The problem is people are immune to shame. I'm not saying we need to bring back the stocks (I am) or that everyone needs to spend 15 minutes with my grandmother (they do), but a little embarrassment over doing stupid shit does work wonders. #manners
Some people just need to know that you mean business.
I was sitting on the Metro in DC next to a guy who kept his copy of the Post wide open across both seats, even after I sat down. Drove his elbow into my arm and everything. I put my bag down, arm-wrestled with him for a minute, and finally just looked at him. he kept staring at the Post.
I said, "Are you kidding?"
And he folded it into fourths, like a normal human being, and we went on our way.
Even yesterday, on our own fair subway, some dickhead had his lunch bag in the seat cattycorner from him (old 2 train) and didn't move it when I asked. So I sat on it, and he yanked it out from under me.
People know when they're being assholes. It doesn't hurt that I'm 6' tall and 2oo lbs., but they generally understand when their mothers would smack them for doing what they're doing. #manners
@Perhaps Not: No, it really helps that you're 6' 200. I have a friend who is 6'4 220 and I swear that the world is different when I'm out with him. I'm an average size dude, so it never ceases to amaze me how differently people treat him--they're rarely rude, and often just get out of his way instinctively. #manners
@merc6point9: Yeah, I hear you. Talking to my wife about a particular part of town, I'll say, "Oh, sure, they're rough-looking, but they don't do anything to you," and she'll say, "Maybe not to you." #manners
Hah, you think you know rude, wait til you move to Tel Aviv! Israelis take rudeness to a whole new level. Spitting, yelling, picking their nose, mouth breathing, smacking gum, ALL OF IT.
And everyone is talking on the phone at all times, including in the middle of business meetings (which is kind of awesome, actually). There is no time in which it is not okay to answer your phone here.
@HereComesMyBaby:
When I was a student in France I once saw a (I'm guessing) 35 or 40-year-old man berate a little old lady for taking too long at the ATM. I mean, she was a bit slow... but still. #manners
@Botswana Meat Commission FC: Yeah, here it's totally like that too. You get yelled at for doing ANYTHING. This is why I always have my headphones on. #manners
For loud talkers in public places, try taking out your newspaper or book and reading aloud VERY aloud. When phone blabber objects, say "Those of us who CAN read enjoy doing so". #manners
Why must these assholes talk through the movie that I have paid $12 for? Don't they understand this is not TiVo?There is no effing rewind. [Infrequently -- I can't stand movie theaters for this reason.]
Why is this self-satisfied upper-middle-class mom showing zero compunction that her 10-year-old almost flattened me with his scooter? [Last week.]
Why are people, unencumbered, able, and apparently not English, unable to keep to the right on a narrow stairway? [Frequently.]
Why do men occupying two seats on the subway glare at me when I try to sit down, requiring them to close their legs? Do their balls need a separate seat? [Daily.]
Why did that bike messenger who almost killed me while barreling the wrong way on a one-way street curse me out and keep riding? [Last month.]
@Seeräuber Jenny: I don't think you're a bitch. Some man-sized scrotum on a bike nearly killed my wife a couple of months ago screaming down THE SIDEWALK at what must have been thirty miles an hour. He yelled in her ear as he passed her, gave us a big grin as he zipped around the corner, and was gone. And I if I ever see him again, I will shove him off his bike and beat him with it. #manners
I'm behind the idea of telling an asshole to shut the fuck up completely. The only drawback is the potential for getting stabbed/smashed in the face. #manners
I think this might be an LA-centric complaint, but people who drive at night with their brights on in the near proximity of other drivers are a-holes who deserve to roast in a special circle of hell.
I used to live on Mount Washington in L.A., which is a hilly residential neighborhood only accessible by extremely narrow two-way roads running along the lip of deep canyons. Going up or down the hill at night, I'd inevitably come across at least 10 a-holes coming at me with the brights on full blast, fucking blinding me in the immediate vicinity of gaping chasms.I've honestly considered flipping a U turn and chasing them to their destination, just to bitch them out. #manners
@snugbug: I think that's something that happens everywhere. Newer cars have those xenon bulbs which are crazy bright (even without the high beams.) People who tailgate to stop signs and red lights drive me nuts.
Or, being Mt. Washington, they could just be shining their brights to scare away the Avenidas members from carjacking them.
