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New York, 12:40 AM
Sat Dec 19
54 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of Nick Denton Nick Denton
    11/18/09

    100 best quotes from The Wire. (Oh how I still miss that show.)

    #tips #video #thewire
     Reply
    Nick Denton was starred Nick Denton was unstarred
    Image of germane germane
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    So, okay, you are comfortable getting your news from multiple "observers" who are not bound by any communal or professional standards of how to report and how to redact or order what they report. Can I just ask: are you also comfortable BEING one of those "observers"? Do you think that the quality of life that a career of web journalism can offer is comparable to that which print journalism offered when free informational digests weren't an option? I'm talking about a living wage, paid vacation, insurance, relative job stability. It seems to me that this concern is also motivating Simon's hostility to the internet as a substitute instead of a supplement.
     Reply
    Cynical Media Bitch promoted this comment germane was starred germane was unstarred
    Image of Motoko Kusanagi Motoko Kusanagi
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    "free to subscribers only"
     Reply
    Motoko Kusanagi was starred Motoko Kusanagi was unstarred
    Image of John Thompson John Thompson
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    While I don't think Simon's Plan to Save Newsmedia is sound, I think his greater point about the difference between blogs and journos is valid.

    I'll cite an example that's being consistently reported on by one of Gawker's many satellite sites, Valleywag. The blog Techcrunch was given leaked documents that are quite embarrassing to Twitter (http://gawker.com/5316432/techcrunch-supresses-its-best-scoops-at-twitters-request), and the response from the tech blogosphere at large to Techcrunch's publishing of the documents has been nearly unanimous in its contempt and outrage over otherwise unremarkable scoop journalism, the sort that one would think ought to be enthusiastically pursued by traditional outlets (Simon's own portrayal of newspapers doesn't seem to give the idea much credence, I have to say).

    This is the exact sort of cozy, incestuous relationship between journalists and public figures that citizen journalism was supposed to do away with. Isn't it troubling that these journalists of the not-so-distant future are running screaming from the things that journalists are supposed to be doing, the things that make the fourth estate "vital to our democracy"? Even if there was a blog niche for investigative journalism that the leaked documents would have been welcomed in, the tech blogs wouldn't have run the story on principle and thus the selective readers who might be most interested in the news would likely never be aware of it. Isn't that bothersome?
     Reply
    The Cajun Boy promoted this comment John Thompson was starred John Thompson was unstarred
    Image of John Thompson John Thompson
    07/22/09

    @John Thompson: Sorry, I found a more relevant Valleywag link that directly addresses the problem: http://gawker.com/5316975/
     Reply
    John Thompson was starred John Thompson was unstarred
    Image of Hunter Walker Hunter Walker
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    I don't entirely get the Simon hate on here. It's hard to get riled up about newspaper publishers setting online sub rates together when news aggregators and blogs have been doing so many questionably legal things with copyrighted content. Also, antitrust laws are intended to prevent businesses from getting too large and newspapers are essentially a failing industry.

    What Simon is proposing might be a violation of antitrust regulations, but newspapers hardly seem to be a threat to people or their competitors.
     Reply
    Hunter Walker was starred Hunter Walker was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    07/22/09

    @hunterw: I honestly feel like a lot of hatred toward aggregators is unfounded, though. Of course there are egregious examples of people posting entire excerpts of news articles entirely without analysis, etc. But the old media people who rail against aggregators act like even linking to the material on their sites is some sort of copyright violation. I'm sorry, but a link, in and of itself, is exactly the same thing as saying to somebody verbally "You can find this in the New York Times! Check it out!" If they intend to turn all suggestions into copyright violations, then they'll need to get rid of their book, movie, and music reviews while they're at it.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of sloanish sloanish
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    God bless you Cajunboy, but you couldn't be more wrong if you were the wrongest. Newspapers have to change, but if they don't change and simply die off, we will all suffer from it. Gosh it was fun, but "free" is fucking us.
     Reply
    The Cajun Boy promoted this comment sloanish was starred sloanish was unstarred
    Image of The Cajun Boy The Cajun Boy
    07/22/09

    @sloanish: Man, I agree. Perhaps I need to go back and add that I agree with the notion that some sort of pay model needs to be introduced. Where I split with Simon is in his ongoing hostility towards the net. It's just so damned tired at this point and kind of painful to be honest with you.
     Reply
    The Cajun Boy was starred The Cajun Boy was unstarred
    Image of Hunter Walker Hunter Walker
    07/22/09

    @The Cajun Boy: I see what you mean here. I think Simon and others tend to lump good blogs that do real reporting in with the aggregators and sites that just comment on news that's already out there. Still, it's hard to fault them for it since web outlets that actually make news are so few and far between.
     Reply
    Hunter Walker was starred Hunter Walker was unstarred
    Image of sloanish sloanish
    07/22/09

    @The Cajun Boy: I hear you. He's definitely not being constructive in his campaign and if he's turning people like you off, he's probably doing just as much harm as good.

