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New York, 11:48 PM
Fri Dec 18
54 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Choire Choire
    11/06/09

    In reply to Magazine for Flacks Commends the New York Times for Being So Nice to Flacks
    Why can't I get my pitchfork lit on fire using my torch? Am I doing it wrong? #newyorktimes
     Reply
    Choire was starred Choire was unstarred
    Image of John Cook John Cook
    11/06/09

    @Choire: Oh just wait till you see the n+1 e-mails. #newyorktimes
     Reply
    John Cook was starred John Cook was unstarred
    Image of Choire Choire
    11/06/09

    @John Cook: Well, since it's just us in here... how you doing? How's Allison? Giver her my best. Maybe we should double date next week! Okay, CHAT AT YOU LATER. #newyorktimes
     Reply
    Choire was starred Choire was unstarred
    Image of El_Gato El_Gato
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC
    I imagine Shelly Ross will be extremely furious with Christine Anderson for talking such smack behind her back. I never understood why people who work for government agencies that get FOIA'ed all the time still use their government e-mail accounts to say things they wouldn't want made public. #today
     Reply
    El_Gato was starred El_Gato was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC

    No current or future story on Spitzer can ever hope to trump that NY mag cover that so sucintly and perfectly summarized his persona & M.O. back in March 2008. An image = one thousand words, and all that. #today
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of GORDONGARTRELLE GORDONGARTRELLE
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC
    "Can you send" me -- communications director for the governor of the State of New York -- a New York Daily News article. "Unreal" indeed. #today
     Reply
    John Cook promoted this comment GORDONGARTRELLE was starred GORDONGARTRELLE was unstarred
    Image of gladys_kravitz gladys_kravitz
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC
    I hope Silda gave the doorman a good holiday tip for having to deal with all these asses. #today
     Reply
    gladys_kravitz was starred gladys_kravitz was unstarred
    Image of Hockeymom Hockeymom
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC
    The most interesting thing about this is that working for Shelly Ross is still worse than working for a Governor who has a hooker habit. #today
     Reply
    Hockeymom was starred Hockeymom was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: Today Offers to Help Spitzer's Flack Land a Job at NBC
    Lt. Gov Paterson's strong and storied leadership

    Um... okay. Did he have a backstory?
     Reply
    Edited by Magister at 11/05/09 11:38 AM Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/05/09

    @Magister: That was my favorite line, too. #today
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Valerie Flame Valerie Flame
    11/05/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: How the New York Times and the Press Serviced Client No. 9
    At the very least, Gawker got some higher quality commenters out of this one.

    You'll learn more about reporting here than in four years of J-school. #eliotspitzer
     Reply
    Valerie Flame was starred Valerie Flame was unstarred
    Image of raincoaster raincoaster
    11/05/09

    In reply to A Note on Sourcing on The Spitzer Files
    Help me with this, seriously.

    If someone says "off the record" and then goes on to burble all kinds of crap, are you bound by that, or DO THEY HAVE TO WAIT to see if you accept that condition? Because I've always believe that conditions had to be agreed to specifically before they could be binding.

    Then again, that could explain why I'm not a journalist anymore. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred
    Image of John Cook John Cook
    11/05/09

    @raincoaster: I generally speak up right away if I don't accept the condition. It would be kind of sneaky to hear them out, and then at the end of it, say "I never agreed to it anything!" #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    John Cook was starred John Cook was unstarred
    Image of raincoaster raincoaster
    11/05/09

    @John Cook: Yes; of course, I'm sneaky. But with an email, you don't get the option to say "hey, waitaminit!"

    So does receipt of the email constitute agreement? Or were they just plain blind trusting that you'd agree? #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred
    Image of Sergio Hernandez Sergio Hernandez
    11/05/09

    @raincoaster: I think relying on e-mails can definitely put journos in a difficult situation because it does (seemingly) strip them of their power/leverage when negotiating the terms under which they exchange information with sources.

    Technically, I guess, you could argue that if the reporter never agreed to going off-the-record, the information is fair game. And a PR flack should, indisputably, be more prepared for this possibility than someone who is unaccustomed to dealing with press.

    But as a practical matter, I don't think it would be useful for reporters to alienate a source (flack or otherwise) by pushing that angle too hard. Unless the story is compelling enough, I think most reporters would just take the hand they're dealt and try to negotiate the best/fairest compromise to give each party what it wants/needs.
     Reply
    Edited by Sergio Hernandez at 11/05/09 1:19 AM Sergio Hernandez was starred Sergio Hernandez was unstarred
    Image of raincoaster raincoaster
    11/05/09

    @Sergio Hernandez: Yes, of course the question only comes into play when the value of the specific information is enough to make you think about burning the source. Even one who's just jumped on the stove naked.

