"So while the old editor of Vibe moves on to a thing partly founded by Henry Louis Gates, the new editor of Vibe comes from fat ass-featuring mag King."
I prefer to think of it as thick ass-featuring mag King, thank you.
My children, don't be misled by your evil liberal overlords. Satan speaks through them. Freedom isn't free. You are fighting a war on terror. Remember: every time a black person is given a free pass, a terrorist gets a forged Hawaiian birth certificate.
I love black music. Let that be widely known. You see, I bestowed a lot of musical talent on the Africans. And since I run a true meritocracy up here with none of the soft bigotry of low expectations, I do have a couple Korean archangels. Despite what they did at Pearl Harbor and Vietnam, they're hard workers, those people. And also, they have solid family values. Now I do have one black angel somewhere up in here. Smart fellow, that one. But he gets a little arrogant sometimes and forgets to stay humble.
i thought the headline was referring to the comments folks have been leaving on gawker... CB i'm sure you can include an addendum to your post by including some of the doozies trolls/commenters (sometimes i can't tell the difference between the two) have left here...
You know, I really believe that both Crowley and Gates understand that it is in everyone's interest to use this as a case study in how to get past preconceived/prejudged reactions, and build social dialogue that is more real and less stereotyped.
You get these fringe people who want to insist that the only way to view events is through a very jaundiced lens.
In my opinion, there is little to be gained by simply refuting the fringe. Progress can be made though, by reframing those events in ways that reasonable people can understand. That pulls the spotlight away from the fringe groups' seductive extremism, and points to more productive and thoughtful responses to these very real cultural dichotomies.
One of the worst parts of being a conservative that generally supports conservative issues is having the scum-bag lunatic extremists flock to the aid of whatever politician or spokesman is championing my cause. For instance, I am for lower taxes and controlling government spending, but I don't need a bunch of tea-bag wielding nut jobs trying to get media coverage to push that agenda. Just like I'm sure that most of those same tea-baggers weren't exactly thrilled when the Aryan Brotherhood started showing up to help hold signs. I don't know much about Crowley, but I'm sure if he is aware of this "help," he has got to be thinking, "For the love of God people, shut the fuck up."
@ChillbearLatrigue: I feel for you, believe me I do. But I think on some level, you have to realize that the foundational beliefs underlying conservatism are like reef for this species of algae. How could a culture of stay-out-of-my-life and general mistrust of others possibly avoid becoming a breeding ground for this kind of hatred?
@skt.smth: If this phenomenon was exclusive to the Right, I would reluctantly agree with you. However, have you ever seen a large scale protest against the WTO or FTAA? I would consider the anarchist Black Bloc terrorists the Left's version of extremism. What is sad about this is that the otherwise decent people who are protesting seem to do nothing while this group moves about the crowd committing acts of violence and vandalism. There are assholes on both sides of the table.
@ChillbearLatrigue: If that's all you have, the WTO and FTAA, then I think the left is doing a pretty good job of not attracting the loonies. I would far prefer to have an intelligent conversation about the actual issues with someone like you than one of the booger eating morons that seems to always speak for your political party, but that's just not possible because there are so, so many of those booger eating morons, and they're the ones in charge. And that's the difference between the left and the right--the right has allowed the extremists to take over the discussion, whereas the left has not. Until you take back the megaphone, you're going to be run by undereducated, overopinionated mouth breathers like that Palin chick, and the Democrats will stay in power if for no other reason than they look smart and sane in comparison.
@ChillbearLatrigue: But skt.smth's quite perceptive comment is about the nature of the ideas and their role in encouraging nuttery -- not about the general propensity for nuttery inhering in a slice of the population (which I think we can agree is a given).
I might suggest that the Left's equivalent of the Right's debased stay-out-of-my-life ideology might be a version of "All authority is corrupt" or something comparable, thus allowing individual rights to be deployed as a convenient crowbar to vandalize the greater good.
But I have a tough time tying that type of Lefty extremism to nuts whom I actually encounter in real life (never even heard of the "Black Bloc" -- and I live in one of the most liberal jurisdictions in North America). Meanwhile, every day I run into people who think Limbaugh is the only truth-teller there is. So I suggest there's something to skt.smth's thesis that certain ideas are foregrounded by the Right precisely because they entice the kooks so well -- they're ideas designed for kooks.