    Man, we're fucked. But I guess I already knew that from watching The Wire.
     Reply
    sloanish was starred sloanish was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    07/22/09

    @sloanish: Change is fine, but if they need to break antitrust laws in order to make that change, then they're sort of fucked anyway.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of RandomLunatic RandomLunatic
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    David Simon needs to LET GO. He has found his thing, what he does best. He tells stories. Gripping, gritty, good stories. I'd watch just about anything with his name attached. But he's so thoroughly out of his depth when talking about this kind of thing (for the reasons you pointed out, Cajun, and more) that he comes off diminished, in my mind.

    David Simon, I don't need your punditry based on a p.o.v. that's 20 years out of date. Let go of that side of your brain, man, and just keep telling stories. Jeez.
     Reply
    RandomLunatic was starred RandomLunatic was unstarred
    Image of HarmonyArgeius HarmonyArgeius
    07/22/09

    In reply to David Simon Still Dead-Wrong, Now Encouraging Newspapers to Commit Federal Crimes
    You should include less of Simon's quote. When you include as much as you have he is much more persuasive than you.
     Reply
    skt.smth promoted this comment HarmonyArgeius was starred HarmonyArgeius was unstarred
    Image of skt.smth skt.smth
    07/22/09

    @HarmonyArgeius: Hmm ... well here's what I see in Simon's screed:

    1. Either you define "value" in a black/white way that denies the existence of the internet (and, by extension, the technological realities that must change how we think about this term), or you don't believe in "value" at all.

    2. News publications shouldn't consider any subscription plan other than one which locks away all content behind a pay gate.

    3. News publications which, by the way, have very little leverage these days, should issue ultimatums to wire service consortiums that ultimately don't need them.

    4. News publishers should put together a common legal defense fund presumably so they can sue anybody involved in aggregation, which in Simon's mind probably amounts to anybody who links to a news article in any way.

    5. News publishers should engage in flagrant violation of antitrust laws because it is the only way they can weather the storm. Since they're newspapers, and not, say, pharmaceutical companies, this should be allowed.

    6. Online news outlets don't stand a chance of ever offering good reporting any time in the near future.


    Maybe it's just me, but I don't think there's a good idea in the bunch.
     Reply
    skt.smth was starred skt.smth was unstarred
    Image of VoxPopuli VoxPopuli
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    You overlook one big problem: Anyone who is "reporting" for free has an agenda. Paid journalists have an agenda too, to an extent, even those most fair ones. But no one but a lunatic or person on a mission for would for free.
     Reply
    VoxPopuli was starred VoxPopuli was unstarred
    Image of VoxPopuli VoxPopuli
    05/07/09

    @VoxPopuli: Would WORK for free, I mean. I could use a paid editor right now.
     Reply
    VoxPopuli was starred VoxPopuli was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    superficially engaged careerists -- yes, there were those in the ranks of the chain dailies, getting their tickets punched in east bumfuck nowhere and not giving a shit about anything but the next job on the next stepping stone


    but there are those in every field


    i think it's more like another phase in the industrial revolution, where we find ourselves right now


    a brief history of news:


    millions of years ago: everyone knew everything because the communities were so small and the needs were so urgent


    thousands of years ago: if there was enough surplus to create a caste system, the rulers told the oppressed when they would eat and how much; that was the sum total of news


    400 years ago: the gutenberg revolution and the advent of widespread literacy made the growing educated classes both more informed and more sharply divided from the illiterate; specialization of viewpoints and audiences gives rise to party pamphleteering


    100 years ago: mass media, the birth of the objective style and ad revenues is something brand new


    50 years ago: the peak of this phase


    30 years ago: newspapers start losing their double digit profit margins and start cutting back on costs and quality, beginning their death spiral, which will be speeded up by the internet


    10 years ago: last chance for newspapers


    now: a new style, partisanship and scholarship combined, along the lines of talkingpointsmemo.com is the next best hope for quality; all else is following the mass media down the drain. blogging and bloggers and fierce and committed, but they are like brilliant indie films: gorgeous, ardent, effective but ultimately small

