<![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too - Gawker Comments]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too - Gawker Comments]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Um, Franzen IS a populachero writer. That was one of the most annoying books written by a member of my generation: a loosely based memoir of a guy from the midwest who goes to New York and then is embarrassed and a pretentious asshole to his Middle American family. It's a crime to put his name and Garcia Marquez's name together -- like adding lemon juice to cottage cheese. GGM wrote about life; Franzen wrote about his own pathetic little self-absorbed life.

I was being sarcastic. Reviewing chic lit as a serious genre is like reviewing Hallmark greeting cards as poetry. Those books may be fun to read, but they're like Barbi dolls for adult women. IMO.

gawkimo

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @gawkimo: good point. I think the Times should at least save some space for popular writers since they're selling so much. But Oprah --honestly, Oprah is all about populism. That's why her attempts to class things up with Franzen, Marquez et al are opposed on both sides of the aisle -- by the highbrow and the lowbrow.

The basic assumption is that the Times writes about books if they're "important" enough. What I find annoying is that the Times thinks it is highbrow (New York Review of Books) while in fact it is just your basic middlebrow mess of drive-by learned references and facile unthinking 'analyses.' See the Styles section. They're not above writing about trucker hats -- though they convinced themselves they were, thus resulting in a story three years after the trend. Really the Times culture/life/food coverage is about stupid overweaning generalizations, lightly supported bloviations about how their own person experiences are indicative of the state of society for all of us, and a great big old soupcon of "I bet you can't spell this". They're just tone-deaf. Not only do they not know who the reader is, they don't who they are. Weiner is right about that.

cassandra

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Not that I don't think the Times has its head up its butt at times, but why is it that whenever some hoi polloi populachero writer (or artist or cultural critic) for the masses complains that s/he hasn't received attention from the national press it becomes evidence of a vast liberal elitist conspiracy against the likes of decent God-fearing' re-glar 'Mericans like you and I?

Why does Ms. Weeeener care that she's not lavished with praise in the Book Review section of the Times?

I loved her more recent post complaining that Oprah jilted her by recommending Gabriel Garcia Marquez. For shame! Out with the old; in with the new! We don't need no steenkeeing Garci Marquez when we have all these contemporary writers to replace him!

What a bunch of fucking poser elitists.

gawkimo

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I don't see the problem? She's saying that the Times is out of touch with everything in our current culture. And...yeah, they are.

When I read the Times's culture coverage, I think of middle-aged dinner parties populated with self-righteous goons, die-hard fans of 'Annie Hall' who never left the 70s behind and think that upstart Meg Ryan is so sweetly entertaining! Although darling of course they wouldn't admit it in mixed company. To the outside reader, the food/styles/arts/dining/culture staff seems to be largely made up of bitter snobbish snappish poseurs who think flowery prose and overlong articles mean that they can write. I picture all their office parties being some idiot journalistic version of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf.

cassandra

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @Trixie from Toronto: i second that. nice work josh. he fucking nailed it.

and although i've never read any of jennifer weiner's books, i somehow stumbled across this just before i moved to nyc in june of 02 and found it helpful advice...

[www.jenniferweiner.com]

i even emailed her after reading it and she responded with a sweet and very detailed personal note that i still have today. i'll never forget that.

the cajun boy

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @emily: Bravo to Josh, then. Every time I read it I appreciate it just a little bit more -- he really captured the pretentiousness of the restaurant review.

Trixie from Toronto

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @rocknrollunicorn: I'm going out on the ledge with you. I read some of her books years ago, when Sex and the City was setting new "standards" of how women supposedly act, and her books weren't bad.

I liked that her characters were smart, competent and seemingly normal. The shoe-crazy character in one of her books wasn't obsessed with them because she was mildly retarded like Carrie Bradshaw, but because it was the only designer thing she could really wear because she was overweight. I don't get the whole shoe obsession, so that was an explanantion that finally made some sense.

That said, she's not a great writer. But in the context of the time of SATC and Bridget Jones, she was better than a lot of them.

I have no defense however for "snark spot." Sounds like a G spot for the jaded and ironically challenged.



VoxPopuli

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Because every NYT reader wants to know what groundbreaking sociological trends are chronicled in a smutty Bridget Jones knock-off.

