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Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
Yelp-Fight Participant: I Was Trying To Apologize
Yelp Fights Make Leap To Real-World Violence, Says Reviewer

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uptomj
11/13/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I am personally documenting that Yelp has been removing every positive review within 24 hours after they started calling me weekly for money. They have removed 11 positive reviews so far. They even removed a 5 star review posted 10 hours prior and double listed my only negative review which happens to not even be by an actual client but by a disgruntled "elite" yelper and always stays up. They are manipulating the reviews and extorting business owners for monthly payments. I will be filing a formal complaint.
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tigolbitties promoted this comment Kaila Hale-Stern approved this comment uptomj was starred uptomj was unstarred

johnnypotatoes
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
Pretty common green-journalist mistake here, taking the side of the person who talks to you, because they talked to you, and turned out not to be Satan. In this case, though, it seems pretty egregious, since this woman is clearly self-entitled, a perennial "victim," and a nut (in San Francisco? whoda thunkit?). One could easily describe what she did without taking her side (or, for that matter, without excoriating her), AND paint Yelp as the predatory company that it appeared to be even before this incident. And yeah, Yelp would have helped its case by simply returning a call. But that's just more of that aforementioned self-entitled arrogance the company shares with its stalker and so many of its neighbors. #oceanavebooks
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squeakel
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I don't understand why this is the second story here that portrays this woman as a victim. #oceanavebooks
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AndPreciousLittleofThat promoted this comment squeakel was starred squeakel was unstarred

AndPreciousLittleofThat
11/06/09

@squeakel: I don't think this story paints her as a victim. But it does point out the obligations of business owners, regardless of whether they're selling books or reviewing other businesses.

If Yelp truly does care about and want to promote quality businesses, they need to be willing to have discussions with those business owners when issues come up. It's just good customer service.

To be clear, allegedly assaulting someone because they exercised their First Amendment rights is NOT okay. But a company like Yelp, which is explicitly protected under that amendment, needs to realize the businesses they review are more than just data points. #oceanavebooks
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hadees
11/06/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: I disagree, Yelp is a review site. There are plenty of business out there that get good reviews so it isn't like it is impossible. Judging by the evidence this shop was not one of "quality" businesses. If the review had something that was blatantly untrue the shop owner could sue for slander. It also seems Yelp did have a few discussions with the owner but she just didn't like the answer. #oceanavebooks
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AndPreciousLittleofThat promoted this comment hadees was starred hadees was unstarred

AndPreciousLittleofThat
11/06/09

@hadees: Really? Did these discussions take place outside your head? The owner was unable to reach anybody at Yelp through multiple contacts, and when she finally went to their (UNMARKED) place of business, she was turned away.

What you said simply confirmed that Yelp is NOT a business, and they don't really give a fuck about other businesses. They delete posts and reviews without any explanation, and they don't seem to be willing to tolerate any discussion of their policies. Cowardly. #oceanavebooks
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hadees
11/11/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: Ok first off,

"Last Friday, Oct. 30, after an unsuccessful phone call"

That is a singular phone call, not "multiple contacts", and it doesn't say she was unable to reach anyone. It said unsuccessful as in she wasn't able to get them removed.

"(UNMARKED) place of business"

How odd an Internet business, aka not brick and mortar, would have poor signage.

Also note she got their address from the Better Business Bureau which is there to solve disputes with business. It isn't an address book to go there in person. I've made complaints to the BBB and they have gotten resolved through the BBB. There is no mention she did anything at the BBB other then get the address.

What you said simply confirmed that Yelp is NOT a business, and they don't really give a fuck about other businesses.

Wait you just said they aren't a business and they don't care about OTHER business in the exact sentence line. Isn't that a contradiction?

" They delete posts and reviews without any explanation, and they don't seem to be willing to tolerate any discussion of their policies."

How does this relate to this case? The issue here was things weren't getting deleted. I don't see your point. #oceanavebooks
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joshua.a.gardner
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I used to work at this restaurant in LA that had very recently opened. The owner thought it a good business move to pamper these ''Yelp Elite" with free food and booze all night. Meanwhile, they just ordered us around as if they owned the place and demanded things that weren't even on the menu -- all the while saying "We're from Yelp." Yeah, buddy. Me too. We can all type "meh" ad nauseum. What is it about Yelp that attracts such snotty people? People who have never had to work service jobs but love nothing more than to degrade those who do. Yelp is petty and useless.
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lukeoneil47 promoted this comment Kaila Hale-Stern approved this comment joshua.a.gardner was starred joshua.a.gardner was unstarred

lukeoneil47
11/06/09

@joshua.a.gardner:

Dear Yelpers,

Remember that old saying "everyone's a critic"? You know that wasn't supposed to be a suggestion, right? Pretty sure it's okay to put the stop watch and the notebook away there Frank Bruni. The third order of free bread is on its way. Entitled fucking CSI team combing over the ceviche with infrared cameras.