This constantly puts a thinking conservative in danger of thinking up rational justifications for ideas whose only actual raison d'etre is their appeal to kooks, reactionaries, rejectionists, etc. We on the Left know that feeling too, Chill...but we tend to apply it to products of consumer culture rather than politics. (The Dark Knight, anyone? Camille Paglia on Madonna? Every criticial theorist on the Matrix trilogy?)
@misslinda: I could come up with more varying examples of left extremism. For instance, the Earth Liberation Front, Code Pink, the Black Panthers, certain members of PETA, Army of the Twelve Monkeys, etc. (All right, I put the last one in to make sure you're paying attention). I would raise the point that the reason that you don't hear from the more annoying and sensationalistic voices from the left is because they actually hold most of the top positions of power. The news organizations are already covering Obama, Pelosi and Reid. Why would they need to seek commentary by Michael Moore and Janeane Garofolo? When the Republicans were in power, you saw more attention being paid to liberal personalities. Incidentally, these are the people that I consider booger eating morons in your party. Thanks for the off-handed compliment about my own rationality. I take them where I can get them. Consider the compliment returned.
@skahammer: I think your right. In rereading the skt. smith's comment, he may have been talking about the type of moron that the Republican Party attracts as opposed to making it seem that the RIght has a monopoly on extremist morons. The Black Bloc isn't so much an actual organization as a name given to the people that show up at massive protests with the specific purpose of engaging in criminal activity. What separates them from the rest of the crowd is that they usually dress in black, wear masks, bring weapons and other means of destruction, etc.
In this case, Wikipedia's explanation will suffice.
@ChillbearLatrigue: One of the worst parts of being a Nazi who generally supports fascist issues is having the scumbag lunatic extremists flock to the aid of whatever politician is championing my cause. For instance, I am for racial purity and militarily superior homeland, but I don't need a bunch of black-flag-wielding nut jobs trying to get media coverage to push that agenda...
That's how I read your post. Isn't there a proverb about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas? Still, I admire your resistance to rethinking your philosophy in view of the fact that it's shared by "lunatic extremists." Nothing says "born conservative" like a stubborn refusal to question one's own immutable convictions in the face of all reason and empirical evidence. This is why liberals still lose despite being in the numerical majority in this country: Their too-rational willingness to consider alternate viewpoints to their own. Conservatives waste no time with that wimpy, elitist self-doubt, and that's why I expect us to be living under the Palin administration in 2012 ... and then, god help us all, every one (even the conservatives) (see, there I go again with my liberal wimpiness!).
@antisocialite: Once upon a time, all of the adults that play on this website decided to quit bandying about the term "Nazi" like it was some sort of playground taunt because it minimizes the horrors of the Holocaust. You obviously didn't get the memo, but I'm not in the censorship business, so I will move on.
You can interpret my post anyway you like, but if you're going to make statements inferring that I am for policies that promote racial purity, I'd at least like an example thrown in with all of your noise. I'm sure you're already aware of this, but it's a little hard to find a boutique party that matches every one of my beliefs. Even if something like this did exist, I doubt that it would wield any power in our form of representative government. For almost every issue that we discuss there are two major schools of thought. The assholes of this country are going to line up on one side or the other. For instance, if I believe in the right for citizens to have guns under certain circumstances, I am going to have the people who believe that every person in the country has a God given right to arm themselves with Stinger missiles lining up on my side, even though that's a very distant extreme from my position. Consequently, if you believe that we should curb emissions to stop global warming, you are going to have people that think that it's all right to blow up an Exxon to push that agenda lining up on your side. However, if you ever catch me saying that I support an agenda of racial purity anywhere, I will post an apology and terminate my account on this site.
I normally wouldn't encourage your rhetoric, but since your twisted reasoning was a direct attack on me, I thought that it was best that I should respond.
As far as the other idiot who responded to this thread, I will not approve his comment. Someone else can if they want, but I am curious as to why anyone would want to punch CajunBoy in the nuts? I can understand it in my case.
@antisocialite: As a hard-headed liberal, I sense an opportunity here.
