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New York, 9:12 AM
Tue Dec 1
57 posts in the last 24 hours
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08/02/09
Suppose someone killed a bunch of Israeli civilians simply because they are Jews? That'd be terrorism, right? Why should killing a bunch of Israeli civilians simply because they are gays be any different?
08/02/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIRAsPqJq4M&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fjoemygod.blogspot.com%2F&feature=player_embedded
p.s. Don't read the YouTube comments. They will make you ill.
08/01/09
08/02/09
Kind of inappropriate. C'mon.
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08/01/09
The lynching of African American men in the southern US in the first 2/3 of the 20th century were not just to mete out vigilante punishment, they were also to control the remainder of the African American community by sending the message that other 'uppity Negroes' would meet a similar fate.
In this case, the message was that gays who are in any way visible in society will be subject to brutal executions. And unfortunately the civil authorities are in fact helping the perpetrator of this crime with his task by closing the local gay bars. One would think that Israelis would know that you don't deal with terrorists by giving them exactly what they want.
08/01/09
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08/02/09
No they don't. They understand the most important point that Bill Maher ever made:
If you give into it, they win.
08/02/09
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08/01/09
And I am horrified to hear that another innocent died, and hope beyond hope that everyone else will pull through.
08/01/09
This whole thing has me totally upset and my heart goes out to the victims, their friends and families. This sort of attack has never happened in Israel before and it is a watershed moment. I hope some good will come of it and that we will be able to unite as a nation in condemning this heinous and cowardly attack.
08/01/09
08/01/09
Uniting in condemnation of these types of acts is not "a good that comes of it." The act still happened, and how we respond to that act as a world society doesn't offer even the slightest mitigation. Rather these condemnations are necessities. To not condemn these acts would be a great social evil, but we don't get extra brownie points for coming out against slaughtering homosexuals.
08/01/09
08/01/09
I also think it's possible that someone who could commit such a horrifying act of violence may not be as concerned with maintaining the sabbath. I know it depends on this person's specific pathology, but it is a possibility.
08/01/09
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08/01/09
More importantly, Judaism does not allow individuals to administer capital punishment. Even duly authorized legal bodies rarely administered capital punishment for any reason. Furthermore, being gay is in and of itself not a sin and lesbianism isn't proscribed at all. Even by the most backwards hard core Orthodox standards, man on man sex is exactly as "abhorrent" as eating shrimp, but you don't see anyone shooting up Tel Aviv's many sea food establishments.
If motivated by Homophobia, this was the act of a hateful, ignorant and quite possibly insane person. Ascribing blame to a religion is misplaced. Allow me to reiterate what I have already stated, ignorance and hate know no religious or ideological boundaries.
08/01/09
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08/01/09
Secondly, Judaism doesn't consider homosexuality a sin. A man can be gay and be just as religious and righteous as anyone. So what "greater good" would there be anyway?
08/01/09
I should make it clear that I don't really care if this guy's motive was religious or not. That was a side argument about homophobia when it comes from religious doctrine vs. homophobia existing in the secular world. And I still stand by my argument that homophobia that emerges from religion is a lot more pernicious, because there do exist sets of religious values that would enforce homophobia as a condition of salvation. I'm not saying Judaism does that. I'm just saying that the threat from religions that do contain such value systems is far greater than that of homophobia that crops up in the secular world, through no particular fault in secular thought.
08/01/09
Perhaps in your personal life, but not in mine. Though as an experiment here, please name for me just three well known living atheists who espouse homophobic beliefs. I can certainly name hundreds who are theists, but somehow I can't see PZ Meyers or Richard Dawkins teaming up with Fred Phelps.
While not all homophobes are rabidly religious, the lions share are. This is not necessarily completely a byproduct of religion itself though. You are correct that hating outsiders crosses all social and cultural boundaries. However, people who are atheists are more likely to question these beliefs and don't have the easy justification that their big bad sky-daddy told them it was bad and justified their hatred.
Its like what John Stuart Mill said of conservatives: "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative." Same with homophobia and the three major monotheistic religions.
08/01/09
Sure, as long as he doesn't engage in anal sex. That's the kind of same argument used by people who oppose same-sex marriage: "Gays can marry just like anyone else - as long as they marry someone of the opposite sex." In this case: "You aren't sinning of you are gay, just if you have gay sex."
