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Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel

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Perhaps Not
09/04/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Three -ations in a row can't be wrong!
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Tweezergal
09/04/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
I must say, the Arabs are very efficient -- they accuse Jews of having a well-oiled propaganda machine when they have the best one in place, ever: first they feed you a lie over and over again; then, if you still fail to see it their way, they threaten you with death; and then, if you're still recalcitrant, they just kill you, period; and finally -- to top it off -- they accuse the Jews of plotting the whole thing, the death included. How marvelous, as Billy Crystal would say. (It's just typical anti-Semitism, project onto Jews whatever you're guilty of, then complain, after the Jews protest, that "those people" call everything anti-Semitism.) For some strange reason, Queen Noor and her autobiography keep popping up in my head as I write this.)
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alboy2
09/04/09

@Tweezergal: I'm so glad you proved your argument with facts...oh, waitaminit...I see what you did there. Jest keep the hate on...it will solve all our problems.
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Tweezergal
09/04/09

@alboy2: Oh, gee -- I'm the one instigating hate!!!! Try picking up a newspaper and then you'll have the facts. I didn't think I had to spell them out. Oh, let's see, off the bat: we have death threats against Danish citizens for their portrayal of Mohammed; we have the horrific beheading of Daniel Pearl; we have a fatwa against Salman Rushdie. And those are just off the top of my head. And of course there are the everyday stonings -- what a nice way to propagate peace and justice. I'm not the one keeping up the hate -- I'm just pointing it out, but in the Arab universe everything gets twisted around. It's kind of like a person punching someone in the face a million times, and then when their victim points out the punchings, the perpetrator goes, "Oh, there you go again, screaming oppression, accusing others of violence. Why do you provoke such hatred? I was giving you love taps." And that, in a nutshell, is Arab propaganda -- only much worse. Oh, gee, am I "keeping up the hate" by pointing out what's going on? To my mind, pointing it out is anti-hate.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/04/09 3:58 PM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

wonky-tonk
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC. Yes, let’s all support scenic Tel Aviv and the ethnically-cleansed "Jewish" State of Israel with our glowing admiration, annual US warfare/settlement-welfare billions, and limitless neo-Bible-belt collections and Euro-jet-setting dollars……while so many wounds are still fresh in Gaza……..Even President Obama is clearly looking-forward/past/ignoring them. It’s a shame he has to bend-over so far to kiss the wrinkled, warmongering ass of a Binyamin Netanyahu.
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Tweezergal
09/04/09

@wonky-tonk: It's astonishing how many lies can be perpetrated by photography and film today -- just cut and paste. Get some real perspective: Israel is a tiny nation, fighting for survival amid a hostile world. Why can't they just be left alone? The Arab states and the world never gave a hoot about the "Palestinians" until they could be used aggressively against Israel. Period. Why don't the Palestinians place more bomb factories in the middle of nursery schools, and then show photos of Jews killing babies? Are the Israelis just supposed to wait until they're turned into lampshades and soap -- recalling the Holocaust. Oh, am I not supposed to bring up the Holocaust -- is that just manipulatively Jewish of me? Heaven forfend.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/04/09 4:30 PM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

wonky-tonk
09/04/09

@Tweezergal: It’s evident that you are passionate. But do you honestly believe Israelis such as former Air Force Captain Yonotan Shapira or scholars such as Noam Chomsky are simply lying, being disingenuous, or just blind. Any video presentation however "accurate" or "objective" or "cut/paste/sensational" barely captures the real, immediate shock and trauma and long-term loss and suffering of the collateral casualties or victims of war.

The truth is, relatively few US citizens pay any attention to the plight of Gaza or the West Bank or Palestinians except when there is so much bloodshed it becomes hard for MSM to ignore. No doubt a video of a terrorist’s suicide bombing would be as equally disturbing as the one above. But, if Israel doesn’t soon sincerely seek peace beyond its security walls, and if it fails to sincerely seek justice and equality for all its citizens NOW within those same walls, it will be promoting violence and discrimination against all Jews – worldwide -- for generations to come.

What would a twelve-month TOTAL FREEZE on all settlement construction AND ON the nonstop displacement of non-Jews from East Jerusalem…what would it cost Israel relative to a last chance for peace?