I'll put down $600 on the-field-minus-Palin, and give you 3-to-1 odds. Do you feel strongly enough about your views to bet $200 on a Palin Administration taking office in January 2013?
@skahammer: She won't even get the nomination. The last time that you see her will be at the RNC as a guest speaker. After that she will fall into relative obscurity.
@ChillbearLatrigue: This convo is getting a little too frivolous for my taste. Can this here Obama voter left of Barry on many issues, who also enormously enjoys the Hitch and Kyle Smith's NYP columns, ask a serious question?
Who do you think would be more fun to party with--the xtreme right wing nutters or the ELF freaks?
@ChillbearLatrigue: Not buying it. You never saw the Black Panthers or the PETA crew take the mic at an Obama/Biden rally because the fringe freak-show left have their individual causes that they fight for, but they know better than to try to force it upon the general liberal population. The neo-conservative-nutjob right, however, don't know better. Maybe it's a lack of education, or maybe it's just that the religious right (which IMO produces the highest number of whackjobs) feel that it is their mission from Jeebus to do just that. It's the whole missionary mentality--they're on a mission from Praise The Lord to get their people into power. The liberals just don't do that. Sure, they have their crusades, but they don't mix crusades with mainstream politics. As a result, the Democrats come across as sane and intelligent, and the Republicans come across as bigoted knuckle-draggers because that's who's yelling the loudest on Fox News.
@ChillbearLatrigue: No, I didn't get the memo, nor would I have paid attention if I did. You assume I'm engaging in some light hyperbole when I compare Conservatism to Fascism, like "Oh, Republicans are Nazis, ha ha ha, now pass me the brie and let's see what's on PBS." In fact I'm deadly serious. I believe, fully and completely, that if given the opportunity, the conservative party in this country would not hesitate to re-introduce chattel slavery for African-Americans, deny women the right to vote or own property, make profits off child labor, deny workers the right to organize for better wages, and yes, even conduct mass murder of undesirables, whether gays, drug users, or even Jews. The reason I think this? Because at one time or another conservatives did all these things, not only cheerfully but aggressively and self-righteously, until liberals forced them to stop. I believe that every aspect of life that makes our current society a decent place to live began as a liberal movement that was fought to the last breath by conservatives: I'm talking about civil rights, worker protection, the extension of the franchise to blacks and women, etc. I believe that the conservative vision of what society "should" be is a nightmarish hell that every person of conscience is obligated to fight against to their dying day. Am I getting carried away? I would admit that I were if the danger weren't so severe.
I believe you when you say that you don't personally support any program of racial purity. But I think you're fooling yourself if you think you can ally yourself with the current conservative movement and not be associated with racism, homophobia, and a general murderous and violent hatred of all who are not "right living" and "right thinking," as defined by the narrowest and most ignorant of straight, white Christian principles, because whether you like it or not, that is what American conservatism has become.
@skahammer: Well I've already lost my job thanks to Republican economic policies, so I'm not really in a position to risk losing any more money on a Republican, even if my loss were the nation's gain. But if she she does lose, I'll buy you an ice cream sandwich!
@misslinda: I definitely think you have identified the root of the problem for the Repubs - the religious right. I used to work for a large Christian company years ago (I was brought up Catholic, but am pretty much Agnostic). There were morning prayers, etc. This was during the Bush administration. We would pray for Bush, unborn babies, etc. I was secretly a registered Democrat living in sin with my boyfriend at the time. My co-workers were the nicest, most helpful people. The most educated? Enlightened? No. Alot of them were former burnouts who conveniently found Jesus AFTER they had all their fun/ children out of wedlock. They spend all their time reading the Bible and that series about the end times, whatever it is called - nothing else. I wouldn't call the religious right "dumb" - they just have a one track mind. Politics isn't their thing - God is. But what is scary, is that they have had a lot of political sway. The Repubs were smart to exploit them in the wake of the Clinton sex scandal years, when people were tired of hearing about stained dresses - but I think we're having an adverse reaction to the religious right now.
Calling Repubs "racist" and "Nazis" is very misguided. Anyone with the intelligence and maturity level of an adult rather than a third grader would know that very bad people exist on both sides. Being a racist has nothing to do with politics - it just gives a lunatic a platform to align themselves with, regardless of how false that is.