(Highland park represent! Send me a message if you're around and I'll take you out for a drink) #manners
@snugbug: I had someone one do that to me last night while on the interstate, only because I passed him/her + I'm in the middle of nowhere western PA. But it happens more frequently on the country roads here. No one wants to turn the high beams down just because one car is approaching, only to turn them back on after the car has passed. It's people being not only rude, but lazy. #manners
Speaking of which, I recall a nite-time driving marathon to Las Vegas from LA on that godforsaken Interstate I-15 highway. Desert on the right, desert on the left. No lights whatsoever. Gas stops are 45 miles in between, or more. It's like driving on Mars. It's enormously difficult to negotiate that 4-hour stretch in the dark as it is, but bitch-ass bitches tailgating you on the highway with the high beams on adds to the stress like nobody's business. I admit that I was sincerely praying for my life during those whole 4 hours it took me to drive from LA to Vegas.
I know peeps are like, "Oh, we'll beat the traffic and drive to Vegas at nite!" Do yourself a favor and don't.
@snugbug: I wondered that myself, but these new lights are basically high beams. I have yet to hear of anyone getting a ticket for having them, but there is a God and she will reveal herself soon. #manners
@snugbug: Here's a solution. KC HiLites made a high output halogen light bar that mounts on the top of vehicles. They were all the rage in the late 80s/early 90s - pickup trucks mounted them on the top of the cab or a chrome rollover bar. You know the types - off-road meant they took an exit south of 123 on the Garden State Parkway or below 6 on the NJT. Get a set; mount it on your vehicle; and give the next oncoming &^%$# a flash. Nothing says turn off the high beams like six 300Watt halogen bulbs.
p.s., nothing says reckless [depraved] indifference to human life flashing six 300 Watt halogen bulbs into oncoming traffic on a long and winding road overlooking the bluffs of LA.
pps in NJ, the motor vehicle code mandates you leave them covered while "on road" #manners
@Phyllis Nefler: I disagree. I think they're helpful. Also, I find that I can look directly into xenon lights without hurting my eyes but regular white lights burn my eyesight away.
That said, maybe we need three degrees of lights at this point: city, highway, and country. #manners
@snugbug: LA to LV trip enormously difficult? You are one enormous whiner. It is a quite peaceful drive pretty much anytime.
I've meet girls who land at LAX from London, rent a car (opposite side traffic), drive to LV, arrive around midnight and report: No, I'm not that tired, the last part of the trip was pure serenity. Let's have drink.
If you get tailgated there you probably are one of the "55 mph on the leftmost lane no matter what's the traffic" ass-wizards. #manners
I've had a couple of Starbucks moments. The first occurred after a middle-aged guy had been ranting about a business deal to a younger man for at least 20 minutes.
(Hint: Holding a business meeting at SB is pathetic.)
It was impossible to do anything but listen to Mr. Stentorian, the shop was so tiny. Finally, I did a check by asking an older, patient-looking man who happened to be sharing my table.
--Is it me? Or is this guy kind of loud?
--Oh, no, it's not you. He's selling to the room.
So I got up and walked over to other fellow's table and asked him softly if he knew how loudly he had been speaking.
But as you know, you can't reason with an asshole:
Indignation. Who did I think I was? Did I think I owned Starbucks? Did I think that if I got on the subway that I owned all the subway seats?
YOU SHUT UP! (He later lied and told the manager that I'd said that to him.)
Conversation stopped. Everyone stared at us.Meanwhile the young companion tried to pretend none of this was happening.
In the end, it was Seeräuber Jenny who got the free coffee, so I guess I won.
In case in you're wondering why I didn't just get up and leave I could plead cold weather and a really hot latte, etc., but basically it's not in my nature to give in to assholes.
@Seeräuber Jenny: A few months ago, I'm in Starbucks, running late for work, trying to grab my morning coffee (I get the regular coffee, black, btw). There is woman parked at the front of the line, hemming and hawing, and just not making up her mind. This goes on for a few minutes, literally. The line is at a dead stop while this woman changes her mind, orders more stuff, it just doesn't end. Finally, I pipe up and say, "hey, take your time lady, we're all on your schedule now". At that, she actually wrapped her business up and skulked away. #manners
i don't usually talk about it, because it feels like writing a comedy routine about airline food, but: people who attempt to enter elevators/subway cars before letting passengers off rrrrrreally get the brunt of my wrath.
and by "brunt", i mean "shoulder into the sternum".
sorry, lady, maybe you should have picked up some common sense in the seventy-odd years you've been alive.