What would the "Jewish" in the Jewish State of Israel mean in terms of civil rights for "Arab citizens of Israel", or non-Jewish immigrants wanting to become full Israeli? Could an Arab or Christian ever become Prime Minister or Mayor of Jerusalem? Could they always live "unrestricted" in any neighborhood that they could afford? Could they have as many non-Jewish children as they could care for?

Approximately 2 million of the 7.5 million citizens/residents of Israel are Arabs or non-Jews. Do you plan to give them "amended" civil and political rights? About 2.5 million Palestinians live in the West Bank, another 1.5 million in Gaza, plus roughly 3 million Arabs who were displaced from Palestine live in Jordan/Syria/Lebanon/Saudi Arabia/Egypt…Many might desire to return to where they or their parents or grandparents once lived, where they have family and friends or new spouses, where they would have full citizenship rights equal to anyone in the State of Palestine-- and full opportunity to prosper. What restrictions could you keep imposing on all these Palestinians and on all the surrounding refugee inhabited Muslim nations, to preserve Israel as a "Jewish" State, without magnifying the growing "existential threat" against her?
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wonky-tonk
09/04/09

@Tweezergal: The disturbing video I was referring to is not the Captain Shapira clip, but one in the hidden thread with truly "graphic violence"…for those who have not engaged it…and perhaps were wondering.
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Tweezergal
09/05/09

@wonky-tonk: Your response was filled with so much "passionate" and in-built, if subtle, propganda, I really don't think it merits a serious answer, and I don't think this is the forum for one anyway. The "Palestinians" are not "collateral" damage, as you swiftly write -- they have been PURPOSEFULLY made targets by their leaders. That's just one example of what you write that SOUNDS okay and reasonable, but isn't when you look at the facts. Then you swiftly mention "displacement" of "Palestinians" during Israel's founding, something, again, many a demographer would disagree with. As far as Chomsky, you're a bit more impressed with the label "scholar" than I am. And Israelis themselves are at their wits end, so they often talk up the "Palestinian" cause. I really don't have a full fledged peace plan; I just know Israel must remain a Jewish state because that's the safest, most moral, and reasonable answer for Jews and the world at large. The cost would be too great otherwise. That's it. Enough here. Caving into Arab propaganda about "Palestinians" is not the answer.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/05/09 12:46 AM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

Tweezergal
09/05/09

@wonky-tonk: But the most frightening and hateful part of your seemingly rational statement is the idea that unless Israel's self-destructs as a Jewish state, horror will be visited upon Jews worldwide. It's astonishing. And I really don't think Israel has to erase itself off the face of the earth because, as you write --I'm paraphrasing -- expatriates won't be able to visit their loved ones in Jerusalem!!! There are solutions for that, and Israel's death is not one of them. It's the height of manipulation to discuss opportunites for these poor, oppressed Muslim masses when they have twenty-two other countries to live in, and when, on balance, the Jews need a land of their own -- for their own good and for the world's good. Have some common decency. The "Palestinians" are just being used as pawns for Irael's destruction. And even if there were some legitimate Palestinians, they are far and fewer than what's put out there. And plenty of people are moved and displaced -- look at India and Pakistan; the German states; etc. -- and nobody discusses the inhumanity of it. Israel has done more for the "Palestinians" and their positive welfare than any one nation. It's all topsy turvy.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/05/09 1:18 AM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

Tweezergal
09/05/09

@wonky-tonk: And finally, in your seemingly even-toned response -- with the operative word being "seemingly" -- your focus is on the rights of non-Jews in a Jewish state. Why is that? If every non-Jew in the world wanted to immigrate to Israel it would no longer be a Jewish state, so you're, again, calling for Israel's death under the pretense of being fair to all. Why don't you focus on Arab states and all their human rights violations, against both Muslim themselves but especially non-Muslims? Jews were forced out of every Arab state, and even before they were exiled they had to live as second-class citizens -- for thousands of years. On balance, the boat people of the world, that is the Jews, who've suffered more torment than any other -- others have certainly suffered, though --need a land of their own, and that should be understood by the world at large -- especially by their Arab neighbors. And, again, your speaking about the rights of non-Jews in a Jewish state, as though you're so fair-minded, is just disingenuous, and frankly, murderous. They have plenty of other options, but Jews needs a physical state of their own, for protection, dignity, and a sense of home, something they've been denied for thousands of years -- with repeated exiles, progroms, the Holocaust. Enough! Put things in perspective. Go take your consciousness about human rights' abuses to Arab lands -- where its much needed -- to China, and Darfur. Because frankly, Muslims in Israel are a lot better off than they would be in any Arab country. And they know it. I don't write any of this from a religious perspective -- I not at all religious -- just from a practical, humane, and balanced one. Go read up on the history of anti-Semitism. Israel has been treating the Palestinians, a group with murderous intent and practice towards its citizens, better than any other nation would.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/05/09 9:54 AM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

