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New York, 4:43 AM
Wed Dec 9
45 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of ronniedobbs ronniedobbs
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Why is this the hill you want to die on, Hamilton? I mean, as SarahHeartburn, MissNormaDesmond and others have pointed out, these are not simply "rhetorical flourishes" -- they are active calls to enact violence against one of the most vulnerable groups in one of the most murderous places in the whole entire world.

    And I personally am of the belief that we can judge and impugn an "artists" for his politics when he puts them out there with the express purpose of inciting crimes against humanity. Crimes in which HE HIMSELF is alleged to have participated.

    This is not the guy to have a higher-brow conversation about. At all. Jesus.

    Then there's this:

    "One of Jamaica's most famous dancehall singers, Buju Banton, is being sought by police in Jamaica in connection with a homophobic attack on a group of gay men.

    Mr Banton was allegedly one of a group of about a dozen armed men who forced their way into a house in Kingston on the morning of June 24 and beat up the occupants while shouting homophobic insults, according to the victims.

    At least two people were taken to the hospital. Mr Banton - whose song Boom Boom Bye Bye threatens gay men with a "gunshot in ah head" - was identified by several witnesses and is wanted for questioning.

    "There is a pattern of police indifference to attacks on gay men in Jamaica that goes far beyond what Buju Banton is alleged to have done in this case," said Rebecca Schleiser of Human Rights Watch, who has spoken to several of the victims. "Neither his fame nor the stigma attached to the victims should stand in the way of a full, fair and complete police investigation."

    Peter Tatchell, of Outrage, said: "This substantiates our claims of the links between murder music and actual physical violence against gays and lesbians. Critics of the campaign [to stop murder music] have said that the homophobic content of his lyrics is 'ironic' or just 'fantasy'.

    "Now the star is wanted for a very real violent incident."

    Last month, concern that a concert in London by another dancehall favourite, Beenie Man, could incite violence against gays led to its cancellation. One of Beenie Man's songs contains the lyrics: "I'm a dreaming of a new Jamaica, come to execute all the gays."

    Concern at the climate of homophobia in Jamaica has intensified in recent months following the murder of the country's most prominent gay activist, Brian Williamson.

    Mr Williamson, a co-founder of Jamaican Forum for Lesbians, All-sexuals and Gays (J-Flag), was found with his throat cut and multiple stab wounds to his neck and face.

    Jamaican law makes any act of physical intimacy between men punishable by jail, with the possibility of hard labour. A recent poll found 96% of Jamaicans were opposed to moves to legalise homosexual relations. Several gay Jamaicans have successfully claimed asylum in Britain on grounds of homophobia."

    [www.guardian.co.uk]
     Reply
    Edited by ronniedobbs at 12/08/09 9:40 PM ronniedobbs was starred ronniedobbs was unstarred
    Image of John Thompson John Thompson
    12/08/09

    @ronniedobbs: Your tirade is overlooking a crucial element of this story - those jammin' beats.

    If beating up gays is the secret to making such wondrous dancehall bangers, isn't that a small price to pay? That somebody would sully such beautiful music with their armchair moralizing, that is the real crime here.
     Reply
    ronniedobbs promoted this comment Edited by John Thompson at 12/08/09 10:23 PM John Thompson was starred John Thompson was unstarred
    Image of IpsoFacto IpsoFacto
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Well I was still more pissed off when Soulja Boy got nominated for a Grammy.
     Reply
    IpsoFacto was starred IpsoFacto was unstarred
    Image of iplaudius iplaudius
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    It’s up to you to decide whether to use your dollars or, say, your platform as a blogger to promote artists who preach violence against gay people.

    I’m not comfortable giving money and cultural capital to people who preach hate and violence.
     Reply
    iplaudius was starred iplaudius was unstarred
    Image of Botswana Meat Commission FC Botswana Meat Commission FC
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Did Collie Buddz come out this year? That's GOTTA be the one if so.
     Reply
    Botswana Meat Commission FC was starred Botswana Meat Commission FC was unstarred
    Image of Aatom Aatom
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    This line of reasoning might work with someone like Prince, an actual musical genius who just happens to be a religious wackadoo going door-to-door to peddle whatever harmless lovesexy message jehovah sent to him.

    But I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one, Hamilton, and assume that this is some sort of meta-ironic Gawker thing with layers of humor that I am not sophisticated enough to understand, because "jammin" is such a stupid, piss-poor excuse for liking SOMEONE WHO ACTIVELY USES HIS CELEBRITY TO ADVOCATE THE MURDER OF HOMOSEXUALS.

    I mean, seriously, wtf? Please tell me this is a joke I don't understand. Because I honestly thought you were more intelligent than this.