    Still, surely a professional PR or other journalist should be smart enough to send an email with "Off the record: agreed?" before sending the money shot. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred
    Image of Sergio Hernandez Sergio Hernandez
    11/05/09

    @raincoaster: Well, exactly.

    A professional PR flack or journalist should know better. So if they submit a juicy tip before agreeing on its usage terms, I, at least, would be less hesitant to pull the "I didn't agree to putting this off-the-record, so thanks!" card.

    That said, a PR guy probably isn't going to just send you something off-the-record unless you've already cultivated a relationship with him. Which means he probably won't assume he can just put something off-the-record unless he and the journo have established that norm.

    In this case, I guess the Times employees who e-mailed John couldn't be too surprised if Gawker had gone ahead and published them anyway.

    But it seems like Gawker does, pretty freely, grant anonymity to whoever requests it. So in a way, it's established a standard that tipsters have the upper ground in deciding "recordness," and Gawker will just have to try and negotiate more favorable terms than the tipster's. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    Sergio Hernandez was starred Sergio Hernandez was unstarred
    Image of El_Gato El_Gato
    11/04/09

    In reply to A Note on Sourcing on The Spitzer Files
    Just to reiterate, Lila Kirton was working for the executive chamber at the time. She was a government employee. Gov't employees are almost always instructed to refer media requests to their press offices. I've had plenty of occasions where I called up a govt employee because I was writing something positive about them and they STILL made me go through their press office first.
    I imagine Hakim -- who has covered Albany for years -- was aware of this protocol. And it also wouldn't surprise me if he and the flak, Christine, had such a longstanding relationship that it was implied in his message that he not only was seeking clearance to interview Kirton but was also trying to get her email or contact info. If not, why would the flak voluntarily cough up such valuable information????
    As I've said before, this isn't Hollywood. It's a quid pro quo relationship, and it pays to be civil. I've known reporters who tried to push government flaks around and demand information with an attitude. Sometimes it works, but other times it just causes the flaks to hate you and to withhold very valuable information. When I covered dcpi out of Police Plaza a couple years back, for example, I remember there was one award-winning reporter who thought very highly of herself and would DEMAND information from the flaks (many of whom are ex detectives/officers). This being police plaza, the flaks simply shut her out. They refused to give her anything, and she ended up having to go to the police reporters from other papers to beg them for info/details. There was nothing else she could do.
    Anyway, bottom line, it pays to have a civil relationship with the press officer for the governor you're covering. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    El_Gato was starred El_Gato was unstarred
    Image of John Cook John Cook
    11/05/09

    @El_Gato: I guess everybody does their jobs differently. But the fact that you're so willing to accept the notion of asking a flack's permission to call the governor's ex-mistress just because that's the way it's done--meaning that's what the flacks demand--is a pretty good indication of how successful they've been at controlling the press in Albany. And if Hakim couldn't find Kirton, were he so inclined, without Anderson feeding him her numbers, then he had no business working at a newspaper. Also--what on earth is uncivil about looking up a phone number for a person you want to talk to and calling them? Would that have been some sort of affront to Anderson? It's madness to think that reporters are somehow being rude if they don't clear their reporting moves in advance with the people who are paid to control and manipulate them. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    John Cook was starred John Cook was unstarred
    Image of El_Gato El_Gato
    11/05/09

    @John Cook: I'm not sure you understood what I was saying. Calling the press office is not a matter of courtesy. Most government employees are FORBIDDEN from speaking to the media without getting authorization from their press office first. In fact they could lose their jobs.
    As a result, as a reporter, when you call most rank-and-file government employees for an on-the-record interview, their response is "Speak to the press office." They will NOT speak to you on-the-record until their press office gives them (the employee) permission to.
    Once the press office gives that employee permission to speak to the media, then they call you back and talk on the record. It's not a question of decorum or being polite, it's a matter of government employers exerting control over what their employees say to the media. Because of this, reporters often have no choice but to go to the press office when they want to interview a bureaucrat.
    The exception, of course, is when you get someone to agree to speak to you "on condition of anonymity." I'm sure you've seen quotes in newspaper articles attributed to someone who "spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak to the media." In many cases, that's someone going AROUND their press office and speaking to the media without getting permission first (because they know that for whatever reason, they'd never be granted permission to say whatever it is they want to say). #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    El_Gato was starred El_Gato was unstarred
    Image of John Cook John Cook
    11/05/09

    @El_Gato: Wait! You're saying people can go "AROUND" the press office! But that's forbidden, isn't it? Gosh, I wonder what would have happened if Hakim had gone "AROUND" the press office--would he have gotten in trouble? No matter, state employees never talk to reporters without sign-off from the press office, except when they do. In any case, it's perfectly normal and reasonable for reporters to ask permission to speak to the ex-mistresses of the governors they cover because that's just the way it's done, and attempting to contact state employees without the advance approval of a person who is paid by the state to manage the press is always a complete waste of time. I understand that now, thanks for the insight into the mysterious professional bylaws of journalism, about which I clearly know nothing at all.