wonky-tonk
09/05/09

@Tweezergal: What do you think motivated former Israeli Airforce Captain Yonotan Shapira to say what he said in this video?
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Tweezergal
09/06/09

@wonky-tonk: Are you kidding, asking me to listen to this nonsense? The Arabs have promised many, many things through the years, and then they just create a splinter group to forfeit those previous promises. It's ridiculous. And Arafat was already asked to sign on the dotted line by Israel on an agreement to revert to the 1967 borders -- or almost to those borders -- and backed out. Israel does need to maintain a buffer zone. And as far as Israeli soldiers making comments -- so what? There are self-hating people all over the world, and there are also people so traumatized they really don't know what to say, so they're lead by the nose. The Arabs have more than enough land. The people who call themselves Palestinians should live in Jordan, or any other of the many countries where their brethren reside. Again, go read up on the history of anti-Semitism and try to tell me a fairer answer than that. Israel is necessary, a moral and just answer for thousands of years of hate. The Jews need it AS A JEWISH STATE and so does the world. Have some largesse, for heaven's sake. Even if there are a few legitimate Palestinians -- and there are very few, really -- they should want to move, should want to help the boat people of the world -- the Jews.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/06/09 6:20 PM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

wonky-tonk
09/06/09

@Tweezergal: Perhaps, you should discard some of what Professor Efraim Karsh has used his brute intellect, learning and cultured-bias to "skim" and "revise" in Middle East history so that his theories might better reflect certain ultra-Zionist propaganda. Many have come to the conclusion that Karsh is the "Count Dracula of Apocryphal Apologia for Israel." As to Palestinian ever-fractured political leadership -- what do you think of the following:

*Amid all the howls of pain and gnashing of teeth over the triumph of Hamas in the Palestinian elections, one fact remains relatively obscure, albeit highly relevant: Israel did much to launch Hamas as an effective force in the occupied territories. If ever there was a clear case of "blowback," then this is it. As Richard Sale pointed out in a piece for UPI:

"Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years. Israel ‘aided Hamas directly – the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization),’ said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic [and International] Studies. Israel’s support for Hamas ‘was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative,’ said a former senior CIA official."

Middle East analyst Ray Hanania concurs:
"In addition to hoping to turn the Palestinian masses away from Arafat and the PLO, the Likud leadership believed they could achieve a workable alliance with Islamic, anti-Arafat forces that would also extend Israel’s control over the occupied territories."

In a conscious effort to undermine the Palestine Liberation Organization and the leadership of Yasser Arafat, in 1978 the government of then-Prime Minister Menachem Begin approved the application of Sheik Ahmad Yassin to start a "humanitarian" organization known as the Islamic Association, or Mujama. The roots of this Islamist group were in the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood, and this was the seed that eventually grew into Hamas – but not before it was amply fertilized and nurtured with Israeli funding and political support…..

*From the opening passages of the thought-provoking article, "Hamas, Son of Israel," Jan. 28, 2006 by Justin Raimondo on Antiwar.com’s Behind the Headlines.

As far as "largesse" – it’s not "my" Palestine to "give away." I do not deny the immeasurable suffering and tragedy of the Holocaust. I do not deny the reality and history of worldwide Anti-Semitism. But I believe Zionism, especially "ultra-militant-Zionism," only leads to more suffering for all Jews, and everyone – "everywhere" --regardless their ethnicity or religious conviction. Thanks for the conversation. Shalom.
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iplaudius
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
And every film thematizing America or American life should be protested on behalf of the Native Americans. And those about China should be protested on behalf of the Tibetans, Manchurians, and so on. And those about Russia should be protested on behalf of the Chechens. And those about Japan should be protested on behalf of the descendents of Korean POWs. And those about Egypt should be protested on behalf of Coptic Christians. And on and on and on.