    This is the first, and hopefully last time that I find caps-lock necessary on this site.
     Reply
    Aatom was starred Aatom was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    By pretending to be discussing two separate issues, this post actually conflates them. Only an idiot would say his political views make him a bad musician. The quality of the music isn't the question. Either it's sensible to protest when people support blatant, murderous hate in their art or it's not, but it's not dependent on the quality of the art. You seem to be saying that it would be all right to protest this guy if his music sucked, but since it doesn't, everyone should clam up.

    The man isn't just using the occasional homophobic slur, and he isn't voicing understandable rage against people who oppress him -- he wants to kill faggots the same way the Klan wanted to kill niggers, because he's hateful. It's sad that this is what he's devoting his undeniable talent to, but if you're telling me that because of the existence of that talent I should turn a deaf ear to the substance of what he's saying, you've lost me. Because you see faggots actually get killed. If you want to ignore that, that's your karma, but don't expect me to go along with you. And don't expect me not to be disgusted by the idea of celebrating the music and giving it prizes. No matter how "jammin'" it may be.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    12/08/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: I don't know why that looks like a link but doesn't work, but here's the URL: [en.wikipedia.org]
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of Spirit Fingers Spirit Fingers
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    redacted. Cause well, damn Buju.
     Reply
    Edited by Spirit Fingers at 12/08/09 6:22 PM Spirit Fingers was starred Spirit Fingers was unstarred
    Image of AndPreciousLittleofThat AndPreciousLittleofThat
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Where is Tipper Gore? I'm pretty sure we already went through this kind of thing with Ice-T quite some time ago, except with cops in place of gays.

    Mr. Banton has rights to both free speech and artistic license, but the price of those rights is that he also has to recognize the countervaling right to vigorously protest what he says.

    Personally, I'm disgusted by the sentiments displayed towards gays and women in dancehall culture. But I also have every right to put out a mixtape in which I lay out the numerous and detailed humiliations Mr. Banton will suffer at the hands of the Hell's Angels, Halsted Street chapter.
     Reply
    AndPreciousLittleofThat was starred AndPreciousLittleofThat was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12/08/09

    @AndPreciousLittleofThat: Tipper Gore wanted to outright censor that music. GLAAD is just saying please don't give the guy a Grammy.

    Also, there is a long history of minorities suffering at the hands of police abuse. This is just a guy who hates gays for no apparent reason other than they are gay. I think both have the right to sing about these things if they want, but the former seems like a worthier form of expression.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of FormerEnglishMajor FormerEnglishMajor
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Trying to imagine a Christian rock band, in the middle of a show, saying black people, or Hispanics, or Jews, are evil. Would they get a Grammy?
     Reply
    FormerEnglishMajor was starred FormerEnglishMajor was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/08/09

    @FormerEnglishMajor: Straw man argument. All Christian rock is unlistenable... of course, ironically, that makes it perfect for the Grammys.
     Reply
    MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of Hamilton Nolan Hamilton Nolan
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    YES BUJU IS JAMMIN. Also Ty Cobb was a great baseball-playing racist.
     Reply
    Hamilton Nolan was starred Hamilton Nolan was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/08/09

    @Hamilton Nolan: If only Walt Disney were alive to make an animated musical about Ty Cobb featuring songs by Buju...
     Reply
    Edited by MyNameIsChris at 12/08/09 5:21 PM MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of Lucky Lucky
    12/08/09

    @Hamilton Nolan: But was Ty Cobb screaming racial slurs from second base?
     Reply
    Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred
    Image of Hamilton Nolan Hamilton Nolan
    12/08/09

    @Lucky: Of course! That was one of his best moves.
     Reply
    Hamilton Nolan was starred Hamilton Nolan was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    12/08/09

    @Lucky: Hell yes, and fucking a hooker and drinking a whole goddamn bottle of whiskey at the same time, too.
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of Lucky Lucky
    12/08/09

    @Hamilton, @lostarchitect: I've been trying to come up with a reply but I can't stop giggling.