And this Olive Grove place sounds fantastic. Where in the East Village is this undiscovered gem?

Mo MoDo

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @jupiterspaw: Agreed. It was so pleasing when she finally got a book deal some years back and swept out of Philly on a wave of self-satisfaction. Go, girl, indeed.

MadameEducatrix

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> If that slag is snarky then I'm turning in my union card.

AttorneyatLoL

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @SoLastYear: I hate failed Caucasians. What happened, did he get a tan that wouldn't go away?

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @emily: Did you go fly-fishing with James Frey this weekend? Because this whole crazy thing has snowballed out of control, and now Oprah would like a word with you.

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @SoLastYear: Awesome. I'd forgotten Nasty-Nasdijj, the third Stooge in the recent fake-author trifecta.

VenusCloacina

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Anybody else notice that the post 3 above Weiner's was from Tim Barrus aka "Nasdijj", the fake Native American who wrote a fake memoir about his fake foster son who died of AIDS, but who was really a failed Caucasian gay porn writer from Wisconsin? (No joke; google "navahoax".)

NYT book reviews sure do bring out the bad writers.

SoLastYear

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @Trixie from Toronto: it was Josh! The only good thing in any of my posts today was actually written by Josh. How depressing.

Emily Gould

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @TedSez: It's an eloquent rant, but I was more impressed by Emily's imaginary Frank Bruni Olive Garden review. Brilliant.

Trixie from Toronto

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> One weekend in a sweat lodge with Jonathan Lethem would show her what a "hot-pink hell" really is. When your only fashion statement is made with a loincloth it becomes painfully obvious who is a writer and who is an "Author". (Or if Lethem's unavailable, how about a cage match with Wendy Lesser? You know, if you'd rather swing that way. I'm sure Anna Quindlen would be happy to be the ref.)

TripMcCane

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Well, I'm gonna admit. I like her books. They are better than most "chick lit" (which, yes, is a "genre" name I loathe). I have reviewed some REALLY, really bad ones. It seems as though, these days, every young woman who has lived in new york thinks we want to read about her 23rd, 24th, or 25th year spent living in the big city.

I alternate between reading 'literature' and reading books that simply entertain, compel and amuse. And stuff in between. If that makes me a total pleb, so be it. I mean, on the one hand I guess it is the NY Times and it's elite and such. On the other hand, I prefer reading the Books section of the Chicago Tribune, which is more representative of the mixture I'm interested in.

rocknrollunicorn

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @gonzosmom: If you're doing it right, dear, it already has.

RollsRoycehead-on

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @venuscloacina: Exactly. I mean, Weiner is genre fiction, of the romance type. Genre fiction is not intended to be great art, although sometimes it turns out to be (like Jane Eyre, as some of the other commenters noted). The Times reviews other genres (true crime, mystery, sci fi), so why not romance? Or conversely, why review any of them?

TwoScoops

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @VenusCloacina: Exactly. The problem is that Weiner is convinced that, because she's sold a lot of books, she's a great writer. A while ago I read in her blog that she had tried to submit something to The New Yorker and was shocked (outraged!) because she'd been turned down. Jesus. The New Yorker.

Danielle Steel has sold about 500 million copies of her novels. I guess, according to Weiner, that makes her deserving of winning the Nobel Prize.

midtown43

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @VenusCloacina:

Every movement starts with a single step...

Find a way for Kakutani to fit both "dick-lit" and "limn" into an opening paragraph, send it to her to use free of charge, and we're off!

City_Dater

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> On the one hand, Weiner writes semiliterate potboilers. On the other hand, so do lots of guys, and they're rarely slapped with the "dick-lit" label.

Even when they should be. Because, you know, women worrying about their love lives and feeling inauthentic and buying lots of things identified by their brand names is "trash"--men doing the same thing is "groundbreaking" and "a distinctive new voice" and all the other blather I see about such novels.

VenusCloacina

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @midtown43: I agree with your genre and labelling critique: many male writers produce what would be called "Chick lit" if they were women (Nick Hornby). But maybe there is or was a marketing genre it would be fair to call "Let's turn Cosmopolitan into a novel!

And a number of authors bending over frontwards to meet the demand.