Or is there something I’ve missed, some peculiar reason to place special emphasis on the Jewish state?
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Edited by iplaudius at 09/03/09 7:50 PM iplaudius was starred iplaudius was unstarred

once
09/03/09

@iplaudius: um, the abuse in the settlements is going on right now & there's something that can be done about it; unfortunately, not so for Native Americans & the atrocities have been acknowledged by the US. People do protest China (see 2008 Olympics) & protests are staged every year on the anniversary of WWII for Japan's refusal acknowledge its war crimes. Google Noam Chomsky's writing on the plight of Palestinians for more info.
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iplaudius
09/03/09

@once: I am questioning whether anyone involved in the letter has protested another film for similar reasons .

@Charolastra: "Short on arguments?" This letter is an extraordinary form of protest in the context of a film festival. It is so extraordinary, it raises the question: why Israel?
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@iplaudius: Why wake up from the nightmare called history at al!
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Charolastra
09/03/09

@iplaudius: Well, in this particular case, the protest is being staged in response to a perceived lack of objectivity on the part of those who organized the "Spotlight on Tel Aviv" section, so it's hardly random. If they had chosen, out of the blue, to protest against Israel in some festival with no programmed spotlight, you'd have grounds for complaint.

Look, the situation between Israel and Palestine is far more complex than "who did what to whom". It is also true that we should do a better job as citizens to demand accountability from every country, not just isolated cases. But to attempt to shove away responsibility by arguing that many countries have also wronged others is an afront to the history of oppression and suffering of the Jewish people and you are doing a diservice to the cause of Israel, even if its only on an internet forum.
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ambitious promoted this comment Edited by Charolastra at 09/03/09 8:53 PM Charolastra was starred Charolastra was unstarred

iplaudius
09/03/09

@daveyjonesisdead: Don’t invoke history unless you’re willing to go back more than a few years.

It would be much more straightforward if people inclined to protest all things Israel would get behind one of these two statements:
- Yes, I think there should be a Jewish state in Israel.
- No, I do not think there should be a Jewish state in Israel.
If the answer is "No," then I don't care to argue.
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

Shall I go back as far as the invasion of canaan by the israelites?
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@iplaudius: yeah, that Jane Fonda, what the hell has she ever protested before?
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@iplaudius: Yes, you did miss it: it's because the Jewish state (your words, not Israel's) chose the TIFF as the beginning of a PR campaign. It was in the petition:

n 2008, the Israeli government and Canadian partners Sidney Greenberg of Astral Media, David Asper of Canwest Global Communications and Joel Reitman of MIJO Corporation launched "Brand Israel," a million dollar media and advertising campaign aimed at changing Canadian perceptions of Israel. Brand Israel would take the focus off Israel’s treatment of Palestinians and its aggressive wars, and refocus it on achievements in medicine, science and culture. An article in Canadian Jewish News quotes Israeli consul general Amir Gissin as saying that Toronto would be the test city for a promotion that could then be deployed around the world. According to Gissin, the culmination of the campaign would be a major Israeli presence at the 2009 Toronto International Film Festival. (Andy Levy-Alzenkopf, "Brand Israel set to launch in GTA," Canadian Jewish News, August 28, 2008.)
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iplaudius
09/03/09

@daveyjonesisdead: What do you think?
- Yes, I think there should be a Jewish state in Israel.
- No, I do not think there should be a Jewish state in Israel.
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@iplaudius: I think there is not a jewish state "in" (sic) Israel. I think there is not a jewish state in the Middle East.
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iplaudius
09/03/09

@daveyjonesisdead: Israel is one of many names for the land also called Canaan, Filastin, Palestine, and many other names still.