@johnny_carsick: I was once waiting for a train and saw some elderly Chinese dude start to do this...and then the giant young dude trying to exit literally grabbed the guy by the arms, picked him up, and hauled him out of the train and deposit him back behind everyone else who was waiting nicely for everyone to get off. I wanted to marry that man for approximately 3 seconds. #manners
@allyzay: ha. oh hells fuck yes, i'd love to do that. but at my size, it'd realistically only be possible with children, and that's opening a whole can of "no, officer, really...." outcomes. #manners
@allyzay: Because I live in China, I want to marry that man for the rest of my life. Also, this story is getting retold to my other expat friends here asap. #manners
@johnny_carsick: I get a perverse pleasure out of completely elbowing those people out of the way. Not sure what I'd do without my daily release valve of violence. #manners
@johnny_carsick: Often if parents don't think they can squeeze in past the crush of people leaving a subay car, they push their small children in ahead of them. You know what's about the head height of your 8 year old? My pocketbook which often weighs about 4 pounds. Oops.
I've noticed a big difference depending on the time of day. On my morning commute, the tired people just trying to get to work or finally stumbling home with a hangover almost always wait for everyone to exit before getting on. My evening commute is much worse as the trains are then packed with teenagers, tourist families, and the just beginning to be really drunk. #manners
@Altaira: Of course it's the people who do this every day who (mostly) know how to act. I've noticed that at certain subway stations near/in touristy areas, it's worse.
The very worst was during the Yankees parade a few weeks ago. When the train got to the Park Place station (pretty much across from City Hall), the massive crowd of large, loud creatures just swarmed into the train, not allowing anyone to get off, especially the petite mother with two small children. #manners
@Phyllis Nefler: I like to give elbow checks to the assholes who stroll down busy sidewalks staring down and typing away on their iPhones, Blackberries, etc.
No, I am not going to get out of their way (sometimes I couldn't do that even if I wanted to do so), so unless they look up and move, they're getting an elbow.
I perfected that move after I had major abdominal surgery and was paranoid about one of these assholes walking into me and making me hurt even more. #manners
@The One: I do the same to the "wanderers" -- the people who can't walk in a straight line. I'll never understand them, but I'm sure as hell not moving because your sense of balance is disfunctional and you're drifting into my line. I walk straight, if you can't do so, then I'm coming right at ya. The look on their face at the last second when they glance up and straighten out always makes me laugh. #manners
YOU'RE JUST NOT THAT IMPORTANT!!! That's what I think it's all come down to, this sense that we're all so damn important that we have to be so instantly reachable in the FIRST PLACE! I can't even have lunch with my sister without her constantly sliding her finger across her pretentious little Iphone.
As for the Taliban style (maybe? I couldn't make Al Qaeda work) enforcement of courtesy, well, as difficult as it is to stomach in the face of some of the more glaring abuses, the height of bad etiquette is to point out when someone else has made a gaffe.
But after you give them one chance, to allow for ignorance, you are free to deliver some sort of verbal smackdown. But you have to do it House of Lords style- "Sir, you will comport yourself as a gentleman and stand down!" #manners
@ms_priestypants: That is darn good advice, Ms. Priestypants. Being nice about giving a smackdown is really the only way to induce the appropriate level of shame and, perhaps, if one can dream, the chance of a change of behavior in the future.
Appropriate regional variations are quite appropriate in these cases, from a Southern "bless your heart" to a Midwestern, "gosh, I betcha didn't realize." #manners
@Lizawithazee: Aw thanks- I was raised by a steady stream of drawled corrections presented in the form of praise. I think we really do it best in the South, the birthland of the perfect neg. #manners
The photo thing- I have done weddings where I've had to specifically explain to the photographer that as this is a sacramental service, in a church, it really isn't okay to peer over my shoulder paparazzo-style with a telephoto lens in order to catch the exact moment when the bride says "I will"...and I've baptized more than one baby with blazing spots in my eyes from some thoughtful friend/godparent's flash. I've gone so far as to offer to re-enact the whole thing afterward for photos, just so it doesn't interrupt the flow of the worship.
I know I'm not making a new point here, but with the photography thing, sometime it seems like recording the experience gets in the way of actually experiencing it at all?
@ms_priestypants: I watched a friend's entire wedding service through the view screen of a camera. The person next to me was leaning so far out that's the only thing I could see. It was hideously tacky. #manners
@sarrible: I am tempted to stop doing weddings because of the amazing amounts of anxiety involved, plus the reality that for a number of people this is the first time they've been in church in a donkey's age, so they tend to not know how to act (see: nail clipping, extreme photography, etc.) Unfortunately (not really, this is my favorite part) hospitality is a central tenet of my faith...but I do spend time in counseling trying to undo the whole perfection-industrial-complex thing. And explain why the videographer can't put his tripod on the altar. #manners
@ms_priestypants: Sounds like you're fighting the good fight. A different friend and her husband made an announcement at the beginning of the service asking everyone to put their cameras away. I never thought someone would actually have to do that, but they said it made the ceremony much more personal. #manners
@sarrible: At my place we have a sign in the narthex and a notice in the program, in 24 pt font, and it still happens. Its hard to express in a sentence, but it really is all about being fully present for this pretty amazing thing that is happening. I don't even take cameras on vacation anymore, which is extreme, but I realized I was just steadily *documenting*.
