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New York, 4:03 PM
Thu Nov 26
21 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of MyNameIsChris MyNameIsChris
    03:53 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    Or take my wife's approach and yell "cunt" at the dinner table as often as possible.
     Reply
    MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred
    Image of Benny Benny
    03:50 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I see pretty much eye to eye with most of my relatives, at least in so far as I'm aware (one creationist, but he's a paradox and damn nice fellow). For me it's my long term girlfriend's family that's the problem, and one time it got ugly.

    Perfectly hospitable people on the surface, but they happen to believe (like many of my fellow citizens, and the federal government, unfortunately) that asylum seekers should be put in prison camps for indefinite detention. You guys think immigration is an issue in the States? Spend some time with an Australian conservative. I'm talking actually putting men, women and children in desert concentration camps as the accepted norm.

    According to them asylum seekers are illegal immigrants, might be terrorists and are out to steal our jobs, money and water. I once tried explaining to them, as we enjoyed smoked salmon on the patio by their pool near their five cars, that these people are desperate, face persecution at home, and far from being illegal, in fact have every legal right to enter the country seeking asylum, in accordance with the UN Charter on Refugees and the Geneva Convention.

    Nothing works. No matter how sensibly you try to present your arguments, you can't make a sheltered, ignorant, xenophobic, moral illiterate see reason. Things became very unpleasant very quickly.
     Reply
    Benny was starred Benny was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    01:29 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I recall one family gathering with my ex-wife's observant Jewish relatives in which both the New York Times and I were deemed insufficiently pro-Israel because we thought that the Palestinians just might deserve a right or two. Jews hating the New York Times. I nearly choked on my brisket.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    01:58 PM

    @TheBusinessGuy: I nearly just choked on my Cabernet.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    01:59 PM

    @momof3wildkids: Baron Herzog, I hope.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of random_play random_play
    02:14 PM

    @TheBusinessGuy: The best thing about Jewish Thanksgiving is the turkey with eight drumsticks.
     Reply
    random_play was starred random_play was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    02:17 PM

    @random_play: Growing up, who knew from white meat? Even today, to me eating white meat is as tasty as eating a tallis.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    03:23 PM

    @TheBusinessGuy: White meat is for suckers.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    03:35 PM

    @TheBusinessGuy: Nope this Irish Catholic gal eats pork and mixes meat and dairy with impunity.

    I am actually quaffing a very nice Pahlmeyer cab 1995. Hubby and I bought it on our honeymoon in Napa many moons ago.

    YUM!
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of TheBusinessGuy TheBusinessGuy
    03:41 PM

    @momof3wildkids: Ah, an Irish Catholic girl! If you weren't married, I'd be in love! It's the Hebrew-Hibernian alliance! Enjoy your trafe and that tasty wine.
     Reply
    TheBusinessGuy was starred TheBusinessGuy was unstarred
    Image of allyzay allyzay
    01:28 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    You could just not visit your family. It's not the law.
     Reply
    allyzay was starred allyzay was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    02:02 PM

    @allyzay: It's not?! Why the fuck am I here right now?
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of Colander Colander
    02:12 PM

    @allyzay: Exactly. That's why I have a cell phone.
     Reply
    Colander was starred Colander was unstarred
    Image of Solomon Grundy Solomon Grundy
    01:07 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    You know, it's not necessary to be racist to favor a rational immigration policy distinct from open borders. I'm not even saying that's my position, I'm just saying I can see valid concerns folks might have with the idea of total deregulation of our immigration system. Between this and all the Lou Dobbs harping a clear pattern has emerged. Polarizing and oversimplifying the discourse that way doesn't do anybody any favors.
     Reply
    Solomon Grundy was starred Solomon Grundy was unstarred
    Image of momof3wildkids momof3wildkids
    03:16 PM

    @Solomon Grundy: I wish there were a 'like' button. You are completely, 100% right.
     Reply
    momof3wildkids was starred momof3wildkids was unstarred
    Image of MissNormaDesmond MissNormaDesmond
    03:34 PM

    @Solomon Grundy: I'm not seeing where anyone said anything you could really read as disagreeing with this stance. The thing is, the people who one generally hears going on about illegal immigrants as if they were emissaries of Satan don't tend to have anything like a well-thought out proposal regarding immigration, they just think brown people are stealing our jobs and our health care. If someone has a critique based on having really educated themselves on the issue, as opposed to just watching Lou Dobbs and Glenn Beck, it would be an interesting thing to discuss, but that's not the kind of person we're talking about here.
     Reply
    MissNormaDesmond was starred MissNormaDesmond was unstarred
    Image of Uncle_Billy_Slumming Uncle_Billy_Slumming
    03:49 PM