I appreciate the honesty of your response, which is tantamount to a “no,” as far as I’m concerned. There can be no dialectic without shared premises. That is to say, I do not think it is productive to argue about the actions of the modern State of Israel, when my interlocutor either does not support the national self-determination of the Jews in Israel or, at any rate, refuses to accept modern Israel as a Jewish state. What can I say? I wish you well.
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daveyjonesisdead
09/04/09

@iplaudius: Are you saying Israel is a jewish state, because I'm pretty sure Israeli Arabs don't think so. Or are you saying you think it should be jewish state, and Arabs should not be allowed to vote?
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once
09/04/09

@daveyjonesisdead: Israel is a Jewish state. Period. No one protesting at the film festival believes a Jewish state should cease to exist. However, there should be a Palestinian state next to Israel - what most people are currently protesting is the poor treatment of Palestinians.
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daveyjonesisdead
09/04/09

@once: Not per its constitution. Period.
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adiam7
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Newsflash , there was a Palestine and there were Palestinians before 1948 by non-Arabs. Such as in the pro-Jewish Balfour Declaration:
"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country".
There are also writings by Chaim Weizmann and Theodor Herzl that anyone could look up where the question of the Palestinian people is addressed.
There is no denying that Palestinians have been dispersed from their homes and many live in camps and neighboring countries. These are facts. There is plenty of blame that can go around for this reality.
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Tweezergal
09/03/09

@adiam7: These are NOT the facts. Go read "Fabricating Israeli History" by Efraim Karsh, probably the greatest living scholar on Israeli history. Jordan was even supposed to go to the Jews, but the Arabs co-opted that for themselves, too. They couldn't even give the boat people of the world -- the Jews
-- a small strip of land without violence and rancor. It's disgusting. Israel should be given human rights' awards for the way they treat the people who call themselves Palestinians. If it was any other country dealing with terrorist attacks on innocent civilians, the "Palestinians," ie, the perpetrators, would have had hell to pay.
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kristinab
09/04/09

@Tweezergal: the nerve huh. the arabs who were already living in jordan took it. whatta bitch that is!

and yeah, using white phosphorous on civilians, bombing their schools, initiating a blockade, bombing places of worship, bombing UN facilities...they give out human rights awards for that for sure! it's a surprise that israel hasn't received one for its benign treatment of the arab savages who dare to want to establish their own state. maybe next year--fingers crossed!
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Tweezergal
09/04/09

@kristinab: The Arabs already have plenty of their own states, around 22, if I'm not mistaken! And now there were Jordanians too, according to you! And while you're at it, go send "Palestinian" children, as young as three, who are not sick, in a ambulance with a bomb underneath, just so you can kill as many Israelis as possible. And THEN make up some propanganda, like medieval bloodlibels (Jews eating Christian blood), about how Israelis are doing all kinds of horrible things, like killing children as young as three -- or what you made up above. Oh, by the way, YOU'RE THE ONE who called the Arabs "savages"; I don't care if it was sarcasm -- it's still pretty terrible. They're people, like any other, like the Jews, but their leaders are roundly misinforming them. They have enough land, and they were itinerant farmers before the advent of Israel, so they weren't really "living" there. Many were actually told to GO live there right before the State's founding, as a bulwark against the Jews. And, by the way, just to preempt your sarcasm, there's nothing wrong with being ITINERANT. The Jews were forced into itinerancy by a hostile world, for thousands of years; that said, there were always many Jews who managed to stay in what is now called Israel. Why can't the Israelis just be left in peace, after so many thousands of years of suffering? Why isn't the world focused on Australians displacing the Aboriginis? New Zealanders, the Pygmies, and so and so on? And these "settlers" never had a claim on the original land, like the Jews do with Israel, and they weren't in constant suffering, and the native populations were really living there for millennia!!! I'll tell you why? It's called anti-Semitism.
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alboy2
09/04/09

@Tweezergal: B.S. That is all.
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Tweezergal promoted this comment alboy2 was starred alboy2 was unstarred

Tweezergal
09/04/09

@alboy2: No, just the facts. Unless by BS you mean "Best Standards" -- then you'd be correct. Arab propgandists call everything BS -- in its regular usage -- when they can't respond intelligently. Go read "Fabricating Israeli History, by Efraim Karsh. Of course, you'd call that BS, too. Because what else can you do, period.
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Weegee's bored
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Wow. Let's explain and support the Palestinian position by staging a Suicide Bomber Performance Art Spectacular at every bus terminal, police station and nightclub in Toronto.
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uncivilly obedient
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
This is the founding of Tel Aviv by Eastern European Jews in 1922.