     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of GiuseppeKapish GiuseppeKapish
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    Just out of curiosity, is 'superficially-engaged, careerist professional journalists' some kind of online code for 'professional journalist who actually gets paid for his or her work'? I appreciate that sites like Gawker have a massive vested interest in encouraging the death of paid-for print journalism. But why should journalists work for free, any more than anyone else? And as great as it may be that there are people obsessive enough to hang around civic meetings for hours, unpaid, is there not some benefit, too, in the pathetically old-fashioned concept of trained reporters who know their beat, have a wide range of contacts and possess the technical skills to research, tell, file and/or edit a story? And yes, I should declare an interest: I am a journalist. But thankfully not within 3,000 miles of Manhattan ...
     Reply
    GiuseppeKapish was starred GiuseppeKapish was unstarred
    Image of Owen Thomas Owen Thomas
    05/07/09

    @GiuseppeKapish: I think it's code for "superficially engaged, careerist professional journalists."
     Reply
    Owen Thomas was starred Owen Thomas was unstarred
    Image of Tremonius Tremonius
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    Here's the way I've seen Above-the-Line journalism work. A reporter has an assignment about War Vets and Trauma Residue, say. She goes to interview a victim, who doesn't disappoint. Next, for "another opinion," she consults an organization set up in support of trauma vets. That's the story as it runs.


    It's the bunk. Here's the way the Long Tail of blogging works. Somewhere in that vast sphere there is one at least who has spent a career counseling military vets. He renders a more accurate report than you'll find out in the mainstream.


    Those with actual experience in the trade know of the great gap between what the principals want reported and what actually goes down in the back office. The blogger might be one who interviewed prisoners at Gitmo; the MSM will interview the horrible joke Dohbya and his crew.

     Reply
    Tremonius was starred Tremonius was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    public meetings are often kabuki with the real agenda deals compromises and plans laid out well in advance


    sitting thru the meetings provides the illusion of journalistic coverage without the substance


    that said, something like the poynter foundation is better than a trust

     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of Solomon Grundy Solomon Grundy
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    The San Francisco and New York markets are not good examples of how local online investigative journalism works in general. Does Louisville have its version of A Better Oakland? Does Fargo? (I can't be bothered to fact check that -- because I'm an unpaid blogger getting ready for work).


    One problem with your strangely right-wing free market solution is that even though this kind of volunteer work happens in brilliant little spurts, as a society we can't reliably depend on this particular really, really free market of unpaid work. Huffington's indictments of the MSM are sound (and depressing), but they aren't a good excuse for relying on unpaid citizen journalists to fulfill one of the basic functions of a democracy. It would be like de-funding municipal hospitals and hoping that all those high-minded, naturally caregiving citizens out there would spontaneously replace them. Because, you know, people want to live in a world where we take care of each other. Or something. It's almost minarchist in its radically anti-statist approach to the provision of public goods.

     Reply
    Solomon Grundy was starred Solomon Grundy was unstarred
    Image of Tremonius Tremonius
    05/07/09

    @Solomon Grundy: Hey, it ain't brain surgery, this blogging.
     Reply
    Tremonius was starred Tremonius was unstarred
    Image of DeloresTermite DeloresTermite
    05/07/09

    In reply to David Simon: Dead-Wrong Dinosaur
    The author somehow forgot to include the paragraph from the transcript of David Simon's testimony that follows the one that he isolated above:

    "...You do not see them holding institutions accountable on a daily basis.¶ Why? Because high-end journalism — that which acquires essential information about our government and society in the first place — is a profession; it requires daily, full-time commitment by trained men and women who return to the same beats day in and day out until the best of them know everything with which a given institution is contending. For a relatively brief period in American history — no more than the last fifty years or so — a lot of smart and talented people were paid a living wage and benefits to challenge the unrestrained authority of our institutions and to hold those institutions to task. Modem newspaper reporting was the hardest and in some ways most gratifying job I ever had. I am offended to think that anyone, anywhere believes American institutions as insulated, self-preserving and self-justifying as police departments, school systems, legislatures and chief executives can be held to gathered facts by amateurs pursuing the task without compensation, training or for that matter, sufficient standing to make public officials even care to whom it is they are lying or from whom they are withholding information."
     Reply
    DeloresTermite was starred DeloresTermite was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    05/07/09

    @DeloresTermite: god i want that carved on marble
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
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