@EdnaAcrisius: I think the point--which may, of course, be argued--is whether Gawker readers care about/are aware of what's going on in Gaza/Israel/Palestine. I see that a few do.
@gawkimo Let me shove some rinky dink rockets up your ass after we're done with Hanukah tonight, dear.
Golda Meir said there will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jews. There will not be peace when one side wants the kids to go to Michigan and some of the other side ( not all) want their kids to become martyrs.
@sweetcaroline: Perhaps not turning Gaza into a ghetto would help too, dear. Also: Arabs don't give much of a crap about all this "Third Temple" bullshit -- all they know is land was taken for some Europeans after the West -- so guilty about allowing and empowering the slaughter of Jews -- decided to carve out a state for the survivors. For the record; I support Israel's right to exist, even if they act like assholes, and I think the Palestinians are insane. So shove that up your ass instead.
@gawkimo: By the way. If a kid throws a brick through your window, that doesn't give you moral high ground to beat up his family. Israel makes this mistake over and over again. Some militants kidnap two soldiers, so Israel rains illegal cluster bomblets (sold to them by the US in flagrant violation of world consensus on banned weapons that specifically target civilians) over half of Lebanon? I hate to sound like Dr. Phil, but "Hey Israel, how's that workin' out for ya?"
Ok, for the inbreds out there, here's an essay question: Let's say the rockets and bombs and kidnappings stop completely. In 50 words or less explain why Israel would continue to defend itself.
@wonky-tonk: I agree with Uncle Billy. Israel's only solution is a Final One for those people who claim Israeli land. That would suit Livni fine. She's insane.
I see a blogger/"journalist" trying to be an authority about topics a historian really should be talking about.
But anyway. Mainstream news media has lost all credibility in my eyes. I avoid watching it altogether. It makes me so pissed off. Why? To try to sum it up in one sentence; Because they misinform and sensationalize.
@SamCity: speaking as one with a PhD in history, don't call the historians in. That never settles anything. And, as a bonus, we'll have Pope John Peeps getting his mitre in a bunch about people choosing sides.
@SamThornton: The Pppe can blow me. That mutherfucker's* killed more Africans preaching against contraception than anyone has killed anyone in Israel and the occupied lands.
* By "that motherfucker" I mean the figurative Pope -- this ex-Nazi one and all the others that would prefer Africans die from AIDS as punishment for pre-marital sex than bring Catholicism into the 21st centruy by promoting the use of contraception as the greater good. But now we digress. . .
Nice. A news story that Owen admits isn't really news, a grotesque picture of a dead Hamas security agent (i've seen it elsewhere), just another tit for tat in the "Holy" Land during the Christmas season. Palestinians had been peppering Israel with rockets for a while in return for some previous Israeli offense, Israel makes threats, and then makes good. Next Hamas will shot someone or something, or maybe torch a school bus full of kids, because what the hell, it's Christmas. Just another crank of the bullshit grinder that is the Middle East.
Can we please get back to nasty people doing tacky things? This serious news shit is really bringing me down, and frankly, i don't need the help.
Tit = Launching little rinky-dink missiles with 10-mile ranges into homes in places like Sderot that damage homes but whose residents have been amply warned and protected by an Israeli state that actually cares about its citizens (as opposed to the Hamas government, which doesn't give a shit about its civilians and is little more than a two-bit gang of corrupt Arab big men assholes backed by pan-Arabist dictators with heads up their asses hoping to exploite the Palestinian cause so as to keep their own populaces form hacking their heads off).
Tat = Massive Israeli air assault (with weapons the US practically gives to them) with only general efforts to avoid killing too many civilian non-combatants: 200 dead, 700 wounded (so far). But by creating so much meat, Israel also creates more people that want it to be destroyed. Anything that kills non-combatants as collective punishment against strong men that have iron grips on these people and treat them like shit is bound to end up being a bad thing to do.
Answer: Happy New Year! Have another drink! I know I will. Chin chin! Thank God, Allah AND YHVH that I 'm not over there!
@gawkimo: Although your post is as insensitive as Hydroceph's. One murder doesn't really mean less than 50 even though it may seem to. And Israel's response is no less stupidly crude than the Palestinian provocation. Both sides thrive on blood.
@gawkimo: I take it you've never been to Sderot. Not a fun place to visit. I also wouldn't want to live there. Obviously the situation is not even close to as serious as it is in Gaza, but when your kids are walking home from school and you hear those bomb sirens go off, trust me, you're not rationalizing in your head going, "Well, those little rinky dink rockets really aren't that accurate, I'm not concerned." And considering what Israel is capable of, I'd argue that they have shown a little bit of restraint. Since when is war supposed to be fair?
That being said, the one thing I've ever enjoyed that Keith Gessen wrote was when he called the Israelis assholes and the Palestinians idiots. Idiots should learn not to provoke assholes. My major problem with Israel is it's failure to reward Gaza for the truce. True, it wasn't the most maintained truce, but if they give you six months of relative peace, you need to concede something, to show them it was worth it.
Oh and also, Owen, this was a remarkably stupid post. Were you trying to give us some big picture insight a la "Even though it's the holidays, people in the world are still mean and don't care!" Brilliant observation.