I don't align myself with either party anymore - I fall to the liberal side on some issues, and to the conservative side on others. That doesn't make me a nazi or a racist, that just makes me an informed voter when I do ultimately cast my vote.
@antisocialite: Risk- and sacrifice-averse, huh? Letting your mouth write checks that your butt can't cash? Maybe I should stop worrying about the Repubs and instead wonder about the liberals I choose to ally myself with.
Okay, kidding. But let me be presidentially clear about this: Tarring Chillbear for the sins of Limbaugh, Savage, Buchanan et al is a catastrophic logic fail. As long as you accept that folks possess some level of individuality, then you have to engage with the ideas that they actually espouse -- not the ideas of folks they might occasionally get direct mail solicitations from.
I don't make the rules, but I do try to follow them and this is one of the keys. Chill ain't David Duke. I suspect he's more Milton Friedman than anything.
@blonderedhead: I agree with most of what you say, but I don't think it's misguided to liken Republicans to Nazis. First of all, as I said in my reply to Chillbear, I mean it very literally. Second, it's not the same as saying that conservatives have a monopoly on evil. I agree, bad people exist on all sides of the political spectrum. My point is that conservatism is, at its root, founded in the hoarding of all political power, money, rights, etc., to a select group (whether it be whites, men, straights, Christians, whatever), to the very pointed and, if necessary, violent exclusion of all who do not fit in to that group, which is in essence no different from German-style National Socialism. In other words, in my opinion, racism is not an unpleasant byproduct of some of the more fervent followers of conservatism--it's part of its very essence. You say the conservative Christians you worked with were very nice people. I'm sure they were -- I have some conservative Christians in my own extended family, and they're all total sweethearts -- but I wonder how sweet they would have been if you had revealed yourself to them as, say, an unwed mother, a drug user, or someone involved in a biracial relationship, or, god forbid, all three? They might have continued to be sweet to your face--most people are nice when deprived of the safe anonymity of Internet commenting--but I wonder how long your employment would have lasted, or if any of them would have reconsidered their positions on, say, unwed mothers because of their acquaintance with you?
@skahammer: "As long as you accept that folks possess some level of individuality, then you have to engage with the ideas that they actually espouse -- not the ideas of folks they might occasionally get direct mail solicitations from."
Sorry, but no. I choose not to engage in the ideas they espouse. I'm tired of giving people a pass. Conservatism is a philosophy grounded entirely in selfishness, and entirely NOT in trying to make the country a better place for all. What you're basically saying is, "This guy isn't as selfish as some conservatives, so give him a break."
But the thing is, I say no. No more breaks. Sorry. I have no more room in my heart for forgiveness of conservative principles. That's my position, and if Chillbear or any other "light Republican" wants to blame someone for it, let them blame the racists, homophobes, etc. who have turned the republican party into a hate group, and in doing so have forced me to oppose them absolutely. (Which is too bad, because despite what you may think of my comments, I'm not actually a knee-jerk liberal. For example, I think Prof. Gates is probably mostly to blame for this whole sordid incident, for committing the rookie mistake of mouthing off to the cops. Which is something everyone should know not to do, regardless of the righteousness of their position.)
@antisocialite: Please kindly let go. The lack of paragraphs and the incessant comparisons of the Republican party to the Third Reich ruling party are hurting my brain.
You keep promoting the kind of fallacies you can drive a Panzer division through.
Just in case you can't tell, the Nazis rose to power (on unrigged popular vote) in PRECISE OPPOSITION to the German "conservative parties" of the time. They were the motherbleeping reactionary, revolution, here we come! party.
To compare the ideology of the Reps, with its emphasis on "pull yourself by the bootstraps" and individual enterprise to that of the Nazi party--which had a SOCIALIST platform, ie, the Vaterland will take care of y'all who were brutally beat down and humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles post WWI, and as a consequence, thoroughly economically FUCKED through the 20s/30s--is absurd.
Then and now, it's always been "the economy, stupid!"