    @Solomon Grundy: The wisdom of Solomon Grundy! Now watch your back... there are those among us who do *not* tolerate tolerance or anything that threatens the tiny little bubble within which they live and write and seethe.
     Reply
    Uncle_Billy_Slumming was starred Uncle_Billy_Slumming was unstarred
    Image of Trai_Dep Trai_Dep
    01:03 PM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    Pinching Grandma's tush and blurting out, "Nice money-maker there, sexy-butt!" will end most political family discussions dead in their tracks.
     Reply
    Trai_Dep was starred Trai_Dep was unstarred
    Image of Claire Buoyant Claire Buoyant
    11:46 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I'm guessing that many right-wingers will latch on to a new topic of conversation today: if Obama can't keep the White House free from intruders (with an Arabic name, no less!), how can he keep America safe?
     Reply
    Claire Buoyant was starred Claire Buoyant was unstarred
    Image of raincoaster raincoaster
    12:01 PM

    @Claire Buoyant: We must guard the crudites that young Americans fought and died to protect!
     Reply
    raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    02:17 PM

    @Claire Buoyant: Yes, even though the party crashing dude looks whiter than Glenn Beck, his name clearly makes him a furner.
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of drunkexpatwriter drunkexpatwriter
    11:43 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I'd sell my soul to have relatives who were simply right wing nut jobs. Talking about death panels would be much easier than dead cats, people pulling knives and impromptu demolition derbies with family member's cars.
     Reply
    drunkexpatwriter was starred drunkexpatwriter was unstarred
    Image of johnny_carsick johnny_carsick
    12:36 PM

    @drunkexpatwriter: Trade?
     Reply
    johnny_carsick was starred johnny_carsick was unstarred
    Image of lostarchitect lostarchitect
    02:03 PM

    @drunkexpatwriter: Man, that sounds awesome.
     Reply
    lostarchitect was starred lostarchitect was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    11:31 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    thankfully, everyone in my family are dems/liberals/socialists. The closest I came to an argument was with one aunt who voted for Nader in 2000. Dumb bitch! Oh, and things were tense when I was backing Hillary and my dad loved Obama.

    Anyway, the main source of conflict with my relatives has yet to emerge since I still haven't come out as an atheist. Well, that and the fact that I'm still unemployed. So much to be thankful for, ya'll!
     Reply
    Edited by Helio at 11/26/09 11:33 AM Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11:34 AM

    @Helio: Hey now, easy on the Nader supporters.. I voted for Nader in 2004, since I'm normally waaaay left of the Dems, and John Kerry pissed me off so much with his wishy-washy, mumbly campaign that I wanted to strangle him.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    11:51 AM

    @snugbug: I was actually being facetious. If i had known more about him then, as I do now, i probably would have voted for him in 2004 too. Alas, i wasn't old enough.
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11:17 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I'm not spending Thanksgiving with my dearly beloved but pretty conservative folks this year--yet in years prior, I found that steering the discussion to Schwarzenegger works. Since my folks live in California, and my mom works in social services and has borne the brunt of the Gropenführer's cuts in that arena, we can all agree to hate on him.

    My brother is a bit trickier to deal with--he's wicked smart and really good at polemic. Also, I believe, the only person in the history of mankind to have gone to Berkeley and emerged on the other end a libertarian-conservative.
     Reply
    Edited by snugbug at 11/26/09 11:18 AM snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of xyzpdq xyzpdq
    11:51 AM

    @snugbug: "Gropenführer"...snicker
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment xyzpdq was starred xyzpdq was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    12:10 PM

    @xyzpdq: Yeah, it's my favorite nickname for Arnold. Not sure what outlet coined it first, maybe LAObserved.com? It's totally rooted in truth too. The day before election day in 2003, the LA Times published an expose whereby a plethora of the ladies he groped stepped forth to complain. It didn't help, but the nickname stuck.
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of honey's dead honey's dead
    12:23 PM

    @snugbug: "Gropenführer." Thanks for that. Awesome.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment honey's dead was starred honey's dead was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    12:38 PM

    @honey's dead: Fun fact: In German, the verb "führen" means both leading, and driving (in the automotive sense). It has always slightly freaked me out that my driving permit is called "Führerschein" (=leading-ness). Like, that gives me the permission to be a Führer? Brr..
     Reply
    Edited by snugbug at 11/26/09 12:39 PM snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of honey's dead honey's dead
    12:39 PM

    @snugbug: Oh....like master of the road!
     Reply
    honey's dead was starred honey's dead was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    11:15 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    You know how oftentimes someone raised in a very repressive, deeply religious household will grow up to be a wiccan atheist? My brother did the reverse commute.

