There is no judgment on my part for a woman who sleeps with a guy on the first date, the 50th date, or after locking eyes on the subway. My point was: from her account, it sounds as though he was satisfied with the course of their acquaintance. She was not.

Of course there's nothing wrong with the fact she chose to sleep with him on the 2nd date--but I think we can all generally acknowledge that it often doesn't bode well for a long-term relationship when we get to it so quickly without really knowing anything about each other.

You say he wasn't 'clear' with her about what he was looking for... but if she was going to end up being this vulnerable and hurt after sleeping with him quickly and having it turn out to be a fling, she should have protected her own feelings and waited until the situation was more clear one way or the other... rather than lashing out later because he didn't choose to get involved with her.

As women, we tend to get up in arms about how 'irresponsible' men are with our delicate feelings. Well, we have to be responsible for ourselves first. We're grown women.

Aren't we?

bunnywith

TheUpMyAssPlayers

My only issue is the "why did she sleep with him so quickly" according to the article she slept with him on the second date, not the first, and let's be frank, it takes Two to fuck. So why rip on J for sleeping with him in your opinion, fast, when Matthew did the same thing. Why is it the woman bears the brunt of your judgment only and not MC? Men can screw fast but when a woman does it she gets what she deserves? Come on. It's 2008 for christ sake!

Also, it might seem obvious to you and me because we've both screwed him, we know how the man operates, Julie didn't, and MC never made himself clear about what he was looking for. And that's where the hurt and the subsequent article comes in.

TheUpMyAssPlayers

I guess I'm just saying that what I wrote violated my own no-douchebaggery values, and is therefore regrettable. I'm entitled to that, no?

Besides--as I said, he didn't exactly try to pretend he was interested in a storybook romance (and neither was I). So as far as I was concerned, we both played fair.

Even reading Ms. Klausner's side of her story, it seems so obvious from the outset that he wasn't really after some Big Serious Thing. And if she was after that, why on earth did she go to bed with him so quickly? We women are certainly entitled to get our kicks too, but we've gotta take responsibility for our own actions.

Much as I wish we could, it turns out we can't have our cake and eat it too.

bunnywith

Ellabella

TrudyTruth

The douches here are the Julie Klausner and the NYT for not vetting the background of their writer, who has a history of vindictive public assaults on past lovers. Because the NYT did not know her agenda and past stalking, they allowed many hurtful and irrelevant and identifying details into the story. In libel law, identifying the person does not require actually naming them.

In old usenets posts (no longer available on Google groups) Ms. Klausner attempted to solicit emails from other women who had been "raped" by Norm McDonald (she was underage). Talk to men at the UCB, Conan, TMBG and you will might find others who can tell tales of similar vindictive behavior.

Oh, wait, no you won't, because guys don't tell stories like that, they are embarrassing. They are not for public consumption. And they change the perception of everyone in the community you hope to to do work in (it's a small world.)

For some reason or two, Julie has gotten a pass for this behavior (mostly because it does do more harm to speak about it) but hopefully it will not be forgiven anymore.

She says on her blog that her friends have been supportive of her putting yourself out there in such a personal way. Problem is, it's not her life she exposed, but that of a casual fling (that, as some pointed out, she instigated to sex well after she had been blown off) and his innocent son. She is not a writer, she is a predator. And the NYT should be ashamed for publishing it.

TrudyTruth

TheUpMyAssPlayers

TheUpMyAssPlayers

TheUpMyAssPlayers

He's not a bad boy.

bunnywith

In old usenets posts (no longer available on Google groups) Ms. Klausner attempted to solicit emails from other women who had been "raped" by Norm McDonald (she was underage). Talk to men at the UCB, Conan, TMBG and you will might find others who can tell tales of similar vindictive behavior.

Oh, wait, no you won't, because guys don't tell stories like that, they are embarrassing. They are not for public consumption. And they change the perception of everyone in the community you hope to to do work in (it's a small world.) You have been safe until now, I hope that people will not forgive this sort of behavior anymore.

You say on your blog that your friends have been supportive of you putting yourself out there in such a personal way. Problem is, it's not your life you exposed, but that of your casual fling and his innocent son. You are not a writer, you are a predator.