In terms of actual real world usefulness, firing off 300 word missives about the over-salted sea bass you had last night falls somewhere between rubbing one off into a hat just before you put it on and running around with scissors in your mouth the long way. Sure, probably a good way to relieve some stress, but keep that mess to yourself.

[putthatshitonthelist.blogspot.com] #oceanavebooks
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MissNormaDesmond
11/07/09

@lukeoneil47: Where does commenting on Gawker fall on that scale, I wonder? #oceanavebooks
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MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred

lukeoneil47
11/07/09

@MissNormaDesmond: Roughly equivalent to farting on the deck of an overcrowded submarine, then waiting for everyone to give you a high five for how awesome it smells. #oceanavebooks
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lukeoneil47 was starred lukeoneil47 was unstarred

MissNormaDesmond
11/08/09

@lukeoneil47: Hmm. Well, whatever floats your submarine. #oceanavebooks
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MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred

lukeoneil47
11/08/09

@MissNormaDesmond: farts mostly. #oceanavebooks
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lukeoneil47 was starred lukeoneil47 was unstarred

MissNormaDesmond
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
By the way, this is an interesting opportunity to discover whether the adage "There's no such thing as bad publicity" is true or not. My bet is she has more visitors than usual over this, if only to gawk, you should excuse the expression. #oceanavebooks
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MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred

joopnsf
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
Granted, her forthcoming insanity plea will probably hold in court, but take a step back and look the whole picture: The economy sux, and has for some time, so her sales are down (regardless of the state of the book store). Yelp has most likely bombarded her with sales calls telling her how her ratings can "improve" if she throws some advertising dollars its way. And while she desperately wants good reviews on Yelp, her advertising budget is currently non-existent and some of her better reviews have been "mysteriously" disappearing.
How can I be sure of any of this? Yelp used that MO on my business. And when I finally started hanging up on the Yelp advert sales folks, the good reviews began disappearing, and a whole slew of new, one-star insults began appearing. Complaints about such things go nowhere at Yelp. So my best revenge was outing Yelp on its own website with a 1 star review. Jeremy the owner contacted me, told me how unfair I was being, and generally whined quite a bit.
But, I didn't show up at anyone's house with a laurel branch... or baseball bat.
And on another note: Does anyone else find it "curious" that Sean C. aka nine_lives DESPERATELY feels the need to be interviewed by Gawker/Valleywag? Isn't his 15 minutes almost up? #oceanavebooks
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VoxPopuli
11/06/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I'm sorry, but if this woman comes off half as nutty in person as she does in writing, I would also give her blank stares until security asked her to leave.
She wanted to "convey the seriousness of what was about to happen to her?" Uh, security!

Lady, it's the internet. If you get a bad review write your own positive one under a fake name, duh. Jeez, it's Yelp, not physics.

Also, stalking is bad. Please keep that on a Post-It where you can see next time you have a "crisis." #oceanavebooks
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lostarchitect
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
She is pretty obviously a total nutcake. I mean, first she goes to Yelp's offices to complain about a bad review, then she tracks down the poster of the review and shows up on his door step? I'm sorry, I just don't believe one thing she's saying about how she's the victim here. #oceanavebooks
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lukeoneil47
11/06/09