    We were all baptized, but became long-lapsed and far-roaming Catholics, living with a watchful yet open-minded mother who gave us our space. She took us to science and natural history museums and vastly improved upon our public school education by sharing her empirical wisdom.

    The last time I spoke with my brother was in 2000 when he announced he was voting for George W. Bush because "he believes in Jesus Christ." Oh, and that fascinating thing called evolution that we used to discourse at length as children? "Only a heathen would think we descended from gorillas." ("Chimpanzees", I tried to correct him, to glassy eyed silence.)

    The problem I have with many - but not all - conservatives is that they are the masters of self-fulfilling prophecy. (By my brother's reasoning, I suppose that since George W. Bush says he believes in Jesus - even though Bush's actions were decidedly non-Christlike - he must be a good and noble man.)

    I think that sometimes the best way to talk to your conservative relatives is not to.
     Reply
    Edited by Lysergic Asset at 11/26/09 11:16 AM Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11:30 AM

    @Lysergic Asset: Oh, that's a bit sad.. I'm always hopeful that familial bonds can, and should, trump politics..

    I can however relate to having a conservative brother, whom I love more than life itself but who drives me nutso whenever we talk politics. In our family's case, it is I who is the contrarian/freak. We're first gen immigrants, which category of folk tend to be, by default, conservatives. Not in the grotty, irrational, Bible-thumping sense but more in the "Jeffersonian conservatism" vein. Big government = b-b-baaaad, etc.

    I don't have a problem engaging in polemics with smart conservatives--it can be kind of fun, actually. Then again, I've never truly been around Intelligent Design (TM) types who think Obama is an incubus..
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of honey's dead honey's dead
    11:37 AM

    @snugbug: Ditto on family. I just signed up for Facebook after intentionally avoiding it for good reason. Now, my birther cousin sends me regular updates on how her crusade is proceeding. I asked her brother (gay) how he dealt with it. "Higher road and lots of tranqs." I've yet to master the higher road part.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment honey's dead was starred honey's dead was unstarred
    Image of Claire Buoyant Claire Buoyant
    11:41 AM

    @Lysergic Asset: By my brother's reasoning, I suppose that since George W. Bush says he believes in Jesus - even though Bush's actions were decidedly non-Christlike - he must be a good and noble man.

    And mercenary cynics through history have used that logical failure to fleece the naive and line their own pockets. "O praise the Lord! Now pass the loot."
     Reply
    Claire Buoyant was starred Claire Buoyant was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    12:32 PM

    @snugbug: I don't have a problem engaging in polemics with smart conservatives--it can be kind of fun, actually. - Agreed - but I'd say "open-minded" in lieu of "smart", e.g. I think Rush Limbaugh is deviously smart, but I'd likely end a conversation with him in jail for murder.

    Also: my brother and I bear no ill will towards each other... I actually made a tremendous, heartfelt effort to stay in touch with him over the years, it just never worked. His 'family' is his wife and kids. My Mom and my other brother have a similar "ships not quite passing in the night" relationship with him, and they made the same efforts that I did to keep the connection open.

    Great reply - thanks!
     Reply
    Edited by Lysergic Asset at 11/26/09 12:33 PM Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    12:37 PM

    @Claire Buoyant: What's really sad here is the maliciousness of using 'dog whistle' words like God or Jesus or Country and taking advantage of people whom you know will believe you at your word, regardless of whether you are practicing what you preach.
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    02:31 PM

    @Lysergic Asset: Here's hoping things continue working out for you and your brother . . . to whatever extent they can work out. Happy turkey day.
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of Benny Benny
    03:24 PM

    @Lysergic Asset: Is this the same brother who is a mildly successful actor? Now I simply HAVE to know.
     Reply
    Benny was starred Benny was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    03:28 PM

    @OrneryBabe: How sweet and kind... thank you!
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of Lysergic Asset Lysergic Asset
    03:30 PM

    @Benny: It is. Nothing like the milk of Christian kindness, eh?
     Reply
    Lysergic Asset was starred Lysergic Asset was unstarred
    Image of katekate is squared katekate is squared
    11:02 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I might or might not be drunk already.
     Reply
    katekate is squared was starred katekate is squared was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11:08 AM