TrudyTruth

And this is coming from a girl who's been blown off by a lollapalooza's worth of musicians.

bammy

SarahHeartburn

As for Mr. Caws, one can only assume that he was guided in his decision by having good chemistry and timing with another and deterred from you by your obvious lack of character and discretion.

Badly done, woman.

BernieKing

+ Watch video

kthnx

The difference in my experience with him: I didn't get angry, fer Chrissakes! OK, he's a touring indie frontman--not exactly relationship material to start with--and with me, at least, he made no pretense of being a together person. He was totally up front about being a hot mess (and oh yeahhhh, he is).

We had a couple of romps and some amusing e-mail banter, and it faded away into oblivion, just as it should have. No blame, no shame.

He's an adorable, messy, talented, sexy little boy who's making no pretense otherwise. Would you get angry at a zebra for having stripes?

Finally--maybe I'm spoiled, but I have to take exception to TheUpMyAssPlayer's assessment that he has a huge, um, member. Seriously?

bunnywith

museormyth

TheUpMyAssPlayers

TheUpMyAssPlayers

triplethreat

@Bunsy: At first I thought the same thing, but then I remembered it was a "Free to Be... You and Me" DVD. I think that's worth the recovery effort. The earrings, eh, I'd have to see a photo to decide.

millwhistle

Carol Gardens

And why did she keep calling him, agreeing to see him, etc? She should have written off the earrings, cds, whatevs.

Bunsy

Clare

o-line

DonPardoCalrissian

Silverbackne

Oh yeah, against my own best interests, I exclusively date immature, attractive musicians. Can I be a NYTimes scribe?

VeinsLikeGardenHoses

Unfun

She'd don the catsuit and kick the crap out of Mr. King-of-his-Neighborhood.

Seriously tho' -- sounds like dude was pretty much as advertised and chickie got what she signed on for.

bugupit

teemo

Jezebabe

@DonPardoCalrissian: Thank you! You see my point. Somewhere along the line it became the standard to ignore someone if you weren't interested. It also became the norm to text/email someone when you wanted a date, or wanted to end a short-term relationship. Pick up the fucking phone to ask me out! Meet in person if you're going to dump me. Be decent.

Unfun

But seriously, this article validates my experience that you should NEVAR date lead singers or guitar players. Stick with the rhythm section if you want less ego, less drama and a lot more fun! (I am available for further counseling should anyone require it.)

Hez

@plasticaisle: thanks!

triplethreat

DonPardoCalrissian

ding ding ding!

I lost track of many times I've been asked, one way or another, "where are you going to take me to impress me on our first date?". Ummmm, how about nowhere? How about we get to know each other? Not that I don't love to impress someone I'm into for no good reason at all, but random potentials?

It's not really much different for guys in NYC than the girls here moaning about the dating scene. Constant games and texts, and last minute "oh I have to meet friends" (meaning "I got a better offer"), etc.

Rules of engagement are: no one wins. Now go have fun kids!

[current.com]

teemo

Bravo.

plasticaisle

triplethreat

Mediahohoho

Yeah, dating life sucks for women in New York. And Madrid. And my friends in London, Paris, Chicago...say the same. DATING sucks. (I've actually never really dated. I seem to hook up with people I've met through work or friends, and got to know first.

The guy seems self involved. Good god, a rock musician who isn't the world's best boyfriend? Honey, grow up. Or rather, experiences like this are how you grow up. Sorry you got hurt.

But I don't think it warrants a "Modern Love" column with enough details to out the other party.I read the thing Saturday morning and when I got to the end, I thought the story was posted with a glitch. Why was the end missing? Oh, that was the end.

And what the hell is wrong with a walk around the neighborhood? First dates like that are a good way to really scope out how someone is. Maybe he picked up on the fact that she was pissed off at not being treated to a first date with "plans", and decided to treat her like the spoiled girl she seems to be.

SarahHeartburn

I'll have pics from the Josh Ritter show up on my flickr page later today, and I have the Nada Surf pics up.
[www.flickr.com]

suburbancowboy

DonPardoCalrissian

suburbancowboy

I didn't make it happen. I asked a friend who was a performer there (the only reason I know an embarrassing amount about the UCB) if it ever came up in classes or practices about the potential long term weakness of such an approach. It made me uncomfortable to watch.