@misslinda: There are a lot of posts and points so if I get these mixed up and reply to the wrong person for a comment that someone else made, forgiveness please. You talk about taking the microphone away from the religious right of the party as though anyone has the right to silence the speech of another. Also, you and others act as though the Republicans nominated Palin to run for President. She was McCain's choice as a running mate. That it was a mistake is apparent by the fact that he lost, but McCain's positions are generally to the left of much of the party.
@antisocialite: "I believe, fully and completely, that if given the opportunity, the conservative party in this country would not hesitate to re-introduce chattel slavery for African-Americans, deny women the right to vote or own property, make profits off child labor, deny workers the right to organize for better wages, and yes, even conduct mass murder of undesirables, whether gays, drug users, or even Jews." Then instead of being just not-funny, you're insane. Parties and people evolve. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, but he was not a conservative in his time.
In reference to my lying in bed with homophobes, etc. I support gay marriage. Actually, I really support the elimination of government involvement in the institution of marriage. However, social issues are not the only thing that I factor into my party affiliation. For instance, we passed an $800 billion spending package six months ago, spent less than 25% and now the liberals are suggesting that we need another one. The liberals are in a rush to jam through a healthcare bill that the American people haven't even gotten a glimpse of. The Democratic house and administration passed the one trillion dollar deficit mark faster than at any other period in our history. You don't get to tell me which issues I get to put at the top of my priority list. I just don't believe that everyone will be comforted if we are all sitting in the dark fighting over food, but anyone can get married or legally obtain an abortion.
Incidentally, I'm not asking for your forgiveness. In fact, I don't place nearly as much importance on your opinion ad you do. You get one vote just like I do. I'm going to work on trying to get candidates in my party who are concerned about the things on which I focus. By the way, I might have voted for a Democrat this campaign had you not foisted two extreme liberals upon us. I have crossed party lines before. As it turns out you didn't need my vote, but I can tell you that I know moderates who voted for Obama that aren't happy about a lot of what he is doing.
@skahammer: I appreciate that you are one of those people who see something other than the letter attached to their name. Milton Friedman? Bad ass!
@ChillbearLatrigue: I wasn't actually offering my forgiveness, nor presuming to tell you what issues you should care about. And why on earth would I ever expect you to value my opinion as highly as I do? Who am I to you? No one. I'm simply a guy who hates conservatism in general and the current Republican party in particular. But insane? I don't think so. Do you really believe that Sarah Palin would feel the slightest hesitation if they felt they had a real opportunity to sign an act making homosexuality a capital crime? Really? Do you really think Dick Cheney wouldn't be happy if he could ban nonwhites from running for office? Do you really think that not a single Southern Republican voter has ever expressed a nostalgic regret for the lost days of slavery?... if so, I can only say I hope you're right, and good luck with trying to find reasonable, responsible candidates for your party. I mean that with absolute sincerity: Good luck.
@antisocialite: Do you really believe that Sarah Palin would feel the slightest hesitation if they felt they had a real opportunity to sign an act making homosexuality a capital crime? I don't have enough information to rule on this one. I won't be voting for her either way.
Do you really think Dick Cheney wouldn't be happy if he could ban nonwhites from running for office? I actually have never really viewed Cheney as a racist. I know that he does support same sex marriages. This could be because his daughter is a lesbian, but I have never known him to be outwardly racist.
Do you really think that not a single Southern Republican voter has ever expressed a nostalgic regret for the lost days of slavery? As a Southern Republican voter I can assure you that I don't think that there is anything nostalgic about slavery. I actually am proud that the country elected an African American President. I'm not thrilled with his policies, but that aspect of the election was inspiring to me.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Acts of vandalism, yes. Acts of violence, though? And I'm sorry, but the anarchists weren't showing up at Obama rallies and shouting stuff to the effect that McCain should be assassinated, or that he's a ... well, what would be the insult ... that he's a "secret Mormon"?
The bottom line is that the fringe of the left-wing is actually a fringe. They don't take part in the mainstream debate, and they have essentially no voice in it (whether that is a good thing or not is an entirely different topic). Unfortunately, the right-wing's lunatics are and have been given a voice, most recently with this whole "tea party" BS that was planned and advocated for by a good number of mainstream conservatives, many of whom are actually elected politicians. Next time you see Obama stumping for an anarchist rally, you can play the "both sides are the same" card, but until then, you need to put that one back in your pocket.