    The reference to civility was in response to your point that "it pays to have a civil relationship with the press officer for the governor you're covering," which has nothing to do with the matter at hand. It wasn't civil of Hakim to ask for permission, it was obedient. There's a difference. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    John Cook was starred John Cook was unstarred
    Image of El_Gato El_Gato
    11/05/09

    @John Cook: Have you considered the possibility that Hakim wanted to get the woman's comments ON THE RECORD, and thus was following protocol?
    Anyway, the bottom line is that Hakim's reporting practices -- which you consider obedient and problematic -- allowed him to break a story about a powerful governor patronizing prostitutes, which resulted in that governor resigning from office and ultimately earned Hakim a Pulitzer Prize. Obviously he knows what the fuck he's doing, and he's pretty damn good at it, whether you you think so or not. Good day sir. #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    El_Gato was starred El_Gato was unstarred
    Image of John Cook John Cook
    11/06/09

    @El_Gato: Following whose protocol, exactly? Good day to you, too! #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    John Cook was starred John Cook was unstarred
    Image of naugahydeinplainsight naugahydeinplainsight
    11/04/09

    In reply to A Note on Sourcing on The Spitzer Files
    About what you would expect:

    Topic: Letters Sent to Romenesko
    Date/Time: 11/4/2009 3:47:58 PM
    Title: NYT responds to Gawker piece on Spitzer coverage
    Posted By: Jim Romenesko

    From DIANE McNULTY, media relations, New York Times: Any suggestion that The Times went too easy on the Spitzer administration seems a bit absurd in this context.

    Our goal, always, is to get the facts right. Dealing with sources responsibly and professionally serves that goal, and that is what our reporters did in this case.
    [www.poynter.org]

    #tips
     Reply
    Edited by naugahydeinplainsight at 11/04/09 5:27 PM naugahydeinplainsight was starred naugahydeinplainsight was unstarred
    Image of bucklerg bucklerg
    11/04/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: How the New York Times and the Press Serviced Client No. 9
    Checking facts is always good, but you don't send a verbatim quote from your story to a PR person and ask "can I do this?" Not even to maintain the relationship. A paraphrase of what you're going to say and a question like "is this accurate?" sure. Yes, I'm a reporter.
     Reply
    John Cook approved this comment bucklerg was starred bucklerg was unstarred
    Image of Airvault Airvault
    11/04/09

    In reply to A Note on Sourcing on The Spitzer Files
    I'm loving the comments for the New York piece:

    "Gawker is to journalism what masturbation in front of a computer is to real sex between loving partners." #spitzerfiles
     Reply
    Airvault was starred Airvault was unstarred
    Image of Paddington Paddington
    11/04/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: How the New York Times and the Press Serviced Client No. 9
    Whose idea was this little expose? Did one of these former flaks say to someone at Gawker, hey, maybe there's good stuff here ... ?

    Just curious. Because the Spitzer people had a history of this type of behavior -- maybe leading people into saying embarrassing things, knowing that it would get public soon enough.

    Just curious ... #eliotspitzer
     Reply
    Gabriel Snyder promoted this comment Paddington was starred Paddington was unstarred
    Image of Gabriel Snyder Gabriel Snyder
    11/04/09

    @Paddington: Actually, the idea came about when we were marveling at The State's work on the Mark Sanford story and we started brainstorming other governors with interesting sex scandals who might make for an interesting public records request. Eliot Spitzer's name, obviously, came up very quickly.
     Reply
    Edited by Gabriel Snyder at 11/04/09 6:40 PM Gabriel Snyder was starred Gabriel Snyder was unstarred
    Image of Paddington Paddington
    11/04/09

    @Gabriel Snyder:

    OK. You are excused, then. #eliotspitzer
     Reply
    Paddington was starred Paddington was unstarred
    Image of abettertomorrow abettertomorrow
    11/04/09

    In reply to The Spitzer Files: How the New York Times and the Press Serviced Client No. 9
    Anything in the emails about the original source of the story? A lot of talking about "scoop" and "broke" but isn't it more likely that the Times was fed this story by someone that wanted to cause some pain and suffering to Spitzer? And that that same person was going to feed it to any number of other outlets as well? #eliotspitzer
     Reply
    abettertomorrow was starred abettertomorrow was unstarred
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