So while your argument may be technically correct, its complete and utter bullshit. Have a look at the film "Trembling before G_d" if you want a more detailed description of how and why Judaism considers homosexuality a sin.
08/02/09
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08/02/09
Any of those people who felt they needed to leave the religion of their youth did it of their own volition. Others (like the psychiatrist) were able to accept who they were and remain in the fold.
How the Ultra Orthodox in Israel choose to look at these gay members of their group is of their own choosing.
08/02/09
08/01/09
No. It was the Tel Aviv Gay and Lesbian Association, a community center. The shooting took place during a meeting of a support group of LGBT teenagers. It was a social club.
08/01/09
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE5701V520090801
08/01/09
Just appalling, these were kids. Ah, sad.
08/01/09
08/01/09
Don't you fucking tell me anything about "how to interpret", bastard. You can't even spell your own name properly.
08/01/09
I was agreeing with you.
"You will" as in "one will".
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08/01/09
Somehow the "Thou shalt not kill" deal loses it's punch.
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08/01/09
Just trying to explain the concept.
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08/01/09
How awful.
08/01/09
It's as offensive me saying, "oh well, that's three less queers in Tel Aviv."
Pull your head out of your ass.
08/01/09
And for the record, bashing Christian right figures for their hypocrisy is not the same as advocating murder of innocent human beings. God, you're a fucking idiot.
08/01/09
People who murder in the name of religion don't deserve any tolerance and these people should be stamped out. But the average religious person (oh say, about 4 billion people, give or take a billion) would never murder for any reason.
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08/01/09
I am the member of a religion who's entire history has been one of being victim to discrimination and persecution. I feel that's why I have a natural inborn abhorrence for all things racist and discriminatory; it's kind of etched in my DNA. And this has not created the slightest friction with my religious sensibilities.
08/01/09
At the same time, religion should be a personal matter, and should not spill over into interfering with the lives of those who do not believe. That is what I have a problem with, and it happens all the time.
08/01/09
08/01/09
I could give a rat's ass if you're gay, but you're a fool if you don't think tolerance begins with showing empathy toward another perspective (such as Christians), as backward ass as you might think it is. Because I'm sure you were the first guy who went ape-shit when Prop 8 was upheld.
Bashing Christian right figures is also expressing hate. You might not agree with them, but you see bent on destroying them (if you could). I'm sure you're most sensitive about their intolerance toward homosexuality. Your mentality is just as dangerous and I'm sure that's the first step maniacal Islamic followers go through before they become murderous. It's the seed of destruction.
And I'm curious; if you're an atheist, can you prove that God doesn't exist?
08/01/09
The rest of them can do whatever the hell they please, I DON'T CARE. But if anyone tries to insinuate their lifestyle on me, then yes, I will fight them tooth and nail all the way.
And could I prove God doesn't exist to you? Probably not. But I proved it to myself a long time ago. Unlike some, I'm not here to change other people's ideals.
Just trying to get them to keep them to themselves.
08/01/09
I think the "politically and socially" part of your comment is the linchpin here. It isn't hateful or discriminatory to resist the incursion of fundamentalist religious values on the laws of the country, which are explicitly meant to be separated from religious motive.
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08/02/09
And you are, again and as usual, missing the point. Religion has nothing to do with federal law, and in fact the Constitution specifies that implicitly. Yet somehow it's wormed its way in nevertheless. That is wrong on a level I can't even put into words.
And I DO verbally attack Islam and Judaism when they do the same, but those religions have no input into the lawmaking decisions in this country, which is where my beef is.
And finally, what conservatives never seem to understand is that they CANNOT stop progress. This is going to happen in this country whether you like it or not, so if it bothers you that much, better start packing for Iran.
08/02/09
08/02/09
The mental gymnastics required to make such an argument just boggle the fucking mind.
08/02/09
Alright, bed time!
08/02/09
Also, if it's in your face all the time, you should have no trouble clearly defining the homosexual "agenda" in 100 words or less. Go ahead. We're all ears.
08/02/09
Also, remember when all the black people demanding equal treatment essentially said that they wanted to make everybody black? And when the women said they wanted to make everybody into a woman?
Crazy fucking lunatics, for real.
08/04/09
Take that as you will.
08/01/09