@ChillbearLatrigue: Nobody has a monopoly on extremist morons, but to act like there's anywhere near an equivalence, in terms of the extent to which the left and right tolerate/include their extremist morons is, well, moronic. Ever since the "southern strategy" took root as a mainstay in GOP elections, conservatives have been far more welcoming toward racists and bigots. It doesn't hurt that the message of conservatism is essentially one that advocates retiring from the larger community into a more self-sufficient, do-it-on-your-own-and-sink-with-your-own-ship world of individualism. This is precisely the kind of world that racists and bigots want to live in ... one in which they never have to deal with "the other," and as a result they become socially isolated and develop vile, unfounded notions about those who differ from them.
Wasn't one of the main scholarly explanations of why America voted Bush 2 into office the second time around, the fact that he seemed just so.. much more fun than John Kerry?
Here's Kerry with his blameless record, and reasonable rhetoric, grafted onto a stick-in-the-mud attitude. And there's Bush, with his frat-boy chuckle, retarded jokes, AA-rehabbed persona and obvious disdain for anything intellectual or highfalutin'. (Even though he was technically American royalty! Distantly related to the Windsors, no less! This guy was/is no more of a Texas hick than I am, as an Eastern Euro, related to Elizabeth Báthory.)
09/09/09
I prefer to think of it as thick ass-featuring mag King, thank you.
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I love black music. Let that be widely known. You see, I bestowed a lot of musical talent on the Africans. And since I run a true meritocracy up here with none of the soft bigotry of low expectations, I do have a couple Korean archangels. Despite what they did at Pearl Harbor and Vietnam, they're hard workers, those people. And also, they have solid family values. Now I do have one black angel somewhere up in here. Smart fellow, that one. But he gets a little arrogant sometimes and forgets to stay humble.
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More than one cop I have listened to this weekend has said they should have shot him.
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You get these fringe people who want to insist that the only way to view events is through a very jaundiced lens.
In my opinion, there is little to be gained by simply refuting the fringe. Progress can be made though, by reframing those events in ways that reasonable people can understand. That pulls the spotlight away from the fringe groups' seductive extremism, and points to more productive and thoughtful responses to these very real cultural dichotomies.
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I might suggest that the Left's equivalent of the Right's debased stay-out-of-my-life ideology might be a version of "All authority is corrupt" or something comparable, thus allowing individual rights to be deployed as a convenient crowbar to vandalize the greater good.
But I have a tough time tying that type of Lefty extremism to nuts whom I actually encounter in real life (never even heard of the "Black Bloc" -- and I live in one of the most liberal jurisdictions in North America). Meanwhile, every day I run into people who think Limbaugh is the only truth-teller there is. So I suggest there's something to skt.smth's thesis that certain ideas are foregrounded by the Right precisely because they entice the kooks so well -- they're ideas designed for kooks.
This constantly puts a thinking conservative in danger of thinking up rational justifications for ideas whose only actual raison d'etre is their appeal to kooks, reactionaries, rejectionists, etc. We on the Left know that feeling too, Chill...but we tend to apply it to products of consumer culture rather than politics. (The Dark Knight, anyone? Camille Paglia on Madonna? Every criticial theorist on the Matrix trilogy?)
07/27/09
@skahammer: I think your right. In rereading the skt. smith's comment, he may have been talking about the type of moron that the Republican Party attracts as opposed to making it seem that the RIght has a monopoly on extremist morons. The Black Bloc isn't so much an actual organization as a name given to the people that show up at massive protests with the specific purpose of engaging in criminal activity. What separates them from the rest of the crowd is that they usually dress in black, wear masks, bring weapons and other means of destruction, etc.
In this case, Wikipedia's explanation will suffice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc
07/27/09
That's how I read your post. Isn't there a proverb about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas? Still, I admire your resistance to rethinking your philosophy in view of the fact that it's shared by "lunatic extremists." Nothing says "born conservative" like a stubborn refusal to question one's own immutable convictions in the face of all reason and empirical evidence. This is why liberals still lose despite being in the numerical majority in this country: Their too-rational willingness to consider alternate viewpoints to their own. Conservatives waste no time with that wimpy, elitist self-doubt, and that's why I expect us to be living under the Palin administration in 2012 ... and then, god help us all, every one (even the conservatives) (see, there I go again with my liberal wimpiness!).