Were people dispersed from their homes under the sand dunes?
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Weegee's bored promoted this comment Edited by uncivilly obedient at 09/03/09 7:19 PM uncivilly obedient was starred

Weegee's bored
09/03/09

@uncivilly obedient: The natives had a causual approach toward progress when it was a desert. Now that it's Beverly Hills -- awright awright, Great Neck -- they want it back.
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Tweezergal
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Naomi Klein is a baby, without an original thought in her pee-wee brain; Wallach Shawn is smart, but single-minded; And Jane Fonda is a born-again Christian nutjob. And they all know nothing about the history of Israel. They just want to be associated with leftist -- not necessarily liberal -- views that always advocate for the oppressed. And that would be fine, even admirable, except in a case like this when they don't know up from down and who's oppressed and who's not. Occupied territory -- absurd. This is all propaganda from Arab states who really couldn't give two bits about the people now called Palestinians. All those states just want Israel out. It's really unbelievable. And why isn't Shawn protesting against Manhattanites, who stole the land from the Indians outright. He's living in occupied land -- I think somewhere on the Upper East Side. Shame on him.
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Edited by Tweezergal at 09/03/09 7:17 PM Tweezergal was starred Tweezergal was unstarred

Greasy Thumb Guzik
09/03/09

@Tweezergal:
One correction: Wallace Shawn lives in the West Village.
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Tweezergal
09/04/09

@Greasy Thumb Guzik: Thanks, for the correction. I'm pretty sure he grew up on the Upper East Side. Maybe a psychoanalyst would say Shawn felt displaced by his father, William Shawn, having a longterm affair with New Yorker writer Lillian Ross, who supposedly adopted a son with him, and so now he's forming a bond with Palestinians, who claim displacement by Jews -- of course, his father and Lillian were Jewish. I dunno -- just a stream of consciousness thought that came out of my head.
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secretagentman
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
What, Joyce DeWitt was too busy to sign?
Protest all you want, just don't stand between me and Matt Damon and/or George Clooney or you will really know some suffering.
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JPMarat
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Do these idiots even know the history of Tel-Aviv?

spoiler alert-it wasn't "stolen"
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daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@JPMarat: I forget, what do you call it when you take something by force from its former occupants? Settling, maybe?

Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 on the outskirts of the ancient port city of Jaffa (Hebrew: יָפוֹ‎, Yafo; Arabic: يافا‎, Yaffa). According to the 1947 UN Partition Plan that proposed dividing Palestine into Jewish and Arab states, Tel Aviv, by then a city of 230,000, was slated for inclusion in the Jewish state. Jaffa with, as of 1945, a population of 101,580 people, 53,930 of whom were Muslim and 16,800 Christian, making up the Arab population, and 30,820 Jewish, was designated as part of the Arab state.[39] The Arabs, however, rejected the partition plan.[7] Between 1947 and 1948, tensions grew on the border between Tel Aviv and Jaffa, with Arab snipers who were firing at Jews from the "minaret" of the Hassan Bek Mosque. The Haganah and Irgun Jewish forces retaliated with a siege on Jaffa.[7] From April 1948, the Arab residents began to leave. When Jaffa was conquered by Israeli forces on May 14, few remained.[7]
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daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred

pony_express
09/03/09

@daveyjonesisdead: you write oddly like wikipedia.
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daveyjonesisdead promoted this comment pony_express was starred pony_express was unstarred

daveyjonesisdead
09/03/09

@pony_express: LOL. I considered putting a link but figured people would know where it came from. And just to be clear: Wikipedia writes like me.
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daveyjonesisdead was starred daveyjonesisdead was unstarred

Pope John Peeps II
09/03/09

In reply to Filmmakers Draw Dotted Line Across Toronto's Red Carpet over Israel
Wow. Naomi Klein, Wallach Shawn +1. But Even Ensler, Jane Fonda -1.

Who still asks eve ensler anything? What has she even DONE besides the Vagina Lengthy Boring Discussions With Nobody.
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Pope John Peeps II was starred

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