@lostarchitect: That is pretty insane when you think about it, which I hadn't until just now. #oceanavebooks
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lukeoneil47 was starred lukeoneil47 was unstarred

nine_lives
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I should also add that after her user account was suspended she opened a business account and posted a rebuttal to my review (since removed by Yelp) saying that i constantly came in her store drunk and I was surly and rude to her - absolutely untrue. If she continues to tell these "stories" at the restraining order hearing or at her criminal trial she will be committing perjury - my wife and I both submitted statements to the police - SHE was the one arrested for trespass and battery and arrested and placed on a psychiatric hold at the jail. The truth will come out in court - Sean C (from Yelp)
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phlox✔ promoted this comment nine_lives was starred nine_lives was unstarred

lostarchitect
11/05/09

@nine_lives: Yeah, I don't think you have much to worry about. She's making her own bed here. Sad really. She could have just posted, "yes, it's a mess, but we have everything!" or something and that would have been the end of it. #oceanavebooks
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lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred

nine_lives
11/05/09

@lostarchitect: whats upsetting to me is that Ryan never contacted me to get my side of the story despite repeated attempts to give him my contact information. It's frustrating to have to read all this misinformation
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tigolbitties promoted this comment nine_lives was starred nine_lives was unstarred

limber
11/06/09

@nine_lives: Do you know how the hell she tracked you down? Because that part of the story is creepy and mysterious. #oceanavebooks
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limber was starred limber was unstarred

funknut
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
How can you not feel bad after opening your door to someone with a laurel bush in-hand, pushing them out invoking a scuffle, proceed to push them down the stairs, file a police report for battery and not feel any remorse posting defamation all over the internet? On SFWeekly he is reported to have said "I pushed her out, she pushed me back in, and I pushed her out again." #oceanavebooks
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Pope John Peeps II promoted this comment funknut was starred funknut was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
11/05/09

@funknut: Hahaha. A thread full of people who see this lady as utterly nuts, and ONE SINGLE person who doesn't.

So, how's the store look today? #oceanavebooks
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Pope John Peeps II was starred

limber
11/06/09

@funknut: If someone from the Internetz spazzed out at me online, then tracked down my address and showed up at my front door, uninvited? Every single bet is off at that point.

I don't care what sort of bush they're holding. That is crazy, wild-eyed stalker behaviour. #oceanavebooks
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limber was starred limber was unstarred

funknut
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
No one knows what really happened. The two stories are contradictory and the individual stories are even meta-contradictory. Sean C. mentions that he "pushed her out, she pushed him back in, and then pushed her out again" in the SFWeekly article, but then he says elsewhere that she pushed first. So which is it, Sean? #oceanavebooks
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MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment Magister approved this comment funknut was starred funknut was unstarred

MissNormaDesmond
11/06/09

@funknut: Stop. Just stop. He had every right to push her out, she was trying to force her way into his home. Or, more likely, you were trying to force your way into his home. Either way, nobody's buying it, because she/you had no business coming to his home in the first place, whatever her/your intentions were. Let it go, quit while you're behind, stop digging the hole. #oceanavebooks
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funknut
11/06/09

@MissNormaDesmond: I don't know why you're so convinced this guy's story is true. People pull stunts like this all the time at the expense of others. (ahem, Falcon Heene). I'm not saying Goodman did the right thing by showing up unannounced, no, that's downright creepy. I am not convinced that we're getting the whole story. #oceanavebooks
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limber
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
Nooo no no. "I attempted to convey the seriousness of what was about to happen to me"?

There was no impending doom until this lady forced the issue. Just a bad review, then a stupid decision to make a bad situation worse by engaging online. And then she panicked and tried to circumvent the rules.

But you have to keep this sort of thing online. I worked in a very similar environment, and if people turned up, they got stopped at our front desk as well. #oceanavebooks
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limber was starred limber was unstarred

raincoaster
11/05/09

@limber: Exactly. The seriousness of what was about to happen to her? Oh, you mean Justice? We'll get right on that, hon. #oceanavebooks
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raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred

nine_lives
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I'm still disapointed that Ryan hasn't contact me to get my side of the story - Ryan your reporting seems to be one sided and biased. At your request I emailed you 3 times and tried to contact you through the Gawker web site. - Sean C (from Yelp)
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lostarchitect promoted this comment nine_lives was starred nine_lives was unstarred

VoxPopuli
11/06/09

@nine_lives: Oh no. Please don't take clues from the crazy bookstore lady.

I think you come out looking fine. I wouldn't worry about it. She's the one who looks nuts. #oceanavebooks
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CumaeanSibyl
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
I am completely convinced by her account of the Yelp visit. #oceanavebooks
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iplaudius
11/05/09

In reply to Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl
Yelp may suck, but this bitch is still cray-cray. #oceanavebooks
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Yelp's Lost Chance to Prevent a Brawl

Yelp-Fight Participant: I Was Trying To Apologize

Yelp Fights Make Leap To Real-World Violence, Says Reviewer

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