    @katekate is squared: Clearly not drunk enough, since you're spelling correctly. Happy Thanksgiving, KK2 & everyone else!
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    11:32 AM

    @snugbug: shit, i don't even know if liquor stores are open today? Is it like the bus...holidays are like sunday? They still sell wine in grocery stores, right?
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    11:37 AM

    @Helio: I'm in Germany but I'm pretty sure 7-11s, small bodegas and even supermarkets like Ralph's are open in the blessed U S of A.. That is part of what makes us sooo awesome.
     Reply
    Edited by snugbug at 11/26/09 11:38 AM snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of honey's dead honey's dead
    12:17 PM

    @Helio: You must be in the south. No worries, drive a few hundred miles to find a drive-thru and drink it on the way back to the festivities. *This comment in no way endorses dui and serves only as caustic commentary upon a culture in which I was forced to endure for a brief, but abhorrent time of my life.*
     Reply
    Helio promoted this comment Edited by honey's dead at 11/26/09 12:18 PM honey's dead was starred honey's dead was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    12:23 PM

    @honey's dead: virgina. okay, northern virginia, but still. The only ones we are fooling when we think we aren't apart of the south, are ourselves.
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    12:57 PM

    @Helio: OMG, you lucky Virginian! One of my greatest fantasies of all times is to spend either Thanksgiving or Christmas in the vicinity of Monticello. I imagine touring the premises and then retiring to some cheap motel nearby with some takeout, and ruminating on what I had just seen. I'm a huge Thomas Jefferson groupie.

    BTW, this artsy paean to TJ is one of my favorite InterNerd things ever, too:

    [kalman.blogs.nytimes.com]
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of Helio Helio
    01:09 PM

    @snugbug: then you will be disappointed to learn that I've never been there. I did do a college tour of UVA which is sort of the same.
     Reply
    Helio was starred Helio was unstarred
    Image of snugbug snugbug
    01:55 PM


    @Helio: That's alright. TJ felt very strongly that UVA was one of his most important achievements, as evidenced by the epitaph he composed for himself:
     Reply
    snugbug was starred snugbug was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    02:18 PM

    @katekate is squared: I have already had two mimosas with breakfast/brunch. A third would be excessive, no? Maybe under the guise of celebrating that my swine-flu infected relative is not coming over for dinner after all? Looking forward to wine with dinner.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    02:20 PM

    @katekate is squared: I have already had two mimosas with breakfast/brunch. A third would be excessive, no? Maybe under the guise of celebrating that my swine-flu infected relative is not coming over for dinner after all?

    I am very much looking forward to wine with dinner. Or, should I say, dinner with my wine.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment Edited by OrneryBabe at 11/26/09 2:21 PM OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of OrneryBabe OrneryBabe
    02:23 PM

    @Helio: Happily, one of my local wine shops was open today. You should check - you may be pleasantly surprised. Although anything open today is certainly closing early.
     Reply
    snugbug promoted this comment OrneryBabe was starred OrneryBabe was unstarred
    Image of If_I_Had_a_Poodle If_I_Had_a_Poodle
    10:58 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    Drugs. Lots of drugs.
     Reply
    If_I_Had_a_Poodle was starred If_I_Had_a_Poodle was unstarred
    Image of TheUptightMidwesterner TheUptightMidwesterner
    10:23 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    The last Thanksgiving I attended with my folks, my mom announced that the minute anyone brought up politics she would promptly go into the kitchen and dump out as much booze as she could get her hands on.

    I heard last year that my Dad and brother in law started talking smack to each other so she went and shook up about 30 cans of beer and hid my dad's vermouth.
     Reply
    TheUptightMidwesterner was starred TheUptightMidwesterner was unstarred
    Image of bluebears bluebears
    10:42 AM

    @TheUptightMidwesterner: that is awesome. Back during the Reagan years I remember older (clearly unstable) relatives leaving the table in tears. TEARS.
     Reply
    bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred
    Image of Hiroine Protagonist Hiroine Protagonist
    02:38 PM

    @TheUptightMidwesterner: That is actually a doable strategy for my family. Thanks!
     Reply
    Hiroine Protagonist was starred Hiroine Protagonist was unstarred
    Image of raincoaster raincoaster
    10:08 AM

    In reply to How to Talk to Your Conservative Relatives
    I love that video!
     Reply
    raincoaster was starred raincoaster was unstarred
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