@Pope John Peeps II: Actually, one murder is indeed "less" than 50. One murder is the elimination of one human being. Fifty is the elimination of 50. You really don't want to go into he warped logic that one death equals the death of everyone. I recommend you weigh meat. Insensitive? Perhaps. On the other hand, saying killing 49 other people is morally equivalent to killing just one is kinda of insensitive to 49 other people who might disagree.
I've never been to anyplace in Gaza, either, but I suspect that mommies are concerned about their babies walking home from Palestinian schools, too.
And statistically speaking, those mommies should be more concerned, since their babies have a grater chance of dying. Mommies, babies. We're always appealing to those mommy/baby things aren't we? What about grown men? Don't they count? Ir is it like Bill Hicks says: "once you turn 18 you're off my love list."
@Pope John Peeps II: Insensitive? No, just tired of it. There are no easy answers, despite attempts to pull some out of the collective middle-eastern ass. What is to be gained by posting this story on this website? This isn't news, it isn't really fodder for the snark that goes on around here, and it doesn't lend itself to any kind of just solution.
Big bad Israelis launching well-armed military incursions, or the only democracy in the area trying to preserve its right to exist in the face of myriad and explicit attempts to wipe it off the map? Terrorists and dupes of regional powers who really don't want these people (Palestinians) on their soil targeting civilians in Israel, or a guerrilla response on the part of an elected government in the face of vastly superior fire power?
It's just another iteration of the circle-jerks of blood and violence in the region. I agree with you this far, yes, both sides have come to depend on the blood and violence. Without them, they have no raison d'etre. As Stalin said, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic, and this conflict is well into the realm of the statistical.
@Hydroceph: I'm just saying it's obvious you have a side chosen. And that one side is not somehow "good" just because you happen to sympathize with them.
@gawkimo: I'm just saying that a purposeful act of murder by one side is as bad an act as a larger military action by the other. Both have the intention of murder, regardless of the outcome. It's just that one has larger means and ability than the other.
@Pope John Peeps II: "hold water hard, oarsman!" screamed the plucky little cox'n.
I'm not sure you can say it's "obvious" i've "chosen" one side over the other. What is this, grade-school PE? "Coach, coach! I want the Israelis on my team, everyone knows how athletic Jews are!"
Big bad Israelis launching well-armed military incursions, or the only democracy in the area trying to preserve its right to exist in the face of myriad and explicit attempts to wipe it off the map? Terrorists and dupes of regional powers who really don't want these people (Palestinians) on their soil targeting civilians in Israel, or a guerrilla response on the part of an elected government in the face of vastly superior fire power?
That's choosing a side? Huh.
Insofar as it's pertinent, yes, i sympathize with the Israelis. Terrorists and suicide bombers do nothing for me but want to call in an air-strike to burn them out root and branch. That said, and thinking here too of American actions in Iraq, were i in the position of burying my young son because of this, i'd be hurling Molotov cocktails and strapping TNT to my chest, too.
As i said, there are no easy answers, and every individual death is a tragedy. All of them together on both side are still tragic, and the entire situation approaches an ancient Greek drama in the scale of the tragedy. Unfortunately, we have no deus ex machina to solve it. Hillary Clinton will have no more luck than Kindalousy Rice.
@Pope John Peeps II: "a purposeful act of murder by one side is as bad an act as a larger military action by the other."
Palestinian militants kidnapping soldiers does not equal the response of raining cluster bombs over half of Lebanon.
Some may believe that military response that kills civilian non-combatants is OK if those uppity civilians don't do something about the terrorists in their midst.
Some may also beleive that they have a right to target civilians on land they say was stolen from them.
Some beleive the land didn't belone to anyone, therefore it was there for the taking.
That's what the British said when they started taking land in North Ameirca. The Native Americans didn't claim the land the way Western mentalities claim land, with flags and nations, but they nevertheless lived on it and farmed and otherwise had ownership of it until a superior military force pushed them off of it, labeled rebels as terrorists, and target them and their families for annihilation each time they rose up and fought, sometimes doing bad things themselves (like scalping settlers).
And when the Indians fought back, sometimes killing inncent civilians, they were labeled terrorists and massacres by a superior military force. Eventually they were relegated to reservations to live in poverty until they submit by being culturally broken to integrating with the dominant society.
12/29/08
Vapid.
12/29/08
12/28/08
12/27/08
Golda Meir said there will be peace when the Arabs love their children as much as they hate the Jews.
There will not be peace when one side wants the kids to go to Michigan and some of the other side ( not all) want their kids to become martyrs.
12/28/08
12/28/08
12/28/08
12/27/08
12/27/08
12/28/08
12/27/08
But anyway. Mainstream news media has lost all credibility in my eyes. I avoid watching it altogether. It makes me so pissed off. Why? To try to sum it up in one sentence; Because they misinform and sensationalize.
12/27/08
12/27/08
12/27/08
* By "that motherfucker" I mean the figurative Pope -- this ex-Nazi one and all the others that would prefer Africans die from AIDS as punishment for pre-marital sex than bring Catholicism into the 21st centruy by promoting the use of contraception as the greater good. But now we digress. . .
