still these assholes keep their bonuses. I realize this is not all about us. It's about thousands of us who can't catch a break as long as these guys are allowed to abuse the system. But yeah, let's still hope trickle down is the answer.
And....GAH. I can't believe I just read this post. I hope they all choke in their bonuses.
@DrGirlfriend: But it is about you. And the hundreds of thousands like you, who are being forced to re-structure their lives and scramble and sacrifice. But we're just supposed to roll over and trust that somehow some portion of some stupid complicit fucker's bonus will trickle down to us. How dumb do they think we are? We're just supposed to take it up the butt and beg for another, please? Christ, this post makes me want to spit blood.
@Heneage: ads has been quite clear that the fuckers who burned down the financial system have ruined it for all, including people who want to play that game
they were given the keys and the set the car on fire
I guess that screaming "free market", "trickle down", "class warfare", "protectionism" and etc just isn't working as well as it used to. Perhaps we no longer want to take the word of the freemarketers that they know the way to prosperity for all. Amazing! Why would we ever doubt them?
@laurenzero: i think it's just stockholm syndrome and identifying with the captors: yes, if i was a banker i could make millions millions millions and damn u andy of u who takes away my imaginary bonus
I'm not necessarily against banks getting money in the bailout, it's the unbelievable lack of oversight that creates these problems.
Each bank handed money should do so based on a list of conditions, and someone should be appointed to make sure those conditions are met. Instead, you get the 50M private jets, million dollar offices and 4M company retreats.
What a crock-pot of crapola. "Interior decorators need to earn a living, too" just makes my blood boil. Perhaps this post's author should stick to tweaking the tweets of twits.
01/29/09
You'll notice that airy-fairy things are on the top of the triangle. Sure, interior decorators need the stuff at the bottom, but in the current economy the rest of us need their services like we need non-standard hole in the head.
You can make the argument that appropriate interiors, art, etc, are crucial to living, but not before food, shelter, clothing et al. Sorry, folks, but keeping the interior decorators (or whatevers) employed is, at best, a lame rationale for Wall Streets bonuses with our taxes. We're not getting anything from it, and since you're spending my money, I want something besides chic penthouses for other people. I'm just funny that way.
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> success: pay yourself whatever you want
> failure: go home
> taking government money and paying yourself whatever you want? priceless
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Not sayin' it's right. Just sayin'.
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much better to have a functioning economy, thnx
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I don't follow you. Makes complete sense
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I'm not arguing the validity of the wages paid to each and every banker - that argument has no winners.
So if a particular entity was profitable, someone doesn't deserve to get paid for their efforts to make money on their services rendered?
01/29/09
We are not talking about profitable entities here- that's the point. We're talking about banks that are asking for money from the government to save themselves. Banks NOT asking for said money can pay their employees whatever they goddamn well please.
01/29/09
The cacophony of waste around the board has drowned my senses that it simply is too easy and convenient to point our collective fingers at just one subset of folks.
01/29/09
01/29/09
01/29/09
My point being that we rarely ever have a true say in how our tax money is spent. And don't get me started on the "we elect our representatives" garbage....
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Don't middle and low income people spend that money, too? Or do they have a big hole or something that they keep it in?
It seems kind of unreasonable to say that a person might suffer a significant detriment to his quality of life if he's only making $112k a year--and since the money that we spend is getting spent (again) one way or the other, is it so unreasonable to think it ought to go most towards people whose quality of life will be harmed by a lack of funds?
01/29/09
All these people are being sent into an unemployment rate that is at 9% and growing (in our state). If they choose to fight for a position at this employer, they will have to bump someone off who is lower in seniority. And still, they keep their huge bonuses (and yes, by now we all know what their bonuses are, and they are big.)
We waited thru the massive housing overpricing, for years, in order to be able to buy a house within our means. We waited to start a family until we were in a decent financial position. Just as we were starting to put an offer on a house, he gets laid off. I am sure we are not the only ones who have been crushed in the past by a shitty market and and keep getting crushed even more now. And still these assholes keep their bonuses. I realize this is not all about us. It's about thousands of us who can't catch a break as long as these guys are allowed to abuse the system. But yeah, let's still hope trickle down is the answer.
And....GAH. I can't believe I just read this post. I hope they all choke in their bonuses.
01/29/09
Christ, this post makes me want to spit blood.
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they were given the keys and the set the car on fire
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i'm just saying
01/29/09
Each bank handed money should do so based on a list of conditions, and someone should be appointed to make sure those conditions are met. Instead, you get the 50M private jets, million dollar offices and 4M company retreats.
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