    EDIT: If you care, it's in my reply to Atilla below.
     Reply
    Edited by Lucky at 12/08/09 5:53 PM Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/08/09

    @lostarchitect: He's still got nothing on Dock Ellis...
     Reply
    MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    01:53 AM

    @Hamilton Nolan: And this comment deserves a place in the false equivalency Hall of Fame!
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    I just can't stand these so called artists today and their insane lack of values. I'll stick to Sinatra, thanks...
     Reply
    MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of nozer nozer
    12/08/09

    @MyNameIsChris: I prefer the dulcet sounds of John Phillips and the Mamas and the Papas.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun promoted this comment nozer was starred nozer was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12/08/09

    @nozer: I see what you did there. I just try to exercise plausible deniability when listening to California Dreamin'. And, well, they never preached about the virtues of incest from the stage.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    12/08/09

    @MyNameIsChris: Please tell me you're joking. You're joking, right?
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of SarahHeartburn SarahHeartburn
    12/08/09

    This post is a joke, right? Is it so droll I'm just not getting it, or what?
    Do you have any idea of the violence and repression that gays in Jamaica suffer at the hands of the police and the courts and everyday scumbags? This is no joke. This asshole incites people to kill. Friends of mine, a gay couple, lived in Jamaica for a few years and only because one of them had a diplomatic passport were they able to get about without problems. I'm stunned at your insensitivity and ignorance of what's really happening there.

    Can't wait till the Klan comes up with a jammin' beat. Oh, wait, they already have. They've beaten a lot of people to death.
     Reply
    SarahHeartburn was starred SarahHeartburn was unstarred
    Image of SarahHeartburn SarahHeartburn
    12/08/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: Join the bewildered club.
     Reply
    SarahHeartburn was starred SarahHeartburn was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    12/08/09

    @SarahHeartburn: Oh, I was referring to the comment about Frank Sinatra, who was a raging homophobe, but I think maybe the commenter knows that and is being ironic. Sadly, I'm afraid the post itself is entirely serious.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    12/08/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: Yeah... I was being ironic. Now stop interrupting me and let me enjoy the ending of "Birth Of A Nation" in peace...

    (Sorry... I couldn't think of a good homophobic filmmaker off the top of my head so I had to opt for racism. Hmmm maybe Vincente Minnelli?)
     Reply
    Edited by MyNameIsChris at 12/08/09 7:23 PM MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    12/08/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: Take it back MissNormaDesmond. Nobody lived and loved like Frank. NOBODY. Plus, he was an Italian guy who fought for equal rights for the Blacks in the 1950s (awesomely ahead of his time). Well he fought for Sammy Davis Junior's rights anyways.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of ParahSalin ParahSalin
    12/08/09

    @MissNormaDesmond: OK, now it's my turn to take it back. I had no idea Frank was any more of a homophobe than any other straight guy in the 1950s.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment ParahSalin was starred ParahSalin was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    12:58 AM

    @ParahSalin: He certainly wasn't on the level of the subject of the post, no, but given that he was in the movie business and had to have worked with numerous gay people at one point or another, he didn't have the same excuses the average joe in the 50s did for accepting and maintaining homophobic stereotypes. He'd been close friends with Montgomery Clift until he found out Clift was gay, then cut him dead. That's kind of shitty.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    01:15 AM

    @MyNameIsChris: John Ford, if memory serves, was no friend of the friends of Dorothy.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of Lucky Lucky
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    If artists make an effort to integrate their political beliefs into their music, and into their performances, should listeners ignore the deeply offensive opinions in favor of the music anyway? I can't imagine anybody here being supportive of white power rock because it had a good beat.
     Reply
    Edited by Lucky at 12/08/09 5:18 PM Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12/08/09

    @Lucky: My thoughts exactly. If a white-supremacist band was trying to get a Grammy, I don't think this would even be an issue.

    Considering that Uganda right now is trying to pass a law that would make homosexuality a crime eligible for the death penalty, and would also send people to jail for years who don't "report" homosexual behavior (oh--and the law allegedly has support from some right-wing politicians in the U.S.), it seems downright disgusting to award this kind of music and sentiment a Grammy.
     Reply
    Edited by Atilla the Bun at 12/08/09 5:15 PM Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of loosecanon loosecanon
    12/08/09

    @Lucky: i don't know. when they were still good, i was pretty damn supportive of guns n roses, even though axl wrote some lyrics that put buju's to shame in the hatin department. that's probably the better analogy anyway- it's not like buju's entire oeuvre is about gay-bashing. (unlike, say a white power band whose entire raison d'etre is white power.)
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond promoted this comment loosecanon was starred loosecanon was unstarred
    Image of Lucky Lucky
    12/08/09

    @Atilla the Bun: I'm having a real hard time feeling comfortable with the separation that HamNo wants to make. If a political cartoonist (and the paper that employs him) shouldn't be supported for his racist/homophobic work, why should a musical artist who continues to advocate actual violence against gays get a pass because the rest of his stuff is enjoyable to listen to? An artist's work, unlike that of a baseball player, is largely centered around spreading their ideas through lyrics/art/whatever. How can those ideas be ignored?
     Reply
    Lucky was starred Lucky was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12/08/09

    @Lucky: Agreed. This guy uses his very music to relay his message. He has the right to do that all he wants, but I don't think he should win a Grammy award for it.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of demidan demidan
    12/08/09

    @Atilla the Bun: The Family is helping to pass the laws...
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun promoted this comment demidan was starred demidan was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12/08/09

    @loosecanon: The lyrics to some Guns 'N Roses songs were questionable, but I generally thought they were not to be taken in the literal sense. It seems often Rose was playing a character (or caricature) in some of his songs. There is simply no question that Buju has advocated EXTREME violence against gays both in his lyrics and his speech.

