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New York, 2:51 PM
Thu Nov 26
41 posts in the last 24 hours
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07/28/09
Ignorant lawyers put it in back of their OWN name. This should never be done. It's done BY OTHERS in communication to a lawyer so that others know this is a (possibly) privileged communication.
My understanding was that I could not say I was a lawyer or an attorney until I was sworn in. If you don't pass the bar or you don't pass the character examination, you are never going to be an attorney. So don't say you are before you do those things and get sworn in.
In NY they ask you questions THE DAY OF your swearing in and could possibly bounce you then. So until you raise that hand, you're not an attorney.
Now what about attorneys who put their licenses in inactive status? Harvey Levin's closing on TMZ is "I'm a lawyer." But his license is inactive and though he could activate it at any time, is he still considered a lawyer when not practicing law? I suppose. But other lawyers like Geraldo Rivera and Jerry Springer don't waive their credentials around.
My understanding is that you have to have an active license to say you are a lawyer or an attorney. However, I think that if you can activate your license with one call (like Harvey probably could), then that's okay.
Pre-bar exam? Not okay.
07/28/09
Her comment about "lawyer" vs. "attorney" is just plain wrong. You're a law clerk / JD until you've 1) passed the bar and 2) been admitted (pass the character and fitness portion, which in NY comes after you pass the bar).
Honestly, I think this whole discussion is ridiculous. In New York, people pass the character and fitness exam after serving time for felonies. A guy I knew was arrested for disorderly conduct while in law school and he was admitted.
Good luck to those going into the Javits Hall of Death!
07/28/09
Well, actually now that I know a Harvard professor can be arrested for disorderly conduct for breaking into his own home and after showing ID, I guess New York is sensible.
Extreme case, but debt can bar you from being admitted:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/02/business/02lawyer.html?scp=1&sq=lawyer%20debt&st=cse
07/27/09
If you graduate law school, you have a JD. You are not a lawyer; you are not an attorney. You have probably run afoul of the Judiciary Law.
Once you have taken the Bar, but before you have your results, you are still not an attorney or a lawyer. You are a still just a JD.
Once you have passed the Bar, before you have had your character interview, you are an attorney awaiting admission. You cannot appear for clients, you cannot sign papers or orders.
Once you have passed the character interview but before you have been sworn in, you are still only an attorney awaiting admission and you still cannot put in appearances or sign papers.
Once you have been sworn in, then, and only then, are you an attorney. Saying "I'm a lawyer, not an attorney" is like saying "I'm a person, not a human." The two are interchangable.
I offer my congratulations to her on having some explaining to do at her character interview before even taking the Bar.
07/27/09
Well, actually, "lawyer" and "attorney" aren't (or didn't used to be) interchangeable.
An attorney at law is a lawyer retained to represent a client.
An attorney in fact is a person (not necessarily a lawyer) who has been granted a power of attorney and is permitted to represent someone else in nonlegal matters and to execute documents.
The key is representation. Wurtzel, for whatever her irritating tendencies, never represented that she was acting directly for clients. And she plainly cannot do that.
Journalists used to be taught this distinction.
07/28/09
Judiciary Law 478 forbids the use of either "lawyer" or "attorney" by someone not licensed to practice law.
She violated that section when she implied she was a lawyer. And, as someone who held herself out as a lawyer, she should know that ignorance of the law is no defense.
07/28/09
The law prohibits you from using the terms "lawyer" or "attorney" PROFESSIONALLY if you are not admitted. You cannot hold yourself out as providing legal services.
You can call yourself a lawyer or attorney all you want -- it's only when you use that designation to sell your (illegal) services without admission that you've violated the law.
07/28/09
Her statement may have been imprudent and inaccurate, but she wasn't holding herself out to be a lawyer.
07/27/09
07/27/09
The Supreme Court meets at Carnegie Hall now?
07/28/09
07/27/09
07/27/09
I've known people who weren't admitted until a year or two after they passed the bar. There are a lot of forms and affidavits and they were working 14 hours a day at their new jobs and not going to court or doing depositions or dealing directly with clients.
And maybe the system has changed, but I don't think you can even schedule an interview with the Committee on Character and fitness until the results are in.
07/27/09
All because my boss put down the title of the position he hired me for.
07/28/09
I thought that law students who work at firms during the summer were called "Summer Associates" and newly hired, not-yet-admitted law graduates were called "Associates." In any formal correspondence they state that their admission is pending.
07/27/09
07/27/09
07/27/09
Best of luck!
07/27/09
I would guess rather the law is intended strictly to prevent someone accepting representation under false pretenses, such as qualification in the field, perhaps to the exclusion of sexual prowess.
07/27/09
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07/27/09
Also, wear blinders, like the race horses do. It helps to focus on the test and not the people losing their shit in the aisles/seats next to you.
07/27/09
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