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> This particular chick lit author went to my university (undergrad) and our alumni magazine covers her rather frequently. Better than most of us career women get. She should really just stop. She is propegating the myth passed on to every sorority girl that it is her god-given right to have the most fabulous everything, and then get a sugar daddy on top of it, just be being a well dressed drunk.

I'm not bitter at all.

jennilyn

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I would have thought her response was hilarious if it had been only the first and last paragraph. The magic of editing!

Meanmllemustard

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @gonzosmom: Word. And those madwomen in the attic novels are still a great read. A good portion of the former market for those novels is no longer educated enough to read those novels so they read shit by Jennifer Weiner. She can laugh her way to the bank and I guessthat's her point, which is hardly a new one. Also, it is a fine line between romance novels and her novels and some of the crap coming out of some MFA programs. Yup. And shoes are nice. I like shoes too. Whatever. Good luck with your demons.

(I'm thinking that "Good luck with your demons" is what I'm going to wish people for the holidays this year. Perhaps I'll develop a line of cards...)

shesaidwhat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I've read two of Weiner's books and checked her blog a few times, and I don't get why she's so angry all the time. She's a very mediocre writer, who has somehow (pact with Dick Cheney? Sorry, I meant the Devil) managed to become a bestselling author and have one of her novels turned into a major motion picture.

And my opinion of her abilities --or lack thereof-- has nothing to do with the genre she writes. I hate the "chick lit" label in the first place, because it's misogynist. Men who write about love, relationships, sex and dating don't get stuck with any dumb labels.

There are plenty of so-called "chick-lit" authors who are actually very good. Jennifer Weiner is just not one of them.

midtown43

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @picardia: Actually, if you go back to the 19th century newspapers and look at the popular literature of the day, it overwhelmingly consists of bad books the titles and authors of which you wouldn't recognize (unless they happened to help start the Civil War). A lot of what we consider to be the books worth reading from that era were not popular at all then, including Moby-Dick, though Melville's first two seafaring yarns, which were quite simple, topped the charts. I think there is a tendancy to mistake what we are told is serious literature--or what is marketed as such--for writing that actually is serious--or even not-so-serious, but simply good.

I think there are a half dozen tall, pale, men in their 40s that we are told are the "serious writers" of our era. I don't buy it. I think Deborah Eisenberg has them beat. Throw in Nancy Drew, and your criteria are satisfied, too!

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I got one of her books ("Good in Bed") for my wife, expecting it be more than just chick lit. I was wrong. It's modestly entertaining, but it's not anything approaching literature.

Life is so rough selling your books to Hollywood and having Cameron Diaz star in the movie.

econdave

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @picardia:
Try a side of Jose Saramago. He's got it all.

gonzosmom

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I'm with TedSez. I think that's hilarious, and that JW's more right than wrong about the hypocrisy of the literary world at this point.

And to touch on your point, A Tip of the Hat, there was a time when serious literature knew how to be popular, too. 19th century classics have ghosts and whaling ships and hidden passageways and murders and sensational trials and emotional confessions and, occasionally, insane first wives locked in the attic. 21st century "serious literature" is about professors in Connecticut contemplating divorce and fretting over tenure.

picardia

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I'm sure having a last name like Weiner doesn't help in the whole "being taken seriously" department.

sexbot

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Is her last name Weiner or Whiner?

rainbrain

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @SlightlyLessDeliciousNoise: She just wants a Nobel Prize for Chick Lit to be established. Is that a crime?

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @emily: Thanks for letting me know.

Wait, does this mean I'm gay? And, if so, do I need better clothes?

Anyway, my real point was in my 2nd post: @atipofthehat

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Sweet jesus christ. How many times are artists going to pretend to care about this argument? Didn't The Who Sell Out come out like three decades ago? "Chick lit" is Avon romance for 20-somethings with too much disposable income, who have moved right past your cultural debates into consumerist debates re: appropriate clothing and accessory combinations. Stop this fakery and obsessive posturing, the grave's been dug and filled.