12/27/08
Can we please get back to nasty people doing tacky things? This serious news shit is really bringing me down, and frankly, i don't need the help.
12/27/08
12/27/08
Tit = Launching little rinky-dink missiles with 10-mile ranges into homes in places like Sderot that damage homes but whose residents have been amply warned and protected by an Israeli state that actually cares about its citizens (as opposed to the Hamas government, which doesn't give a shit about its civilians and is little more than a two-bit gang of corrupt Arab big men assholes backed by pan-Arabist dictators with heads up their asses hoping to exploite the Palestinian cause so as to keep their own populaces form hacking their heads off).
Tat = Massive Israeli air assault (with weapons the US practically gives to them) with only general efforts to avoid killing too many civilian non-combatants: 200 dead, 700 wounded (so far). But by creating so much meat, Israel also creates more people that want it to be destroyed. Anything that kills non-combatants as collective punishment against strong men that have iron grips on these people and treat them like shit is bound to end up being a bad thing to do.
Answer: Happy New Year! Have another drink! I know I will. Chin chin! Thank God, Allah AND YHVH that I 'm not over there!
12/27/08
12/27/08
That being said, the one thing I've ever enjoyed that Keith Gessen wrote was when he called the Israelis assholes and the Palestinians idiots. Idiots should learn not to provoke assholes. My major problem with Israel is it's failure to reward Gaza for the truce. True, it wasn't the most maintained truce, but if they give you six months of relative peace, you need to concede something, to show them it was worth it.
Oh and also, Owen, this was a remarkably stupid post. Were you trying to give us some big picture insight a la "Even though it's the holidays, people in the world are still mean and don't care!" Brilliant observation.
12/27/08
12/27/08
I've never been to anyplace in Gaza, either, but I suspect that mommies are concerned about their babies walking home from Palestinian schools, too.
And statistically speaking, those mommies should be more concerned, since their babies have a grater chance of dying. Mommies, babies. We're always appealing to those mommy/baby things aren't we? What about grown men? Don't they count? Ir is it like Bill Hicks says: "once you turn 18 you're off my love list."
12/27/08
12/27/08
Big bad Israelis launching well-armed military incursions, or the only democracy in the area trying to preserve its right to exist in the face of myriad and explicit attempts to wipe it off the map? Terrorists and dupes of regional powers who really don't want these people (Palestinians) on their soil targeting civilians in Israel, or a guerrilla response on the part of an elected government in the face of vastly superior fire power?
It's just another iteration of the circle-jerks of blood and violence in the region. I agree with you this far, yes, both sides have come to depend on the blood and violence. Without them, they have no raison d'etre. As Stalin said, one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic, and this conflict is well into the realm of the statistical.
12/27/08
@gawkimo: I'm just saying that a purposeful act of murder by one side is as bad an act as a larger military action by the other. Both have the intention of murder, regardless of the outcome. It's just that one has larger means and ability than the other.
12/27/08
I'm not sure you can say it's "obvious" i've "chosen" one side over the other. What is this, grade-school PE? "Coach, coach! I want the Israelis on my team, everyone knows how athletic Jews are!"
Big bad Israelis launching well-armed military incursions, or the only democracy in the area trying to preserve its right to exist in the face of myriad and explicit attempts to wipe it off the map? Terrorists and dupes of regional powers who really don't want these people (Palestinians) on their soil targeting civilians in Israel, or a guerrilla response on the part of an elected government in the face of vastly superior fire power?
That's choosing a side? Huh.
Insofar as it's pertinent, yes, i sympathize with the Israelis. Terrorists and suicide bombers do nothing for me but want to call in an air-strike to burn them out root and branch. That said, and thinking here too of American actions in Iraq, were i in the position of burying my young son because of this, i'd be hurling Molotov cocktails and strapping TNT to my chest, too.
As i said, there are no easy answers, and every individual death is a tragedy. All of them together on both side are still tragic, and the entire situation approaches an ancient Greek drama in the scale of the tragedy. Unfortunately, we have no deus ex machina to solve it. Hillary Clinton will have no more luck than Kindalousy Rice.
12/28/08
Palestinian militants kidnapping soldiers does not equal the response of raining cluster bombs over half of Lebanon.
Some may believe that military response that kills civilian non-combatants is OK if those uppity civilians don't do something about the terrorists in their midst.
Some may also beleive that they have a right to target civilians on land they say was stolen from them.
Some beleive the land didn't belone to anyone, therefore it was there for the taking.
That's what the British said when they started taking land in North Ameirca. The Native Americans didn't claim the land the way Western mentalities claim land, with flags and nations, but they nevertheless lived on it and farmed and otherwise had ownership of it until a superior military force pushed them off of it, labeled rebels as terrorists, and target them and their families for annihilation each time they rose up and fought, sometimes doing bad things themselves (like scalping settlers).
And when the Indians fought back, sometimes killing inncent civilians, they were labeled terrorists and massacres by a superior military force. Eventually they were relegated to reservations to live in poverty until they submit by being culturally broken to integrating with the dominant society.
Such is history!