07/27/09
You can interpret my post anyway you like, but if you're going to make statements inferring that I am for policies that promote racial purity, I'd at least like an example thrown in with all of your noise. I'm sure you're already aware of this, but it's a little hard to find a boutique party that matches every one of my beliefs. Even if something like this did exist, I doubt that it would wield any power in our form of representative government. For almost every issue that we discuss there are two major schools of thought. The assholes of this country are going to line up on one side or the other. For instance, if I believe in the right for citizens to have guns under certain circumstances, I am going to have the people who believe that every person in the country has a God given right to arm themselves with Stinger missiles lining up on my side, even though that's a very distant extreme from my position. Consequently, if you believe that we should curb emissions to stop global warming, you are going to have people that think that it's all right to blow up an Exxon to push that agenda lining up on your side. However, if you ever catch me saying that I support an agenda of racial purity anywhere, I will post an apology and terminate my account on this site.
I normally wouldn't encourage your rhetoric, but since your twisted reasoning was a direct attack on me, I thought that it was best that I should respond.
As far as the other idiot who responded to this thread, I will not approve his comment. Someone else can if they want, but I am curious as to why anyone would want to punch CajunBoy in the nuts? I can understand it in my case.
07/27/09
I'll put down $600 on the-field-minus-Palin, and give you 3-to-1 odds. Do you feel strongly enough about your views to bet $200 on a Palin Administration taking office in January 2013?
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@antisocialite:
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Who do you think would be more fun to party with--the xtreme right wing nutters or the ELF freaks?
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I believe you when you say that you don't personally support any program of racial purity. But I think you're fooling yourself if you think you can ally yourself with the current conservative movement and not be associated with racism, homophobia, and a general murderous and violent hatred of all who are not "right living" and "right thinking," as defined by the narrowest and most ignorant of straight, white Christian principles, because whether you like it or not, that is what American conservatism has become.
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Calling Repubs "racist" and "Nazis" is very misguided. Anyone with the intelligence and maturity level of an adult rather than a third grader would know that very bad people exist on both sides. Being a racist has nothing to do with politics - it just gives a lunatic a platform to align themselves with, regardless of how false that is.
I don't align myself with either party anymore - I fall to the liberal side on some issues, and to the conservative side on others. That doesn't make me a nazi or a racist, that just makes me an informed voter when I do ultimately cast my vote.
07/27/09
Just like Johnny Thunders, dears.
07/27/09
Okay, kidding. But let me be presidentially clear about this: Tarring Chillbear for the sins of Limbaugh, Savage, Buchanan et al is a catastrophic logic fail. As long as you accept that folks possess some level of individuality, then you have to engage with the ideas that they actually espouse -- not the ideas of folks they might occasionally get direct mail solicitations from.
I don't make the rules, but I do try to follow them and this is one of the keys. Chill ain't David Duke. I suspect he's more Milton Friedman than anything.
07/27/09
07/27/09
Sorry, but no. I choose not to engage in the ideas they espouse. I'm tired of giving people a pass. Conservatism is a philosophy grounded entirely in selfishness, and entirely NOT in trying to make the country a better place for all. What you're basically saying is, "This guy isn't as selfish as some conservatives, so give him a break."
But the thing is, I say no. No more breaks. Sorry. I have no more room in my heart for forgiveness of conservative principles. That's my position, and if Chillbear or any other "light Republican" wants to blame someone for it, let them blame the racists, homophobes, etc. who have turned the republican party into a hate group, and in doing so have forced me to oppose them absolutely. (Which is too bad, because despite what you may think of my comments, I'm not actually a knee-jerk liberal. For example, I think Prof. Gates is probably mostly to blame for this whole sordid incident, for committing the rookie mistake of mouthing off to the cops. Which is something everyone should know not to do, regardless of the righteousness of their position.)
07/27/09
You keep promoting the kind of fallacies you can drive a Panzer division through.