SlightlyLessDeliciousNoise

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> OF COURSE she's right. But that does not excuse the wide proliferation of books-for-women (!) that are so mind-numbingly, shit poor they are not only insult women, but also HUMAN BEINGS. Just try to read one. Pick up any book with a picture of a high-heeled slut balancing on a martini glass filled with watches, or diapers. You'll feel like you clubbed yourself over the head and put ice picks through your eyes. Unfortunately, I don't think many women are reading this shit. Little girls are. Which is feeding that woefully harmful, monster-of-a myth that tells us shoes and Mr. Right is all a girl has to live for. It's a seductive myth, though. Shoes are so pretty and when you're 13, 14, 15, 28, men seem redemptive.

ohjulia

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I agree. And not only should the Times book critics pay more attention to chic lit because of its popularity, but the arts critic should review Thomas Kincade's (Painter of Light!) work because every old Christian lady in America owns one so it must be good and relevant and worthy of praise.

gawkimo

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Having grown up there, I can testify that nothing churns out crazy ladies more than the Philly suburbs. Welcome to the Main Line, bitch!

jupiterspaw

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @emily: It was more Amanda Hesser. From Bruni we want to hear that the Olive Garden is like "the Tarragon Tonys"

SchmatSchmaymon

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @atipofthehat: The Bruni-channeling was a Josh pinch-hit.

Emily Gould

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @gonzosmom: If you write it, they will cum.

BalknChain

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> The sassy preggo wins this round, methinks. She may be crazy, but she's mostly right, and at least her brother doesn't edit Slate.

hortense

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Since apparently what people what to read about is Julia Allison, I guess we can expect laudatory notice on the part of Emily when that New York article drops.

ninety_nine

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> What Olive Garden do you go to? I've never gotten poppyseeds on my breadsticks.

LilaFowler

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> BUT...

"what people actually want to read about" is not a valid criterion for serious writing. A subject in which you think you are not at all interested, written about by a brilliant writer, becomes more than interesting. The intelligence and skill and art with which a subject is handled is the most important thing.

In fact, it is often the worst and most pretentious writers who try and tie themselves to a big subject, or a momentous trend, and let that subject or trend do the work.

9/11 plus texting!

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I would suggest her new book be titled "A Snobs Guide to Chic Lit".

Queen of the Passive Aggressives

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> @Mr. 60%: Maroon 5, Natalie Imbruglia, Fleetwood Mac, John Mayer, and The Compleat Works of Kelly Clarkson.

the_mayoress

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> She lost me at "nonetheless." Kate Betts' review of The Devil Wears Prada is one of the best things ever. Also - who did Maureen Dowd leave stranded when she "pulled up the ladder" -- writers like Jennifer Weiner?

ambitious heckler

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Masturbation doesn't sell?

Well, I guess that leaves me with a full trash can.

gonzosmom

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Poor girl needs to relax... what she needs is a nice Cosmo mixed by a hot bartender followed by a day of shoe shopping with the girls. What bills? LOL!!1!

Products Will Save Me

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> God forbid a writer should make the decision to feed herself and her family with popular fiction. Even Beethoven did folksong arrangements.

iplaudius

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Yeah? What's with the Times?
I'm dying to know what's on her ipod.


Mr. 60%

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> If I adore the "earthy wheatiness" of Emily's work here, does that make me a sycophant.

I will build her a higher pedestal, and name it Freedom.

atipofthehat

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Am I the only one who sees that as a beautifully written, perfectly detailed passage? I'm looking forward to her bitter yet hilarious memoir, which will be reviewed by the Times and featured on "Oprah."

TedSez

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I'd do her. I love crazy.

paulrevere

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Cute shoes indeed... but apparently, it can't buy you a good colorist.

the_mayoress

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I think Jim's comment following hers sums it up pretty nicely.

Products Will Save Me

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> "I put the tip in my mouth, swirling my tongue over the poppy seeds."

That covers her relationship with Jakob. 2,986 more words to go.

She_of_the_Socks

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> Waaah, waaah, waaah.

I Don't Get It

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> I just like that Jennifer Weiner makes you think of bottomless vessels of Olive Garden food.

SchmatSchmaymon

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> What does this say about the prospects for my new "chick-lit" novel The Guy Took Her in Her Good Bed Shoes?

LolCait

]]> <![CDATA[Jennifer Weiner Wants To Have Her Cake And Eat It Too]]> But really, it's about the Art, so one should be willing to blow one's nose with a five rather than a twenty-dollar bill.

KarenUhOh

]]>