    But I'll be honest, once more and more about Rose's actual personality came out in interviews (particularly the way he liked to beat up women), I had trouble listening to Guns 'N Roses the same way again. I still like Appetite for Destruction, but I can't listen to it with the naivety that I could when I was 15 (yes, I'm old). Sweet Child O' Mine loses some of its romance when you know Rose wrote it for a girl that he beat up on a regular basis. (Still love Rocket Queen, though!)
     Reply
    Edited by Atilla the Bun at 12/08/09 11:14 PM Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of Atilla the Bun Atilla the Bun
    12:30 AM

    @demidan: I read that. I thought it was creepy enough they called themselves "The Family" and all live together in a dorm in D.C. But this is just beyond the pale.
     Reply
    Atilla the Bun was starred Atilla the Bun was unstarred
    Image of Airvault Airvault
    12/08/09

    In reply to Loving a Hater: The Buju Quandary
    Yeah. Being anti-gay sucks. But being anti-jammin' sucks, too.
     Reply
    Airvault was starred Airvault was unstarred
    Image of Magister Magister
    12/06/09

    In reply to GLAAD-Handed, Castle-Storming Adam Lambert to Come on The View
    I really hope the kid's fifteen minutes can go another five for the sake of everyone so invested, but I don't find the fact that he'll be on a show partially-owned by Barbara Walters to promote a Barbara Walters-owned, Barbara Walters Special, all that surprising.

    ETA: ...or maybe it's fascinating?
     Reply
    Edited by Magister at 12/06/09 1:10 AM Magister was starred Magister was unstarred
    Image of seyswho seyswho
    12/05/09

    In reply to GLAAD-Handed, Castle-Storming Adam Lambert to Come on The View
    Lambert seriously strikes me as attempting to be "spokesperson of the gheighs", when in fact he seems to me to be the least attractive candidate for this position. It seems that he can't decide which way to play his sexuality so that it gets the most publicity. Then when he hears "gay it up a little" from the blogs, he interprets that as "face-hump a dude on a network television awards show and piss off a whole bunch of people". Go away, please, Adam, you're making the rest of us look like fameballing twatwaffles by association.
     Reply
    Edited by seyswho at 12/05/09 1:22 PM seyswho was starred seyswho was unstarred
    Image of Nigerian Business Executive Nigerian Business Executive
    12/05/09

    @seyswho: Or you could just mumble "Adam who?" every time someone brings him up. That's my approach, having never knowingly heard one of his songs.

    I doubt his shiny star will last very long in any case.
     Reply
    seyswho promoted this comment Edited by Nigerian Business Executive at 12/05/09 1:19 PM Nigerian Business Executive was starred Nigerian Business Executive was unstarred
    Image of FlowChart FlowChart
    12/05/09

    @seyswho: I don't think he's trying to be a spokesperson for gays. He's trying to become a popular performer who is also gay. And that's precisely why GLAAD isn't mounting a stronger defense. They want him to be more political.

    He's not acting as a group advocate but as a group member. Instead of message points, he wants the freedom to express himself however he wants. Of course, that's the stated goal of gay equality, so in the long-term, he's doing more for gays than GLAAD. But now, he seems politically awkward and embarrassing.
     Reply
    seyswho promoted this comment FlowChart was starred FlowChart was unstarred
    Image of seyswho seyswho
    12/05/09

    @FlowChart: Good points, that makes a lot of sense. It just seems like he can't find his sexuality "groove" - like he's trying too hard to be liked by everyone (when that will never happen), and in turn he's creating the exact opposite effect. Of course, really, all of this would probably be a moot point if he could just sing and perform worth a damn.
     Reply
    seyswho was starred seyswho was unstarred
    Image of seyswho seyswho
    12/05/09

    Sorry, double post... Either Gawker or my computer are going all kinds of funky this morning.
     Reply
    Edited by seyswho at 12/05/09 1:55 PM seyswho was starred seyswho was unstarred
    Image of FlowChart FlowChart
    12/06/09

    @seyswho: "all of this would probably be a moot point if he could just sing and perform worth a damn."

    Agreed. On this point, we are in complete harmony.
     Reply
    FlowChart was starred FlowChart was unstarred
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