Just in case you can't tell, the Nazis rose to power (on unrigged popular vote) in PRECISE OPPOSITION to the German "conservative parties" of the time. They were the motherbleeping reactionary, revolution, here we come! party.
To compare the ideology of the Reps, with its emphasis on "pull yourself by the bootstraps" and individual enterprise to that of the Nazi party--which had a SOCIALIST platform, ie, the Vaterland will take care of y'all who were brutally beat down and humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles post WWI, and as a consequence, thoroughly economically FUCKED through the 20s/30s--is absurd.
Then and now, it's always been "the economy, stupid!"
07/27/09
@antisocialite: "I believe, fully and completely, that if given the opportunity, the conservative party in this country would not hesitate to re-introduce chattel slavery for African-Americans, deny women the right to vote or own property, make profits off child labor, deny workers the right to organize for better wages, and yes, even conduct mass murder of undesirables, whether gays, drug users, or even Jews." Then instead of being just not-funny, you're insane. Parties and people evolve. Thomas Jefferson owned slaves, but he was not a conservative in his time.
In reference to my lying in bed with homophobes, etc. I support gay marriage. Actually, I really support the elimination of government involvement in the institution of marriage. However, social issues are not the only thing that I factor into my party affiliation. For instance, we passed an $800 billion spending package six months ago, spent less than 25% and now the liberals are suggesting that we need another one. The liberals are in a rush to jam through a healthcare bill that the American people haven't even gotten a glimpse of. The Democratic house and administration passed the one trillion dollar deficit mark faster than at any other period in our history. You don't get to tell me which issues I get to put at the top of my priority list. I just don't believe that everyone will be comforted if we are all sitting in the dark fighting over food, but anyone can get married or legally obtain an abortion.
Incidentally, I'm not asking for your forgiveness. In fact, I don't place nearly as much importance on your opinion ad you do. You get one vote just like I do. I'm going to work on trying to get candidates in my party who are concerned about the things on which I focus. By the way, I might have voted for a Democrat this campaign had you not foisted two extreme liberals upon us. I have crossed party lines before. As it turns out you didn't need my vote, but I can tell you that I know moderates who voted for Obama that aren't happy about a lot of what he is doing.
@skahammer: I appreciate that you are one of those people who see something other than the letter attached to their name. Milton Friedman? Bad ass!
07/27/09
07/27/09
Do you really think Dick Cheney wouldn't be happy if he could ban nonwhites from running for office? I actually have never really viewed Cheney as a racist. I know that he does support same sex marriages. This could be because his daughter is a lesbian, but I have never known him to be outwardly racist.
Do you really think that not a single Southern Republican voter has ever expressed a nostalgic regret for the lost days of slavery? As a Southern Republican voter I can assure you that I don't think that there is anything nostalgic about slavery. I actually am proud that the country elected an African American President. I'm not thrilled with his policies, but that aspect of the election was inspiring to me.
07/27/09
The ELF freaks take themselves far too seriously, while the extreme right - takes partying far too seriously. That's why they lost in 2006 & 2008.
*punch* *punch* *punch* *punch*
07/28/09
The bottom line is that the fringe of the left-wing is actually a fringe. They don't take part in the mainstream debate, and they have essentially no voice in it (whether that is a good thing or not is an entirely different topic). Unfortunately, the right-wing's lunatics are and have been given a voice, most recently with this whole "tea party" BS that was planned and advocated for by a good number of mainstream conservatives, many of whom are actually elected politicians. Next time you see Obama stumping for an anarchist rally, you can play the "both sides are the same" card, but until then, you need to put that one back in your pocket.
07/28/09
07/28/09
Wasn't one of the main scholarly explanations of why America voted Bush 2 into office the second time around, the fact that he seemed just so.. much more fun than John Kerry?
Here's Kerry with his blameless record, and reasonable rhetoric, grafted onto a stick-in-the-mud attitude. And there's Bush, with his frat-boy chuckle, retarded jokes, AA-rehabbed persona and obvious disdain for anything intellectual or highfalutin'. (Even though he was technically American royalty! Distantly related to the Windsors, no less! This guy was/is no more of a Texas hick than I am, as an Eastern Euro, related to Elizabeth Báthory.)