@lukeoneil47: For the people who choose to jump through all of the hoops required to do it in my church, and are entering into this lifelong sacrament together- the only one that happens between two individuals, and is blessed by the church, instead of happening at the hands of an ordained minister on behalf of the church- it is pretty amazing.
I would imagine it is also amazing for the folks who celebrate it in a park with a friend who got ordained online, or jumping out of a plane with a local magistrate in parachutes, I just haven't experienced any of those. This is something I'm not cynical about. #manners
@ms_priestypants: I belong to an Orthodox synagogue and every once in a while, some guests at a bar mitzvah (or other occasion) whip out the digital cameras (and iPhones) and start shooting away as if they were paparazzi desperate to get many shots.
One father even did it while on the bimah during the ceremony. Oy. #manners
This morning I encountered a man walking down the street, belching every couple of steps. Just out loud, not covering his mouth, no shame. WTF?! #manners
10:18 AM
09:27 AM
I was sitting on the Metro in DC next to a guy who kept his copy of the Post wide open across both seats, even after I sat down. Drove his elbow into my arm and everything. I put my bag down, arm-wrestled with him for a minute, and finally just looked at him. he kept staring at the Post.
I said, "Are you kidding?"
And he folded it into fourths, like a normal human being, and we went on our way.
Even yesterday, on our own fair subway, some dickhead had his lunch bag in the seat cattycorner from him (old 2 train) and didn't move it when I asked. So I sat on it, and he yanked it out from under me.
People know when they're being assholes. It doesn't hurt that I'm 6' tall and 2oo lbs., but they generally understand when their mothers would smack them for doing what they're doing. #manners
11:37 AM
03:21 PM
03:26 AM
And everyone is talking on the phone at all times, including in the middle of business meetings (which is kind of awesome, actually). There is no time in which it is not okay to answer your phone here.
It's really kind of disgusting. #manners
09:46 AM
When I was a student in France I once saw a (I'm guessing) 35 or 40-year-old man berate a little old lady for taking too long at the ATM. I mean, she was a bit slow... but still. #manners
09:53 AM
02:25 AM
08:33 AM
01:55 AM
01:02 AM
Why must these assholes talk through the movie that I have paid $12 for? Don't they understand this is not TiVo?There is no effing rewind. [Infrequently -- I can't stand movie theaters for this reason.]
Why is this self-satisfied upper-middle-class mom showing zero compunction that her 10-year-old almost flattened me with his scooter? [Last week.]
Why are people, unencumbered, able, and apparently not English, unable to keep to the right on a narrow stairway? [Frequently.]
Why do men occupying two seats on the subway glare at me when I try to sit down, requiring them to close their legs? Do their balls need a separate seat? [Daily.]
Why did that bike messenger who almost killed me while barreling the wrong way on a one-way street curse me out and keep riding? [Last month.]
Why when I complain am I always the bitch?
08:34 AM
We who read your contributions here know that you're not. And just FYI, it's our opinions that count, right? #manners
09:38 AM
11:04 AM
Thanks. I was being sarcastic. I'm not a bitch, I'm just trying to stay alive.
I have a true terror of being killed by a bike messenger. I have had numerous close shaves. #manners
12:04 AM
11/15/09
11/15/09
I used to live on Mount Washington in L.A., which is a hilly residential neighborhood only accessible by extremely narrow two-way roads running along the lip of deep canyons. Going up or down the hill at night, I'd inevitably come across at least 10 a-holes coming at me with the brights on full blast, fucking blinding me in the immediate vicinity of gaping chasms.I've honestly considered flipping a U turn and chasing them to their destination, just to bitch them out. #manners
11/15/09
Or, being Mt. Washington, they could just be shining their brights to scare away the Avenidas members from carjacking them.
