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Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che

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Uncle_Billy_Slumming
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
Oh shit, I feel really bad. I started the most recent che t-shirt trend.
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James Tiberius Quirk
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
I think we should let Che speak for himself:

"If the missiles had remained we would have used them against the very heart of America including New York. We must never establish peaceful coexistence."

"This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."

The perfect message shirt for a saunter down Bedford, eh?
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@James Tiberius Quirk:

Nice time of year for cherry-picking dubious quotes!

There are mile-high stacks of che quotes out there. We could go back and forth all day long. His quotes are even less useful a rubric than his actions. Che was not the most successful military commander. He didn't really ever run Cuba or any other post-revolutionary state. His success as a liberator was mixed.

His legacy is that he's a symbol for anti-colonialism and solidarity among the world's poor people. I find it kind of off-putting when well-off white liberals try to denigrate the man's legacy. It's that same paternalistic mindset that the third world was fighting against in the sixties.
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James Tiberius Quirk
11/20/08

@Botswana Meat Commission FC:

Comrade Botswana,

Quote 1 - Statement in an interview with a reporter for the London Daily Worker (November 1962), quoted in The Nuclear Deception : Nikita Khrushchev and the Cuban Missile Crisis (2002) by Servando Gonzalez, p. 111; and Fidel : Hollywood's Favorite Tyrant (2005) by Humberto Fontova, p. 24

Quote 2 - As quoted in The Cuban Revolution : Years of Promise (2005) by Teo A. Babun and Victor Andres Triay, p. 57; also in The New American Revolution : Using the Power of the Individual to Save Our Nation from Extremists (2005) by Tammy Bruce, p. 204

Those quotes might be cherry picked but they are not dubious. As you point out yourself, Che was not successful as a revolutionary or as a military or political leader. As a symbol for the worlds poor or disenfranchised he's no Nelson Mandela. However, as a t-shirt for well off liberals of all colors to show their 'solidarity' with the poors, he's been quite effective.
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hypocriteoath
11/20/08

@James Tiberius Quirk: and another thing: he IS a symbol to the poor of the world but not always the same symbol. To many, he is a light of hope and possibility including some who met him or had parents who did. Then again, some others who met him think of him as a murderous dictator in his own right. every coin has two sides and you can stick up for him all you want but you must admit he did some bad things and is not universally a symbol of the struggle many people face. When rich kids who do NOTHING good for the world except wear a Che t-shirt are added to the equation, the backlash is obvious.
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@hypocriteoath:

Honestly, I think the whole "rich american college kid t-shirt" part of it is irrelevant.

I mean, even in this globalized world, how many other individuals carry the kind of universal meaning in their legacy? Mandela? Maybe, but I dunno if his story is quite as potent...
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lrubemp
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
"Sadistic love of violence"? Based on the sick musings of a bitter right-wing emigre? The vulgar, and thoroughly undocumented, criticisms directed against Che only reveal the political bankruptcy of the Batista nostalgics. Che's continuing example of revolutionary consistency and steadfastness, and his personal incorruptibility, are what resonate today in a world of Bushes, Clintons, Calderons, and Putins, to say nothing of rapidly imploding world capitalism. If the movie had legitimized the various lies that, for all their re-telling, have failed to dim Che's reputation, it would never have seen the light outside Miami.
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somedayarealrainwillcome
11/20/08

Inc@lrubemp: So much wrong with this statement. Have you read the book on Che by John Lee Anderson? Che's problem wasn't in his steadfastness, but the fact that he expected all others to maintain that steadfastness, and if they didn't, he shot them or ordered them to be executed. Not to mention the cheating on his wife, assholishness he displayed as a young man, partaking in of whores, racism, and violently anti-gay rhetoric he employed.

Do some people have to die for a revolution? Yes, but there's a difference between necessity and simply because you want to. As for strategic military commander, he failed in Africa and failed in central America, so I neglect to see where this exalted reputation as a guerilla mastermind comes from.

Che worship is for teenagers and those obsessed and blinded with the romantic image of anyone deemed a revolutionary. Subcomandante Marcos makes a much better person to revere for you and your marxist buddies.
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gawkimo
11/20/08

@lrubemp: Yeah man, and in Cuba everyone is a chess master that reads Russian literature and gets free heart transplants on request. That's what some guy told me at a meeting at the student union.
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shostakobitch
11/20/08

@lrubemp: troll
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@somedayarealrainwillcome:

He cheated on his wife? Oh NOOOOO! Please. Are you really going to bring up hi "assholishness he displayed as a young man?" Really?

Che is a worldwide martyr for poor people. Nitpicking is irrelevant. If he's not up to your standards, who should some poor teenager in a slum in Panama or the Congo idolize? Ronald Reagan?
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@gawkimo:

And before the revolution they were all fat and happy, smoking cigars and playing roulette, right?
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MrInBetween
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
And I heard Vinny Chase phones in his performance in this one.
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Mr. Kim Gordons Panties
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
The liberal fascination with this murderous ideologue baffles me. If you're going to glorify a Latin revolutionary, how about Cesar Chavez? But I guess violence makes for a more exciting story.
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@Mr. Kim Gordons Panties:

The man is a worldwide symbol of the fight against colonialism. He's still hugely admired throughout the third world as a martyr for his cause. Americans generally don't understand how widely Che is admired around the world.

Cesar Chavez is swell, but not exactly of the same epic scope.
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Mr. Kim Gordons Panties
11/20/08

@Botswana Meat Commission FC: Valid point. I just have a problem with anyone, from the Left or the Right, for whom the ends justify any means.
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Uncle_Billy_Slumming
11/20/08

@Mr. Kim Gordons Panties: How bout this then: The ends justify the means only if the @bittergreen: Sex Lies and Tapeworms
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gawkimo
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
I can't wait for Cuba to become an all-inclusive tourist resort run by right wing Cuban exiles!
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SpecialK
11/20/08

In reply to Soderbergh Gets Castro's Blessing for Che
"Cinematically we're making a demand on the audience that's very similar to the demands Che made on the people around him."

It's shoots them in the face? It insists you want a third-world revolutionary war when you'd really rather not?

But as the ur trust-fund baby turned revolutionary, this has got to play well in Williamsburg.
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Botswana Meat Commission FC
11/20/08

@SpecialK:

But as the ur trust-fund baby turned revolutionary, this has got to play well in Williamsburg.

Or maybe it will play well in virtually 100% of the carribean, huge swaths of south america, nearly every former African colony and much of southeast asia.

This obsession with Che-t-shirt wearing college students is pretty damn myopic.
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