So you know, I know you've already written your reply, but I am talking about the writer's weakness as a performer of comedy and nothing else. I've said maybe eight words to her, and only then it was because I was talking to the same people she was. I only made my original comment because I thought it was super lazy to bother to figure out who the musician was and not even bother to Google Julie and link to her as well, since they both float in that same tier of performer hell that is I-almost-recognize-your-name.

ninety_nine

Sulky Girl

@City_Dater: And do you know how many single women in NYC seem to date only the marginally famous and the developmentally challenged? These people feed off each other. Not to Dworkin-out but when women stop enabling this behavior it'll stop. Grown-ups of either sex are very hard to find in this city.

DonPardoCalrissian

sassypants

And anyone attacking this woman has no fucking idea what it's like to be female and date in NYC. I thought the piece was brutally honest, if tritely written, and I could definitely relate to it. He seems like a douche. Most of us ladies have been there, liking a douche against our better judgment and getting burned, and feeling worse about getting burned because it's by a douche and we actually care. That whole text he sent her at the end about dating someone else was uncalled for. She doesn't need to know bro, just say it won't work out and move on.

Is it too much to ask for a guy you fuck to call or even email/text after to tell you they had a lovely time, even if they admit that they don't think it should go any further? Somewhere along the line, men like this forgot how to treat women, and because he's "cute" and in some asshat band that's popular, he gets lots of pussy, thus reinforcing his idea that he is somehow worthy of it all. He's not.

Rant over! Dignity gone. Single for life? Who fucking cares.

Unfun

Mediahohoho

Mediahohoho

jrhys

bytememehard

jrhys

On a slightly different note, if you've only been jerked around by ONE immature musician in your life, I don't think you should be allowed to make money writing articles about it. It's a bit like those college kids who spend a night out on the library lawn to "experience" being homeless, then write an editorial about it for the school paper. It may be some big novelty for you, lady, but for some of us it's a way of life!!

PeterAbe1ard

Excusado

ninety_nine

BadUncle

iantenna

Unfun

BadUncle

mallorykeaton

GrumpyMcGillicutty

Sheila

hammerimissu

lisaraine

carnevale

lisaraine

BadUncle

The determination of whether he is a true douchebag or just epicly spastic is unclear to me in this particular example.

In any case, you straight people fascinate me with your mating customs.

Gregoire

TheUpMyAssPlayers

bytememehard

Yeah, they're still a band and they've sold out shows for years as a result of their last three (stunning) discs, Let Go, The Weight is a Gift, and Lucky. I have no idea if the piece is really about Matthew or what Matthew's dating proclivities might be. But not having heard their post-"Popular" stuff--even if you hated it, that's fine, *but you haven't even heard it*--indicates that you need to put down the knitting and Sudoku and get out more.

Soymocha

plasticaisle

I attended a wedding a few years ago where Matthew Caws officiated -- he'd been ordained just for the occasion. After the ceremony, he got on stage with the groom's band and they played a great set. He is actually quite dreamy.

I Don't Get It

WholeLottaLenya

whoneedslight

Unfun

BadUncle

shelbyC

@City_Dater: I'm with you, love. I've said it before in so many words. Dating in NYC, sucky, kill myself, for fuck's sake, etc.

Unfun

bytememehard

[vids.myspace.com]

Carol Gardens

bytememehard

nozzle

Sigh. It's not too early for a drink, is it?

City_Dater

Julie Klausner, C-List UCB performer? That's such a perfect match. She could always be counted on to do a whore bit because she was marginally more attractive than the rest of the women there. Now she's spinning all the femilady comedy shit (not that I disagree; watching women play the slut angle for cheap laughs from desperate NYU frosh boys is pretty gross). If anything this the most 'water finds its own level' fameball matchup since Jakob and Julia.

ninety_nine

YourGoldKeith

ninety_nine

Ed

If he's "cute", then I'm George Clooney.

VirusWithShoes

shortagee

Phyllis Nefler

SarahHeartburn

McMurphy

Unfun

mathnet

haunts

Unfun

ExecutiveIntern

mathnet