(Highland park represent! Send me a message if you're around and I'll take you out for a drink) #manners
12:07 AM
12:39 AM
12:52 AM
Speaking of which, I recall a nite-time driving marathon to Las Vegas from LA on that godforsaken Interstate I-15 highway. Desert on the right, desert on the left. No lights whatsoever. Gas stops are 45 miles in between, or more. It's like driving on Mars. It's enormously difficult to negotiate that 4-hour stretch in the dark as it is, but bitch-ass bitches tailgating you on the highway with the high beams on adds to the stress like nobody's business. I admit that I was sincerely praying for my life during those whole 4 hours it took me to drive from LA to Vegas.
I know peeps are like, "Oh, we'll beat the traffic and drive to Vegas at nite!" Do yourself a favor and don't.
12:52 AM
01:19 AM
07:40 AM
p.s., nothing says reckless [depraved] indifference to human life flashing six 300 Watt halogen bulbs into oncoming traffic on a long and winding road overlooking the bluffs of LA.
pps in NJ, the motor vehicle code mandates you leave them covered while "on road" #manners
11:50 AM
That said, maybe we need three degrees of lights at this point: city, highway, and country. #manners
12:48 PM
I've meet girls who land at LAX from London, rent a car (opposite side traffic), drive to LV, arrive around midnight and report: No, I'm not that tired, the last part of the trip was pure serenity. Let's have drink.
If you get tailgated there you probably are one of the "55 mph on the leftmost lane no matter what's the traffic" ass-wizards. #manners
02:02 PM
11/15/09
(Hint: Holding a business meeting at SB is pathetic.)
It was impossible to do anything but listen to Mr. Stentorian, the shop was so tiny. Finally, I did a check by asking an older, patient-looking man who happened to be sharing my table.
--Is it me? Or is this guy kind of loud?
--Oh, no, it's not you. He's selling to the room.
So I got up and walked over to other fellow's table and asked him softly if he knew how loudly he had been speaking.
But as you know, you can't reason with an asshole:
Indignation. Who did I think I was? Did I think I owned Starbucks? Did I think that if I got on the subway that I owned all the subway seats?
YOU SHUT UP! (He later lied and told the manager that I'd said that to him.)
Conversation stopped. Everyone stared at us.Meanwhile the young companion tried to pretend none of this was happening.
In the end, it was Seeräuber Jenny who got the free coffee, so I guess I won.
In case in you're wondering why I didn't just get up and leave I could plead cold weather and a really hot latte, etc., but basically it's not in my nature to give in to assholes.
07:39 AM
11:07 AM
That's happened to me, too. My solution: If I'm ever really in a hurry I call ahead.
Have you ever heard of anyone calling ahead to a Starbucks? I do. Anything to ease the foreseeable frustrations. #manners
11/15/09
and by "brunt", i mean "shoulder into the sternum".
sorry, lady, maybe you should have picked up some common sense in the seventy-odd years you've been alive.
11/15/09
11/15/09
11/15/09
11/15/09
12:58 AM
07:55 AM
I've noticed a big difference depending on the time of day. On my morning commute, the tired people just trying to get to work or finally stumbling home with a hangover almost always wait for everyone to exit before getting on. My evening commute is much worse as the trains are then packed with teenagers, tourist families, and the just beginning to be really drunk. #manners
10:39 AM
11:17 AM
The very worst was during the Yankees parade a few weeks ago. When the train got to the Park Place station (pretty much across from City Hall), the massive crowd of large, loud creatures just swarmed into the train, not allowing anyone to get off, especially the petite mother with two small children. #manners
11:18 AM
No, I am not going to get out of their way (sometimes I couldn't do that even if I wanted to do so), so unless they look up and move, they're getting an elbow.
I perfected that move after I had major abdominal surgery and was paranoid about one of these assholes walking into me and making me hurt even more. #manners
01:02 PM
11/15/09
Ok my headache's better. #manners
11/15/09
But after you give them one chance, to allow for ignorance, you are free to deliver some sort of verbal smackdown. But you have to do it House of Lords style- "Sir, you will comport yourself as a gentleman and stand down!" #manners
11/15/09
Appropriate regional variations are quite appropriate in these cases, from a Southern "bless your heart" to a Midwestern, "gosh, I betcha didn't realize." #manners
11/15/09
11/15/09
11/15/09
I know I'm not making a new point here, but with the photography thing, sometime it seems like recording the experience gets in the way of actually experiencing it at all?
11/15/09
11/15/09
11/15/09
11/15/09
12:18 AM
09:40 AM
I would imagine it is also amazing for the folks who celebrate it in a park with a friend who got ordained online, or jumping out of a plane with a local magistrate in parachutes, I just haven't experienced any of those. This is something I'm not cynical about. #manners
11:12 AM
One father even did it while on the bimah during the ceremony. Oy. #manners
11/15/09
11/15/09